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If 20 MW is overkill on its own then how does it matter that you can’t get them in to attack? Basically this is why I suggested the change I did. Evocators don’t even have to fight as a unit to do serious damage. One figure has to be able to fight and then they get a bucketful of MW’s to anything within 3” whether they fought it or not. It’s antithetical to most of the mechanics that govern combat that you can have a unit that just hangs around and destroys entire units without even fighting.

In referencing them dropping in the re-rolls was meant to be implicit in respect to shooting, they’re not going to be in combat to re-roll if they have to drop 9” away from anything. And once in combat If they fight first they’re unlikely to have to save against much. A heraldor or A Relictor is a cheap investment to move them around quickly if you drop them alongside. A Vexillor can do it once per battle from anywhere. Obviously It’s a situational thing but there’s no disputing that in a situation where a massive shock strike is required they can provide it and then some without much thought required.

Precisely why people tend to Scion them in. Minus 1 to hit on that turn plus re-rolling 1’s to save anyway, then a 9” charge which there are various means to facilitate. If you get them into melee with any target so long as they get to swing first they’ll obliterate pretty much anything. And as above you don’t even need to get many into combat. With some thought If you form up in such a way as to only let a few in combat with their potential 2” reach and 40mm bases you can restrict how many enemies can get into contact while still being able to gurantee firing off dozens of MW’s.

Because the MW output is calculated on the basis of unit size, and the distance from the unit, not the no of Evocators fighting. Hell they don’t even need to fight the unit they electrocute, just be within 3” of it after fighting something. Plus it’s not a combat phase ability, just “each time this unit attacks” so if you take them as Anvils and Pile-in you get to do the lightening then as well, unless that has been FAQ’d.

An extra 2 to armour save is massive though, it’s not just an incidental detail. Not disagreeing that AGK is nuts but that’s hardly an indication of the value of Sequitors. Most things die to AGK. Sequitors still stand up against an awful lot of nasty stuff very well. The only thing I think needs changing with Sacrosanct is something to limit Evocators on Foot MW output. I like the idea of the chain lightening but I think just having one dude within 3” causing up to 40 MW’s is silly. Was thinking something like “ Roll +4 for MW per model. For every 5 models in the unit you can roll 2 dice per model”. That means if you keep them all alive it’s still a devastating power burst but if you take 20 and lose 2 you’re rolling 33 dice rather than 40. Still a lot but it means you have to be more thoughtful about keeping them whole and utilising them as Shock Troops.

What difference would it make if the Gitz has got three weeks? Exactly same models and book etc. Would seeing the same stuff on the web page for one extra week really have excited you anymore than it did for two? You’re aware if that were the case for every AOS release there would actually have been *less* releases at this point? Their pacing is better than it ever has been by some distance and by pretty any other margin of product, let alone for one which requires the turn over and pre-planning that this industry demands, it’s frankly exceptional.

What were you up against?

Also seems an excellent name for a travel brand of Khainite cosmetics

I don’t really think there’s a comparison to be made between them. One costs 240 points, the other costs 300 points more, so over twice as much. As I said it’s not something I’d be building a list around. 540 points is definitely something you’re building a list around. There’s also literally no reason you can’t do both anyway. If you went AT with one ballista and Ordinator the ballista is hitting the monster on 3’s and the LO is causing D6 MW’s on 5’s. If you’re taking them as a cheap assassination squad as I mentioned above you don’t need 3 more Ballistae to do the job on top of that.

Not true at all. The one with six attacks is a prime candidate for an Artifact. Mine has killed a Bloodthirster, a Spirit of Durthu, a couple necromancers and a Daemon Prince in his time with Sword of Judgement after softening them up with a Ballista. It’s easy to get him in combat and still be wholly within 9” for shooting. Against monster or hero dependent lists I tend to use him as a hero hunter at this point. He and a Ballista can usually seriously maim or kill them in one turn. If he dosent and I’m really worried about him dying I can just retreat him, at which point my opponent either uses his hero or monster to kill a wounded buffing hero-who cares, not to mention if the Ordinator survives with even one wound he gets to swing back with six attacks causing D6 MW on a single 6 - or he sends the monster or hero into battle wounded and with a worse profile, or has to invest in screening and hiding them for the rest of the game. Very favourable Trade for me either way. @That Guy as above I like the guy with six attacks because it makes him a decent hero assassin in certain circumstances. I wouldn’t ever make a list around it or anything but if you’ve got an artifact slot free and aren’t dependent on something else for your strategy he’s as good a candidate as any. Even something like Ghyrstrike takes him from just being so-so to a strong combatant. If you have to deploy the Ballistae far away it’s not exactly an issue if he can’t fight anyone. But given the range for the salvo is max 18” and you can deepstrike behind your battleline or a screening unit anyway I never struggle to get him into the mix if I need to. But I will stress I bought the guy with two hammers because he looked the coolest then worked this out afterwards. Rule of Cool always for me.

He’d have to take Lord Arcanum to do that as general. @leeroyT Lord Arcanum plus 2 x 10 Sequitors (or a 10 and 2 x 5) plus a Lord Ordinator and 2 Ballistae is 1000 exactly and very strong. I’m a big advocate of a Liberators for controlling objectives and providing bodies but in 1000 points that shouldn’t be an issue with this list.

Palladors are one of the few units I don’t own/haven’t played with but they feel like the sort of unit to hold one objective then jump and cap any that are free with Winds Aetheric as the battle goes on. I wouldn’t feel comfortable charging them into anything really that wasn’t a lone hero or something. Obviously they could also serve as Zephryos delivery system but that feels incredibly situational. Having said that I’m sure that playing predominantly Vanguard you’ll get the odd game where everything is zipping and feinting and ambushing and paper cutting the opponent to pieces and it feels amazing. I intend to have a purely Vanguard quotient up to 1.5 k precisely to play like that every now and again.

Tomb Kings and Malerion Aelves confirmed next week then Or its removal from sale has literally nothing to do with anything as per

Routinley on groups of 10. 20 is a very big footprint to net though.

I think a lot of agressive magic to mess up backline is going to be important vs Skaven so Celestial Warbringers might be worth a shout. Take a SD who are already good against hordes and you’ve got the makings of a fun Magic cabal. Or a Tauralon to fly over stuff with a Ballistae battery, although that’s a trade of +1 to cast vs one free spell. Their free re-deployment could be quite instrumental in messing up their artillery placement as well. Think you’ll see more Liberators with Skaven around because people aren’t going to want to see anything more than their cheapest units MW’d into oblivion by warmachines.

I think the Updated Khorne book will largely be comprised of new rules and warscrolls for Tomb Kings

You could make AOS into the pre Horus Heresy without much difficulty. The bit just before the Emperor founds the Primarchs and their legions.

Preorders are up, GW are releasing some customised straws next weekend for TK obsessives to literally grasp Has nobody else noticed that Slaanesh written backwards then put through a Coptic-English auto-translate is Tomb Kings

I think with Ballistae you have to ask yourself what they’re there for. Obviously they have the capacity to do enormous damage to pretty much anything but they also have the potential to do nothing. The more you invest in them the more you’re backing yourself into a corner in respect to how much they *need* to perform, and that’s an inherent risk in the way that 400 points spent on 10 Evocators isn’t. Even 240 points for a LO and one Ballistae is a ten man Sequitor squad you could have bought instead. They will nearly always have an application but you really need to think about what that is. I like to use them to hunt heroes and monsters because the multiple damage multiple rend shots from a distance is genuinely an excellent antidote to most of their strengths, whereas you would lose more expensive combatants up close in a fight with them or be unable to get to them at all without a 9” charge. They obviously can be good at thinning the ranks of hordes etc as well but it tends to be a less notable contribution in my experience. The amount of damage you’re requiring in those instances to make a difference is statistically unlikely to happen. Whereas 240 points to severely maim or kill a monster pays for itself and is pretty reliable. You’re then either free to continue to pepper stuff or alternatively it gets charged, it dies, but you’ve already done what you wanted with it and tied up another unit in the process so win-win. Ive had a few games where the Ballista essentially did nothing but people were so bothered by its potential that they wasted an important unit or spells trying to “shut it down” when it hadn’t even started up. Also you can literally drop them pretty much anywhere due to their range, they don’t have to outflank. You don’t need to invest in screening them if you just stick them behind your advancing battle line on turn 2 or whatever. They’re also pretty good bait against certain opponents. Last game I deliberately set up the LO/Ballistae team in a vulnerable looking space which encouraged the Black Coach to be set up opposite it. Then in my turn I just dropped a 5 man Lib squad in front of it to take the charge and shot at other stuff. Tied the coach up for two turns and it had nothing to show for it other than a few dead Liberators, while Ballista has annihalated a big unit of Spirit Hosts.

I mean it’s not something to build a list around or anything, he’s there as a Ballista buff first and foremost so you put him wherever they need to be. But in a lot of instances I’ve found the Ballistae don’t need to be too far away from the main line anyway. As my guy is the dual hammers guy he gets six attacks which makes him a good candidate for an artefact that has lots of hit multipliers so I’ve experimented with it now and again. As I’ve said elsewhere a LO with Sword of Judgement and Ballistae make a really good monster or hero hunter if that’s an important target consideration in whatever game you’re playing.

Shooting Phase occurs before charge phase, so not really. Scion in Shooting Phase Charge Phase Assuming LO makes charge you then have 3” move with Ballista which will usually cover wholly within, then shooting phase again. If he didn’t make it last time he only moves 5” before attempting to charge on the second turn so again is comfortably wholly within anyway.

It’s a Command trait not an ability so no command points needed. And I deepstrike Ordinator and a Ballista in pretty frequently to clear out objectives or heroes who are camping, if tactically appropriate. The 9” for Scions means you can charge in with LO in most instances without sacrificing his buff for the Ballista. I doubt I’ll make him general in those instances but was just thinking about the ramifications of 8 attacks re-rolling 1’s on which rolling 6’s had various applications. Glad you got a laugh out of it though. Easily amused I guess.

Yeah the double hammers. Thanks! I’ve a friendly Nighthaunt game coming up and I’m thinking about going CV. NH’s access to MW’s and ability to shake off attacks favours a less defensive, more attack multiplying sort of play I’m thinking.

If you took a LO as general with astral Hammers so has the CV Command trait and rolled multiple sixes how would that work? Would you count the multiple sixes for the MW aspect as well as the individual 6’s for each 2 damage strike instance? That seems logical but not sure.

It’s fine for the unit of 5 but it dosent multiply by 5, it’s 2 per every 5 plus one for the Prime, so it’s a max of 5 with 10, 7 with 15, 9 with 20.