Reuben Parker

So early days as it’s only hints currently but AoS3 maybe great for SoB. even playing field for battalions and command points and a potential focus on heroic actions (often 3/4 of a SoB list are heroes). This also means SoB should virtually always win the deployment drops. smaller board makes it easier for a small footprint large hold value force to stay bunched up but holding multiple objectives. Will also be interesting to see if you can still “hack” battle plans by kicking objectives into enemy territory / no mans land. what may make or break it are points changes. If they do the 40k style smaller boards and -10% average list size it maybe troublesome for SoB. If we only lose our utility points though, the 50 to 80 points leftover currently then we lose far less than other armies (triumph / CP / Endless spell / 3 mancrushers as solos).

Rage blade and +2 att trait is nice for 12 attacks with exploding 6s if you want to go pure damage dealing. for protection I prefer the shrug to the ignore rend 1. for all round I normally just go +2 att and 6+++

Wait until we see a screenshot as I’ve heard different people saying price points all over the range. I will not understand it if he’s that high as he would so obviously be unplayable and one of the most expensive models in the game whilst having zero utility, fly, ignore instant death, shrug, keywords etc etc. And dies relatively easily.

The way MWs are being handed out like candy kind of makes me think AoS3 is going to bring something into play to lower their impact. Even new zombies can fairly easily stack up attacks and double pile in so each model averages 1 or more MW caused and you can get 40 zombies for 230. It would be good for Kragnos obviously and personally I feel better for the game as a whole. But will have to wait and see what the new release brings.

Flippant comments are kind of worthless however Gotrek isn’t worth the points he’s at currently, he’s not burning down the meta. Secondly in most situations hes far harder to kill. Due to look out sir, base size, not triggering monster bonuses and having effectively 24 wounds and damage reduction. Then most often he’s played in CoS who have access to empowered lifeswarm and potentially other healing. This means if he’s not one shot (which is tough) he basically doesn’t die. even with that he’s not worth 520 due to speed and screening again. He probably should be slightly more than Kragnos though so if Kragnos imho should be sub 400 maybe try Gotrek around 400 odd.

also note there are now other people saying in their opinion he’s not straight better than a stone horn (which I agree with as the objectives holding is so important) who is 400 and FLoSH could be cheaper without breaking the game and Kragnos is a unique model. If you want to refute something you always need to give arguments. Maybe giving thought out arguments would educate others or maybe yourself as to if he would or wouldn’t be OP at 360. Just blindly saying I’m right your wrong doesn’t help anything.

Which is fine, but at 550 to 650 do you think he would be playable at tournaments? At over 30 PPW with no shrug and no healing. Unless AoS 3 brings wide scale changes, giving him 2+ save and no shrug, no healing he’s in a very funny place. Good lists will demolish him very efficiently and if he’s pointed to be a fair pick there then lower tier will struggle vs him. Or if he’s pointed higher he’s just a liability vs good lists. if we look at new vampires which you can tell are written with AoS3 in mind. 195 gets great damage output blood knights that can skip screens. 230 gets you 40 zombies who natively put out MW and can be buffed to insane damage properties. So if this is the AoS3 baseline I can’t ratify him being expensive.

Give reasoned arguments why a model shouldn’t pay more than 20 PPW, none of which you tried to deconstruct. He’s a big beat stick which will be hard to get into combat and then 2+ save and anti spell are his only special defensive features. As I pointed out nearly every top build can drop him fairly easily. now yes if you are playing an army with few screens and low MW or higher than rend 1 output you will struggle vs him but that’s true facing a lot of armies.

9 spear eels, skink MW spam, buffed new zombie blob, even a gatebreaker mega with +2 trait and exploding 6s with +1 to hit heroes (the best setup in a breaker tribe) would most likely kill him on the charge never mind once you add in the shooting. FEC double fight terrorgheist 18 wounds is not great even on a 2+. In AoS there are very few units that are truly hard to kill. As I said in my earlier post unless AoS3 brings some big balance changes virtually every top army can handle him pretty easily. As such he shouldn’t be at all expensive.

Anyone saying he should be 500+ doesn’t understand how easy he will be to screen off and how easy he is to kill without a shrug. The 2+ save is only great vs rend 1 and lower. Any MW or higher end attacks put him down super fast. even at 400 he would be a tough take. 9 spear eels average kill him, HGB with pole axes, lumineth in general, KO in general. Skink MW spam. Big A himself. Essentially if you look at all the high placing armies they can easily kill him bar spell based DoT and catapult OBR. If a model is slow, can’t avoid screens and lacks utility beyond being a beat stick it can’t have a high PPW value and be worth fielding. Now maybe AoS3 gives us some generic MW save CA / healing etc and then the balance shifts but currently even at say 20 PPW for 360 he still wouldn’t be greatly efficient.

I think it will depend on who gets the key charges.

This isn’t my stomp but just saw the video and the stomp is beautiful. Not seen it here but maybe it has been posted and I missed it. Well worth checking out.

It has been discussed before and is an option. Although why are you running double kraken eater doesn’t feel worth it when they have the lowest damage output. I personally like multiple megas in breaker all being gate breakers for hero sniping. Then stomper often only runs the stomper. I find the only tribe that I want to mix megas is taker. My feeling is that every mega should get a trait and artifact from their list as it would give them a buff, feel fluffy and give some customization between lists.

Actually points don’t have to come down that much to allow an extra mancrusher. Even a triple expensive mega (490) list plus 3 crusher unit only needs 30 point reductions and an equivalent 10 point reduction in solo mancrushers 460x3 = 1380 + 450 + 170 = 2k. I don’t think we would see warscroll changes outside of a new book it’s just not what GW really does. We once saw KO thunderers get an update in a GHB but that was only as they were a serious problem unit.

Without being negative as any army can have an bad matchup I don’t think you can. If SoB beat IDK the IDK player has to be bad and probably a bad list as even a bad player with an average IDK list will win. faster, hit harder and the very common Don Haim gives them ridiculous re rolls. Rr1 to hit on charge and rr all wounds. To the point where 340 points of Eels on average nearly downs a mega. Add in high tide for strikes first and it’s over. to me IDK are giants worst matchup currently.

What’s the list? I would guess leige, soulmason 2x10 mortek 2 crawler or maybe switch the mason for 10 more mortek I guess your best bet would be stomper tribe using the re roll saves artifact and 3d6 charge trait as that will be pretty resilient vs the crawlers. Then 3 mancrushers. In a game that small not going to be much tactically beyond trying to get inside the minimum range of the crawlers and trying to multi charge units so you can leave a mortek unit still at 10 models to get the bonus damage by putting the impact hits / pickup into a different target one other thing as your lower drop make them go first top of 1. If they move forward to tag objectives you should be in first turn charge range especially with the 3d6 warstomper

No they can run and charge in range of a mega but no run and shoot

I haven’t got up to 9 yet but I have thought about what I would run if I expand to 9 mancrushers. I would go stomper / 3 / 3 and 3 solo. As the singles can still blow up larger screens on their own. maybe controversial but I would run mantle over cestus. Re roll 4+ is only good vs chaff attacks but stomper tribe destroys chaff and the mega is a support piece in the list so sits behind and so will be targeted by quality shooting and or ranged mortals which it doesn’t help against much if at all. The mantle saves you a lot of CP and also is the only way the mega himself gets to reroll charge. I would then run the d3 extra CP allowing the army to run the throw rocks for first few turns and do a big hit with a bubble of re roll 1s. tactics as long as your in range of the shout you have some ok sniping power / range screen killing. If charging a unit of 10 try to see if you can contact something else and put your impact into them so you don’t drop them below 10. Use the solos to tag objectives and kill screens then try to setup a big hit with the larger 3 man units.

It says “wholly within or on a terrain feature”. So as you say similar to gaining cover if a model in the unit has part of a base out it doesn’t trigger. that’s why I’ve said before that a breaker doesn’t really get +1 damage instead it removes the benefit of cover from your opponent (as they will never let it trigger), however that’s still a nice benefit.

Interesting, personally I’m just not sold on the Kraken eater outside taker tribe where it can get the sandals for a big boost to damage output. Maybe I’m not valuing his utility enough though. Also in that list he prefers the triumph to the CP and that’s the choice personally I can never decide which is better.

I was interested to see in the warhammer community Metawatch article the SoB player was saying his current favourite list is what I have been banging the drum for. Although not tooting my own horn that much as theres not that many different choices The article isn’t clear though as to if he means triple gatebreaker mega or just triple mega one of each as commonly seen in taker tribes. I assume though that he means triple gatebreaker all with the +1 vs heroes and wizards as the sniping game is super important. The list I’ve mentioned before is 3 gatebreaker, general with +2 flail trait and 6+++ item and then a unit of 3 mancrushers. After that I’m never sure if a CP or just a triumph bid is better.

Nice reports! Good to see the big guys doing some work even if I won’t be able to play for many more months (smallest violin playing the saddest song for first world problems). Really chomping at the bit to get mine on the table.

The wording is a bit funny but I’m pretty positive you can do multiple kicks just have to be separate objectives. Reason being the last sentences clarifies each objective can only be kicked once per phase. If they only wanted one kick in total the wording would have confirmed that. Saying that I’ve not really seen multiple Kraken eaters considered.

Looking good, I love the rag hide across the face really plays into the desert theme.

Nice one! I think in general breakers are pretty solid vs OBR with all the rend -3. Indeed though not having to face Big K is definitely a boon. As although breakers are my favourite they’re most vulnerable to hit debuffs.