[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

56 minutes ago, Rachmani said:

I‘d argue for 2 fumigators & 2 mortars. There is enough model snipe to varant at least two of each.

Plus the fumigator targets enemy models not units with the -1 to hit so you need a few in a big unit. Plus it also has very good damage output just 9” range. 

I feel for a big 20 blob that your planning to be an anvil saving gold shares for when they’re charged on re roll saves I might max all the specials as they get a lot more from the +1 attack rule in your next turn (or just 1-2 mortar perhaps as it’s the weakest). 

Again to credit GW this time around the design of the thunderers means no particular setup screams it’s the best. Instead it depends on unit role and army composition (which is how it should be). 

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

So looking through the warscrolls some more in depth it seems our highest dmg output will be skywardens in Barak-Zon.

12 Skywardens on the charge all pikes buffed with a khemist then using their gold to re roll misses in melee.

Just over 12 at -1 from shooting

40 odd damage at -1 in melee

Which is pretty decent for a 400 point unit and 90 point hero buff.

-------------------

Just not sure if its worth dedicating to Barak-Zon and a deathstar unit for that one hit that also does need to be on the charge. Still it could be a useful counter punch to replace the old saw riggers unit (who arent terrible if you do the same double re rolls either and don't need the port as they will do 20 odd at -2)

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

35 minutes ago, GDD said:

Until the Ironclad goes down in points(IF it goes down) I'd say two Frigates. Unless you want to run the Iron Sky command battalion for whatever reason.

Two Frigates gives you more board presence, two distraction carnifexes, you don't put all your eggs in one basket, more total wounds, and they out-shoot the Ironclad on average.
Their downside is a lot more army-drops(but you were likely going second versus most armies anyway), and that their random damage/shooting can and WILL under-preform at some point because this is a dice game.

The Ironclad has the benefits of reliable shooting, better endrin-works, and slightly less drops(if you take the battalion you might have a chance of going first if you wanted to).
And of course it's also one of the best models in the whole damn game, but that does not give it a strategical advantage sadly.

Ironclad is far better for re roll saves as 3+ and it’s only one unit per phase (so one frigate can always get killed easily) then add in possibility for two gold shares on the ironclad may bring the ironclad back into the competition. I am liking the changes so far as it feels to me as if nearly everything is playable. 
 

also I feel KO will want to play second most of the time to prevent being double turned and for potential double turns. opponents who are savvy to this will make KO play first unless they feel they can take an unassailable lead by playing first (armies with lots of bodies and hard to shift). We still would want lower drops if possible but for playing second and hopefully faq puts ships back to old way of 1 drop including passengers. 

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

Just to add to the gold shares I think playing the subfaction with additional gold (and having 2 gold on certain units) will be really solid if your wanting a list with large units of anything. 
 

imagine 20 Thunderers / 40 arks get charged so you pop re roll saves then next turn you pop re roll hits / wounds on their shooting. 
 

 

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

8 minutes ago, Nick907 said:

We don’t have to finish deployment first anymore, we can just pack into a corner and screen with arkanauts. I think smart opponents will force us to go first, so the strategy will be to proceed cautiously in round 1 most of the time.  We have the ability to clear objectives with shooting and move around but it will be harder to bank on the early double turn. This is okay and opponents will survive longer than they would otherwise. We have incredible fire power and mixed ranges, so we will probably need to split our focus, move defensively,  and pick smaller targets to wipe out in turn 1-2. 

 

This is the real weakness of high drop lists as I think 90% of the time I would prefer to play second especially with an army that’s not that strong in melee as it’s even harder for you to fight off the double turn. Part of the reason the bottle with a powerful endless spell maybe a great addition. If we go first in a round and cast the spell if they don’t / can’t unbind it and then double turn, you get to move and hit them with the endless spell again. 

 

Or we go second cast it they may want us to go first next round and double them just to stop the endless spell double dip especially if it’s something powerful. I’m actually mulling if purple sun is finally worth it in a KO bottle list. 

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

13 minutes ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

What do the shooting profiles of the balloon boys look like? I was wondering how viable small units hanging around boats would be. I like the idea of a gunhauler deepstriking onto the back lines with some would be.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think their shooting profiles really changed. 
 

I think their current output is fine for a 100 point screen / obj grabber anyway when you give them the drill cannon and volley gun

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

Yeah I think the “secret sauce” may turn out to be

mobility 

screens 

add a dash of triumphs (re roll saves on ironclad or models in cover especially for the sweet 3+ re rollable.). 10 Thunderers would make a great objective holder in this role. 3+ re roll in cover when charged, then in their turn they get plus 1 attack potentially with some special weapons mixed in rather than full rifles. 
 

We will see where things shake out but my initial feelings are that this book can win games even against strong lists due to pretty good ranged damage output / pretty good survivability and then late game redeployment. However ranged mortal wound as against so many armies will be terrible for KO who have no shrugs. At least a lot of lists I’m conceiving have a higher wound count than the previous book at 130 ish. 

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

53 minutes ago, michu said:

But they do that. That playtesters group is called "The Faithful" and @Mengel Miniatures belongs to them. 

That’s good to know but it does still then beg the question how things like stacking command abilities etc are getting missed. Or if you look at OBR no one even had to play a game to know petrifex elite was miles away the best (plus save trait and some of the best artifact and command ability giving plus save and plus rend to the same sub faction)  

Im not having a big rant I was even originally defending GW saying they test but obviously not correctly. 

Overall I like the new books coming out. I play IJ and was arguing with people that obviously the new ardfist wasn’t supposed to be spammed and it took several months for it to be faq. GW need to understand the style of players out there and make sure they write tighter wording especially on not making command abilities spam and other abilities not stackable. 

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

20 minutes ago, Entombet said:

Well sometimes i think they dont playtest them releasing abominations like slaanesh and ossiarch

I’m not sure, I think GW may playtest things in their own way. They just seem to have no way of understanding how potent certain combinations are. Also they still don’t understand that one of the most important concepts is points per wound if you cost a lot and don’t have a shrug MW will just tear you up. This why varagaurd shouldn’t be 300 points as they’re unplayable not due to rules but due to 20 ppw without a shrug ona melee unit
 

If we look at KO book one they completely missed 20 Thunderers with mortars and a bunch of khemists. 
 

As they design the books they probably just playtest them as they feel they “should” be played. Ideally they should design a book then give it to a set of competitive players to look over. This would also stop all the 1-2 week faq drops which often completely change certain things (OBR multiple harvester or stacking charge command ability for example). 

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

6 minutes ago, Stormrage89 said:

did i miss read something? i thought you only get 1 gold for the entire game. I know there are other ways to get more gold depending on what Skyport you pick and hero selection. But wouldn't it be better to save it for melee armor saves in a lot of situations.   (obviously it depends on the situation, but still)

No it’s every hero, ship and 10 model unit gets a share of gold (and you can add more through some choices). 

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

Yeah re roll saves in a vacuum seems like the best but as it’s once per phase need to pick and choose so still buffing some hit re rolls at times maybe worth it just to use the gold up. 

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

4 minutes ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

I’ve seen positive and negative reviews from y’all on the KO so I decided I’d give my opinion as someone who doesn’t collect them but will in the future (as a grotbag scuttler conversion army but still, rules are rules)

someone said a keeper of secrets can kill the ironclad in one round? Like what?!? 3 up 18 wounds with a rerollable for one phase is not getting killed without several phases of combat! 

Heres my thoughts: ships are amazing, just by disengaging and shooting with ships alone you are halving a melee armies damage on you, the 9 inch weapons for garrison units sucks tho :(. Aether gold is a huge plus, sad that you get a minus 1 to battleshock but them the breaks, I’ve had games where my triumph won me a key combat or objective. It’s blowing my mind that I could do this 5 times a game.

thoughts on infantry: basic flying dwarves feel great right now, 9 pts per 4 up wound with rerolls once per game makes them as tough as ardboys most of the time, and for 1 key combat they become tougher then kurnoth hunters. Just wow for a battle line objective grabbing unit. I’m in love 😍 

the big gun dwarves: I believe the only way to add decent fire power on a deepstrike. With rerolls to save to survive initial charges their rules outside of ships make me excited to use them once the ship goes down.  Also when combined with how shooting and retreating works with the army basically makes us have two damage phases per round while the opponent has 1 (we get to shoot, they charge, we both attack, then we retreat and repeat, again denying the opponent the ability to fight on our turn) this is Essentially always strikes first for any army that focuses on range, and we don’t care too much about debuffs in melee as that’s not our forte.

its also hilarious to think of some of our characters in garrison. Imagine putting an admiral in a ironclad with a scary weapon do deter charging. I believe he’s at a 3 up regularly so basically becomes a 2 up (possibly rerolling) at negative 1 to hit melee monster. Not as damaging as other melee leaders but a lot harder to kill. The ogor charge ironclad “mount trait” could make for a lolzy melee commander haha

im not too focused on balloon boys as they aren’t the part of the army I like, but for infantry and boats I am more then happy with what turned out

 

Gold is once per phase not round   it will be easy to build lists with 10+ gold in it, prepare for your mind to be double blown!

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

1 hour ago, stratigo said:

Honestly I feel like gw decided that the way to get people to play ships is to make everything not a ship bad. Considering all the ways gw has been adding extra attacks, fighting twice, mortal wound recursions, and other thing that sort of break the game, the loss of those same mechanics in KO, that was already weak, feels kinda bad

 

an army of 10 gunhaulers isn’t particularly more compelling than like 100 arkanauts were 

 

Army wide 4+ or better save now, army wide access to triumphs (with most units getting them unless MSU balloons / thunderers). The ships also on the whole have had their damage output around doubled. Characters are on the whole good. Ark Company are very good screens and maybe ok in a horde role as well but needs testing. Teleporting of ships, access to an endless spell (wondering if it’s worth having purple sun in a bottle)  

Theres so many good things in this book. Flip side I understand that people may not be happy that a lot of the previous focus is gone so it’s wasted monetary and hobby investment. However huge blobs plus khemist was never that fluffy.

I don’t think KO need fight twice etc. screens, 3+ saves in cover re rollable can keep KO in the game whilst they have a steady 40-50 dmg a turn with rend. I feel this book is more conducive to combined arms style builds than before. Melee armies should have far higher damage potential for the same points compared to shooting as its hard to bring melee damage to where you need it. 

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

15 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

The one trick pony that was developed by people as the only way to make the army semi-competitive has been removed.

A lot of other stuff has changed to compensate and improve the army as a whole.

I agree, I wasn’t complaining I was pointing out why some players maybe unhappy if that is their collection. 
 

As someone who is the happy KO owner of 7 ships I’m perfectly happy with the new books direction. 
 

I mentioned earlier my first list will probably be 5 ships and a bunch of sky wardens. 

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

4 minutes ago, crkhobbit said:

Is this the first chicken little of the day?

Book looks good to me.  Not sure what got messed up.

Well sky hook blobs and khemists now are no longer useful. Ark boys are just screens (and good at it) khemists may see play as cheap heroes. 
 

also 12 rigger blocks probably won’t see play due to khemists not doubling their attacks now. So if players had ark blobs, riggers and khemists they will be salty. 

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

1 hour ago, Vextol said:

Iron clad does a flat 6 damage!!  New end rigger heals 3!!!  Holy moly!!! 

FAQ drop:  D6, D3.

... Fool me once GW.  I'll hold off my excitement and pre-orders until the FAQ drops. 

Or 6, 2 dmg shots, also I don’t see it getting nerfed as it’s at 510 points. If anything those points might get shaved down in future GHB. 

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

11 minutes ago, Qaz said:

This is the plan

I have all the models (albeit not the best loadouts) 

Floaty Endrinmaster (220) -General - Bottle
Arkanaut Admiral (140) - Port's Artefact
10 x Thunderers (240)
3 x Skywardens (100) - Battleline
3 x Skywardens (100) - Battleline
3 x Skywardens (100) - Battleline 
Arkanaut Ironclad (510) - Last Word
Grundstok Gunhauler (150) - Debtsettler
Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
Grundstok Escort Wing (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000

After more careful reading... it seems like a big unit of Skywarden in Barak-Zon looks to be very strong but you can't hitch more than 7 at any given time. And there's not a way to get a single drop in the battletome since you have to 'set-up' in a garrison. 

I’m having a similar idea to lean into the new ships.  Thinking first list maybe 

2 admiral 

3 frigate 

2 crawler 

3*10 ark

4*3 warden 

sky ports / traits etc  tbd once I have some time to mull them over. I like to sit with a new book in my hands and flick back and forth till inspiration strikes. 

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

Just watched the book review and interesting changes. 
 

I'm happy to see all the ships get major buffs on offence and defence. Ark company just as cheap chaff is fine for me as I didn’t like big blobs anyway. 
 

Thunderers not sure on as 2 wounds but their damage output stayed the same so now you just get less damage per point due to 30 point increase. 
 

I do think the gold rule will be key especially of course the re roll saves with most of the army having good saves now. 
 

Im a bit sad panda most of the skirmish type rules went away but we get teleport and garrison on ships so maybe keeping the Thunderers rule and fight last bombs would have been too much. 
 

excited for the changes and my 1700 odd points of ships will be coming out to play. 

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

😎 Sitting on 7 ships and reading how the updated rules teaser  sounds 😍 just give me 2 shot 3+ 2+ cannons on them and it will be heaven. 

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

12 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

Also, the weapon stats for the floating endrinmaster are not only great on their own, but they give us insight into what I hope holds true for the whole army:

Cannons

Hitting

On 3’s.

I was kind of expecting 3+3+ across most of the army it’s the same thing they did with ogres on their rework and makes units that should hit hard actually do so. 

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

41 minutes ago, cofaxest said:

I would like to see that, but don't think that you can achieve that with so many fast closecombat oriented armies. Even if we will have "shooting after retreat" rule it will not help against mv6 or higher armies.

I was more thinking expanding out on things they already have like the strike last bombs, thunderers with drill bills and retreat as their attack action (works well in MSU to save the odd unit. Also just adding some additional range to current weapons would help KO not need to one shot things as they would have the range to get a couple of volleys in. 

Currently my favourite way (not best!) is escort wing MSU although it tends to be pillow fisted, a few extra anti charge abilities and maybe making all cannons 2 shots should tip it back. I do feel there’s a very small sweet spot for KO between pillow fisted and overwhelming firepower so will be interesting to see if that gets hit or not. 

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

6 minutes ago, ArmyOfGrodd said:

I’m getting a little worried about actually securing a copy of the new box after reading some comments relating to Feast of Bones etc. Where am I most likely to secure one? GW site?

Yeah if you pre order from GW or a local independent game store it will be locked in. 

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

KO don’t really need new units, just for all the current units to be viable and it would be nice to have alternative battle line unlocked. 
 

3 ships

2 balloon units 

2 infantry units 

quite a few heroes is sufficient if they’re all good units. 
 

agree that sky ports will probably stay and maybe just with a set of additional army wide rules layered on top. 
 

I do think being fair to GW KO are a hard army to balance. It is a high damage output army focused on range that can also be very fast. 
 

I would like them to have a focus more on skirmish style warfare and positioning rather than just stacking sheer damage output. 

[AoS 2 - Bonesplitterz Discussion]

On 11/20/2019 at 11:43 PM, Malakithe said:

Why not just use warscroll builder? It's a lot cleaner and easier to read. Also double battalion is usually not a good idea as you sink too many points in just rules and not bodies. Kunnin isnt really good anymore with arrowboys let alone two units of them. A single unit of 30 arrowboys with the exploding 6's spell should do far more then what the new Kunnin is capable of

20 double tapping will obviously do more than 30 single tapping . Also I can’t help but feel an awful lot of BS builds are trending towards double battalion. 
 

I also like a Kopp and Kunnin combo

3 wardok 

maniac weirdnob 

boss

2x20 arrer 

20/10/10/10 Mor 

6 big stabbas 

Kopp & Kunnin 

an alternative is drop the maniac and stabbas for a rogue idol. 

[AoS 2 - Ogor Mawtribe Discussion]

1 hour ago, Kramer said:

Wouldn’t consider 20 points ‘heftily overcosted’ myself. 
I would argue more it’s the warscrolls. Tyrant bit too swingy. Huskart 4+ prayer. Thundertuks maybe but haven’t played with them.  Butchers would be cool as two casters to give them more of a difference to slaughtermasters. Definitely would need a points increase then tho. 
my point being that even if they dropped the huskart 40 points or something the 4+ Prayer would still hold me off on it as it’s too unreliable. Like @Forrix I would like it if the tyrant was more of a killer hero. But points won’t really fix that. Still like him for the command ability personally.  

I do think one HoTT in boulderhead with fleet of hoof and hailstorm can be worth it depending on list. Both the 3+ hailstorm and the re roll one or both dice help charge MW and overall the amount of MW he can push out. The 4+ prayer is hit and miss as you say but can be very powerful especially +1 to wound on a FLoSH.