Scurvydog
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Posts posted by Scurvydog
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1 hour ago, swarmofseals said:
The main reason to do this is activation efficiency. If you're attacking a big monster or large enemy unit it's much better to kill it all at once rather than merely damage it and then allow it to attack back.
It can not be stated enough, especially in the current meta, that overwhelming output is key for Ironjawz to trigger smashing and bashing. MSU is good for board control, but very inefficient for command point usage, violent fury and smashing and bashing triggering.
If you buff up 6 gruntas with a warchanter and they go fight and say lose 2 models. The remaining 4 that are still buffed will still be a major threat, while a 3 man unit getting cut down to 1 is no longer a problem.
I plan to run bloodtoofs with 2 krushas and 2x6 gruntas and a unit of brutes (perfect for sending into 1 wound char units on objectives). This creates maximum efficiency and makes it much more likely to snowball the opponent army with smashing and bashing.
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1 hour ago, kurtces said:
I'm absolutely agree. Coherency, charge MW to 1 inch and being able to use three times the same command with 1 CP (AoA, Mighty) is enough to use small units of 3.
A larger unit is still nice for just weight of attacks to trigger smashing and bashing, as soon as 1 dies coherency issues also goes away. If playing bloodtoofs you can also pile in or move at the end of the combat phase to restore coherency on larger units, so there are some options here which is nice.
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17 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:
Thx its amazing , really and you are not forced to do that. So If u dont need for exemple use all out defence again i can use another command ability! I love that interaction!!:)
Yes, just not from that megaboss of course, but it does allow you to look how the phase goes along and keeps your opponent guessing if you will be using a free AoA or AoD instead (this costs a CP though as it is not the same command the megaboss issued i.e. AoA). With 2 mawkrushas you can issue AoA and AoD from each, and then simply pick and choose as you go along
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Just now, Tizianolol said:
Thx @Scurvydog, about redoploy what happen? I use I on a unit within 9" , if another unit is not wothin 9 can I still move the 2nd unit? Thx again!:)
If only 1 of your units is within 9" you can only move that. However if later in the same enemy movement phase they move a unit within 9" of another one of your units, you can then issue redeploy again is normal for free.
You do not issue 3 of the same command at once. You simply are able to issue 3 of the same command in the same phase, where the 2nd and 3rd use are free, all other regular conditions apply. For all out attack for example that means you will use it on 1 unit that is chosen to attack for 1 CP. When a different of your units are chosen to attack later in the phase (and in range), you can at that point issue all out attack again to that unit, this time for 0 CP. Mawkrushas can issue 1 more for free than the boss on foot.
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2 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:
Apparently we can use all out attack/defence more then 1 times!!!:)
Yes, the same command is then just issued at any time during the phase, which avoids the entire trigger discussion. Just imagine he does it again later as a new issued command, it is just free and ignores the 1 of the same command is not allowed rule.
Only situation this is "worse" than the assumption before, is that if he issues lets say all out defence to himself first, then gets killed anyway, he would not be able to issue all out defence to other units later in the same phase of course.
Rend 2 for grunta hackas... damn it all my brutes and gruntas I got painted are with choppas, and my unpainted are with hackas... siiigh. 2" reach and rend 2 and +1 to MW charge by only trading 1 attack seems like almost a no brainer in most take all comers setups.
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Megaboss bellow ability updated in the APP from the new FAQ.
It now states you can issue the same command up to 3 times in the same phase. The 2nd and 3rd time will just not cost command points in the same phase.
So this was actually a nice fix to the rule that makes it entirely clear. It is quite cool too, as it creates even more options for redeploy for example as it does not trigger at once for up to 3 units, but can be spread out in the same phase after the first time.
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1. Playing Dadhammer is not a higher state of being and not caring about the game or rules is simply disrespectful unless otherwise agreed with your opponent.
2. Hating on new stuff does not make you cool. If only it was so easy...
3. Competitive AoS has many similarities to MTG, building a list is like a deck, you should not be able to win with whatever you want.
4. Adding on 3, TO's could look at MTG formats to spice up list building and play, while still in a competitive setting
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2 hours ago, Tizianolol said:
Guys today a strange thing happened. My opponent move stormstrike chariot 3" of my maw crusha. I redeploy 4" . He tryed to charge and miss. Can I try to charge even if I used redeploy? My oppo said not.. what do you think?
Sounds like a cheeky guy that did not want his chariot charged
This is exactly why Ironsunz are great, nothing stops you from using redeploy in his move phase, and then using the Ironsunz counter charge at the end of his charge phase.
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44 minutes ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:
Didn't see this posted here yet. Looks like a promising update.
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1 hour ago, PrimeElectrid said:
James Workshop bringing you nice models with mean FAQs
Must have been a massive issue to delay them for so long.
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On 10/16/2021 at 2:53 PM, Chase said:
I've lost 3 times now to my buddies Soulblight.
Belladoma
Vhordrai
Radukar the beast
Blood coven throne (general)
Necromancer
2x20 zombies
2x10 wolves (one is summoned)
I'm running Ironsunz
2xMBoMK. General, mighty Waaagh leader, Amulet & Fastun + Destroyer
2 WC
10 Brutes (sometimes 2x5)
2x5 ardboys
2x3 pigs
I've tried penetrating his castle. Getting through the screens turn 1 is essentially impossible. Then on his turn he debuffs the absolute ****** out of me. Never quite seen that much debuffing. Prince V then one shots MK.
I've tried letting him go first to set up the counter punch. It's a pretty strong game plan this way but by turn 3 the attrition war is lost against death.
What do you guys think? Any tips? It feels like Darksouls hardmode.
Combine the pigs into 1 unit as mentioned, buff them up with a warchanter. Vhordrai is the only model that can do decent damage in one go, but there is no way he should be able to one shot a Krusha with amulet, especially if you know he is coming and can finest hour.
You should be able to move around him as you please with mighty destroyer movement. Put the brutes forward, on a center objective if possible so you can engage his zombies if they go to cap, they be messin then and count for 0. If he charges them with his big guys, you counter charge. If you run 2 Krushas, 6 pigs and 10 brutes you got 4 strong hammers, put them decently close so no matter what he is left with a possible counter charge and be exposed.
Instead of mighty waaagh leader consider Mega bossy, if you can box him in fast that would be great and ensure your brutes and warchanters keep up with the krushas and gruntas.
Having a wizard would make little to no difference here, at be. Getting an unlikely unbind attempt is north worth cutting down either brutes or gruntas in half imo.
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7 minutes ago, feadair said:
The good thing about Imperatant is that you can bring him down immediately before the Annihilators, so there is no window of opportunity for the enemy to take him out before he does his thing. Also, your own Raptors/Judicators get to shoot before any charges, hopefully seriously reducing any incoming Unleash Hell.
But I do agree that the immobility of Annihilators after their initial Alpha strike is a big minus. They really have to earn (most of) their points on the turn they come down. Testing will be needed.
Yea I am not trying to say annihilators are bad, they hit like a ton of bricks and the built in mortal wounds from landing and charging and reroll charges is nice utility. Dropping in the imperatant with the annihilators is probably not the worst idea, so he can support them with commands, as they probably want to eat up a lot of command points for as long as they live. It also feels like Stormcast pay too many points for the support heroes to not use their decent attack profiles and saves to get stuck in with their units a bit...
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1 hour ago, feadair said:
Against this Grandhammer Annihilators do not have to come down on turn 1 and you not have to go first to use them effectively. They cannot really be disrupted (except by a battleplan that bans reserves). You do not need to spend the Translocate on them. They only have to succeed on the charge roll of 7 (since you obviously bring them with Imperatant), and get to reroll this without spending a command point.
The Imperatant is of course tougher than the battle mage, but he is a big points sink (nearly double) and can also be killed like the mage. I think there needs to be 2 units of annihilators for the imperatant to make up for his big cost. If you still have translocate there are now 300 pts invested into "delivery mechanisms", which is a big deal too.
If running 6 raptors, I also think using a 6 man unit of annihilators will end up with a list that does not do many scenarios well, once they are down there, they are effectively squishy Gotreks, that the opponent will simply seek to avoid and move away from, while being far easier to kill. An unleash hell from 30 sentinels would basically kill 400 pts, so even at 480 for 6 and 175 for imperatant, they would need even more support to even get into combat alive, that is a steep investment. The fulminators work better on their own, and at least with 10" move they can get around the board after their initial commitment if need be.
I am sure we will see some cool lists though, perhaps sending down Gardus from the sky to support them, although keeping up the 12" will be a narrow fit in that case.
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43 minutes ago, WarLadle said:
On the topic of the Christmas Battleforces, here are my guesses:
OrderWe're due for a Stormcast battleforce (they've not missed an odd numbered year so far).
I think Order will probably get a second battleforce too (they've gotten the most 'double slots' in history, and I could see either Chaos or Destruction missing out).
The only factions that have never received a force are CoS, Fyreslayers and Lumineth, and I think Lumineth are the likely candidate. New, but the first half is just about old enough, and hugely popular (seemingly, anecdotal for sure).
Chaos
No solid guesses, but maybe Nurgle? Hedonites are probably a bit too new, Beasts are maybe too old, and everyone else has gotten one semi recently (last 3 years) except Khorne. Maybe Khrone. Maybe nothing?
Death
I would expect either FEC or Ossiarchs, 50/50. Nighthaunt have gotten two boxes prior, including one last year, and Soulblight are just too new. FEC would make sense because they haven't ever received one, and are somewhat overlooked, but well liked as far as I can tell from the zeitgeist, meaning a battleforce could clear out some slow moving stock. Ossiarchs are just as plausible, as quite a new faction (but still old enough to get bundled) with a solid range.
Destruction
Either missing out, or Orruks. Given that they got 2 slots last year, I don't expect a repeat of Gitz or Ogors, and Behemat just don't really fit the battleforce box format. An Orruk box would supply some more 3rd edition codex units in mass, but I'm leaning toward Destruction missing out on a slot at all.
My guess for order is SCE, probably some of the new bad battleline units and chariot etc. They might tease the dawnbringer crusades to bring up some hype and sell a cities box.
Hedonites box could be likely and probably Bonereapers would make sense. Those would be my top 4 guesses at least.
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6 minutes ago, feadair said:
Annihilators with Grandhammers in the Sunday preview. From a competitive standpoint, these guys seem huge.
They are cool, but there just does not seem to be much reason to bring them compared to fulminators. Both units hit like a ton of bricks, especially on the charge, but with fulminators you get a unit that is still very mobile later on with over twice the movement and also more wounds per point.
The difference might be if translocate gets nerfed, then the imperatant and paladins might be the next thing for semi reliable alphas I guess, although I am more looking at a Ghur battle mage with wildform in that case I think. Will probably buy them though, they look awesome.
Vanquishers and Vigilors are so cool as well, but absolute garbage rules, such a shame.
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6 hours ago, feadair said:
Ben Johnson (of Warhammer Design Studio) currently 3-0 with this list at Warhammer World (40 players):
Lucky he is allowed to play without a FAQ 😛
This list seems like it will crumble to anything half decent in the current meta though. Try to engage a gargant army with this, do maybe 10 damage and then lose a unit of dracoths in return, repeat, while also not being able to contest any objective
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I am strongly eyeing the Stomper tribe, taker to count as 30 instead of 20 has done almost no difference for me in my games so far.
Stomper due to the super useless 3d6 charge and the reroll save artifact, having a stomper with that and a breaker with amulet adds so much survivability. Major problem is the stomper cant command himself though.
Idea is to have Stomper, Breaker, Kraken and 3 single mancrushers. Many objectives require spreading out odd places, like the vice, so the little ones allow the big ones to focus on what matters. Stomper allows to issue a 6" auto run if needed on all 3 small ones, to go whereever needed. They also provide something affordable to sacrifice, while comfortably still handling screens and chaff. In stomper they will also hurt anyone bringing 10+ units a lot more, making them highly efficient at killing horrors and such.
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1 minute ago, zilberfrid said:
I think you'd need more categories:
* Enjoyed as models for an army you don't want to collect
* Used as a "taster" to get a feel for an army before committing
* Used as hero, because the actual hero is more expensive than the team
* Used for alternate sculpts for hero and troops
* Used to play Underworlds
I have seen them used in all these manner except for Underworlds, nobody plays that around here, never seen it or tried it, but the models do appear in AoS games time and again.
Using the models as stand in heroes is quite common, like the FeC box is a nice supplement to make unit champions and courtiers that stand out. The Bonesplitterz team is good for a plastic Wurgog as well as the rest being mixed in, like a savage themed big waagh army, the big boys are good to supplement a converted brute squad.
Underworlds is the "could have been" category, so close yet so far. The new saurus warrior in the seraphon kit, even blood bowl got new saurus warriors, but none for AoS. Ghouls for FeC, cool new bonesplitterz, Mortek guard with bows, plastic chameleon skinks and the list goes on. Thinking about it, it all seems like one big tease to AoS players, "look how cool we could make these units that only got old/resin kits!", "Wow uncle GW! that is so cool! Does that mean you will release AoS kits later besides these 1 model kits?", "No Jimmy, enjoy your resin chameleon skinks or buy 20 underworld boxes for 32 EUR a piece. Come now, Uncle GW knows a great black market organ dealer".
Gallery of "Imagine if this was from AoS kits and not single models".
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3 hours ago, Freejack02 said:
A points hike I can understand, a warscroll rewrite would be saddening... especially since we really haven't even gotten to play with them yet. I hope they don't pull a KO Thunderers before the majority even get to test them out...
Yea also making a hike and also a warscroll change makes no sense, either change the warscroll to match the points, or change the points to match the warscroll... If they are made worse AND cost more points, well guess I save some money then. My hype for this release has gone down the drain anyway at this point. I would not be surprised if they increase points by 10-15% and also remove the hero phase move+charge, or even the entire hero phase movement all together.
If drakes get nerfed and translocate no longer works that leaves the book with a few power units and combos:
Main hammers: Fulminators, Longstrikes, Annihilators (2 handers)
Main combos: Relictor+Ghur battlemage with wildform +2 charge (far less reliable though...), Imperatant + annihilator deep strike, longstrike double tap + translocate.
Everything outside these units and combos will be significantly weaker in a competitive sense. I don't even want to get started on the cheesemonger list with 5 knight judicators and fox, lists like that are the embodiment of every single flaw in the game.
The only thing I sort of get in the unverified rumor, is the warlord menagerie trait. While I would like the dragon lists to actually be playable, having this trait just makes it so inefficient to use anything else. If you general is a dragon with that trait, taking a unit of dracoths for example is extremely inefficient when they do not benefit from -1 to be wounded, so making mixed lists is discouraged by this. If the trait is nerfed though and drakes get a point increase and warscroll nerf, the competitively viable dragon list has died before even reaching the tables.
I think this release was handled just about as bad as could be, full of frustration, confusion, uncertainty and worry, not feelings you want for what should be an exciting new release...
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1 hour ago, Tizianolol said:
Im very curious how GW consider megaboss anility to give ca to 3 units about all out attack or all out defence. Some people say you cant others say you can
Yea if GW does not release a FAQ soon I can't bring my Ironjawz to any of the November events I am currently signed up for, as there are only a couple of week to a cut off date on FAQ release, and with the pace and lack of communication going at at GW right now, I am very very worried... (All events require FAQd tomes around here)
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7 minutes ago, boyadventurer said:
We've got a clear view of the Stormdrake bases now in the bat rep. I think it's the 105mm, definitely smaller than the Chariot on the 120mm.
As they delayed this batrep a week... could it mean this sunday is the day?... nooo no no... hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
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9 hours ago, Boggler said:
This makes sense, as the mean-un is meant to help clear out screens. With Mega bossy the 2 MKs can get a bunch of Gruntas to follow them and just create absolute havoc in the enemy's lines right from the start. If anything gets nuked by impact hits or combat, the gruntas will just continue in, to tie stuff up.
It does rely on knowing exactly when and how to engage, outside of Waaagh the gruntas got trouble getting through tougher units with high saves, as they do not hit nearly as hard for the points as Brutes do, nor do they have the efficient staying power of ardboyz, so this is very much a finesse list. Positioning of the chanters will also be critical if going for a big engage, in order to have any steam the following turn.
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11 minutes ago, Beliman said:
Yes, I'm not saying otherwise.
My point wasn't that "other armies" don't have tp+movement, my point was that other armies are using that type of teleports as the main feature becuase that's what they do.
Look at @PrimeElectrid post above, appart from Nagash (didn't know that trick btw):
- Wind Spirit: It's their Trick, that's what they do. They are designed to do that (btw, I don't like that... same with Mannfred teleport....).
- KO Boats: An army that plays around that. Shooting and teleports. They don't have great dmg, no big rend (90% -1 rend with 4+ to hits...), no magic, no prayers, no monsters, etc...
- Kruleboyz: Their tricks are about that, a few one-per-battle shenanigans with some conditionals or artefacts/traits. That's their whole point, one big play and done (appart from their venom weapons).
- Living City trait: Exactly that, it's what their do, you take that subfaction because that DS.
And Stormcast that literally only has 1 noteable allegiance ability (except blowing up when they die) is to teleport form the heavens, thats what they do!
Is this some kind of fluff reasoning? If so I do not see how it is valid and how the lore does not support Stormcast to strike where needed, as that is exactly what they were intended to do by Sigmar himself. Outside the lore, there is no reason why they should not have such mobility. Ironjawz got great mobility army wide, not just as 1 trick, but overall so many cool options, yet Stormcast get TO blocked.
I don't buy it, and it seems petty actually, "darn those kids and their sigmarines, they get new rules? that will not stand in my halls!", most stormcast players have seen the types I am sure or talked with them. Can only see this as being bias based on an assumption on how old 2.0 rules worked, typically.
We can also thank GW for not releasing any FAQs in a timely manner, so we could finally put this discussion to bed one way or another at least and feel secure making/buying/painting up one competitive list or the other.
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51 minutes ago, Jazzbeaux said:
Yea Nighthaunt for sure. Imagine if it is a hero nighthaunt on a monster ghost ship with an ethereal save. That would be a red carpet to the meta game for nighthaunt eh
AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion
in Destruction
Posted
This is so hyper aggressive it should obliterate things and box in the opponent very fast. Brutes bodyguard chanters a bit and holds objectives. You messin rule helps with that as well, and they still hurt quite a lot.
5 brutes could be 2x5 ArdBoyz too, I just like the brutes and that they can completely mess up objective capping from a unit of wardens, pink horrors or mortek guard for example just by engaging them.
Bloodtoofs give gruntas crazy mobility, to either keep locking down stuff harder, or move to objectives or into chanter range for the next turn buff. MSU gruntas just makes it less likely they will achieve all that snowballing I think. Although I can absolutely see a case for 1x6 and 2x3 instead.