dmorley21
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Posts posted by dmorley21
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Reapers didn’t actually change… Coach used Warscroll Builder, which was wrong.
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2 hours ago, Vastus said:
With the new reach rules, Harridans could be nice and effective MSU bounty hunters I think. They pump out a ton of attacks and are self-sufficient. They could easily steal an objective from most battleline.
Probably avoid Quicksilver Dead though, since they're more likely to roam around than hang near your castle with the Krulghast.
Avoid Quicksilver Dead? Gotta disagree with that.
Nurgle, Nighthaunt mirror matches, DoK are all going to be relevant. Maybe even Fyreslayers and probably other Death armies.
Really think it’s being slept on as a subfaction.
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The only two generic endless spells I own are Cogs and Purple Sun. I’m not complaining.
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1 minute ago, EnixLHQ said:
So this isn't true?
Where’d you pull that from? This is what I see:
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7 hours ago, Vastus said:
Love it mate. One small correction: you repeatedly mention MoM giving a +1 to casting/unbinding/dispelling, but it's a re-roll to one roll.
5 hours ago, Ranzou said:And lastly, knowing no range or boundary, she can issue her own Command Ability, No Rest For the Wicked
This is not a command ability.
Darn, missed both of those while reading it over!
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2 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:
I've got the same question as the dude on WarCom's Twitter; how often are we going to be seeing seasons?
I mean, Thondia just came out and it was regulated as an optional "other" battle pack that doesn't play along with the GHB, and now it looks turfed completely for this new GHB. How long will this stick around?
They hinted they’re going to 6ish months for GHBs now.
The Thondia stuff was supposed to release in January but was also supposed to be narrative, not January competitive. Since the Thondia stuff got so delayed… they just barely talked about it, which led to some confusion. Only the Incarnate is GHB legal from it all. We’ll see if it has points in the new GHB/online update. But, the Thondia stuff was meant to be narrative lore supplement while the GHB is the tournament supplement.
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11 minutes ago, The_Dudemeister said:
WarCom just confirmed the whole thing and more.
Yeah, Reapers especially have nothing speaking for them anymore. Chainrasps are at least still cheap and plentiful wounds. But everything Reapers do, Bladegheists and Harridans do better per model
Reapers do get the +1 attack vs 5 or more. That’s when they get charged too. And if they go in the battalion where they get +1 damage… they could really put in some hurt. I think their stocks are down, but they’ll still have a place.
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1 minute ago, The_Dudemeister said:
I'm more interested in the new battalions. One of which makes every model count as 3 for objectives, which will be extremely popular. The other one gives Infantry +1 damage against these battalions.
Hello Krulghast! Only pros and no cons for us
Cons for Reapers and Chainrasps IMO. Their ability to fight in two ranks is very neutered. Bladegheist and Harridan subfaction stocks through the roof though.
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Suffered a pretty bad loss to Nurgle yesterday - a blightking spam list. I made some bad plays and dropped 2 of my first 3 battle tactics.
Ran a list with 30 Reapers in a Death Star supported by a Guardian, Olynder, Torment, Chainghasts, and Spirit Hosts.
Also had 5 Hexwraiths and 3*10 Bladegheists in Scarlet Doom.
The Death Star was great. The Blades were terrible - definitely need to spam them if running them MSU IMO. The way I ran them they didn’t kill anything and just died.
Overall though I played poorly.
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If you’re not in the competitive NH Discord, there’s a couple people discussing their 4-1 results in the tournament section. Invite link:
Also - I’m pumped about the new contrast paints! The Briar Queen one might be the basis of my new scheme.
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Discussing Nighthaunt is going to be so different with the new book. A quick look at tournament results over the weekend:
In addition to @Liquidsteel and his Scarlet Doom list go 3-2 at the Justice Series (Ian and Richie's old podcast was what really got me into AoS), we also saw:
Matthew Gouldesbrough go 4-0-1 at a 29 player event running Scarlet Doom. He's a great AoS player. His list was:
SpoilerKrulghast - General/Cloaked in Shadow
Guardian of Souls - Seal of Shyish
Spirit Torment - Arcane Tome/Shademist
30 Bladegheists
10 Bladegheists
10 Bladegheists
6 Spirit Hosts
4 Myrmourn Banshees
Black Coach
Battle Regiment
Dave Carter went 3-2 at the same event running an Emerald Host list:
SpoilerGuardian of Souls* - General / Master of Magic / Beacon of Nagashizzar / Soul Cage
Guardian of Souls*** - Lightshard of the Harvest Moon / Shademist
KoSoES*
Kurdoss*
Lord Executioner***
Spirit Torment***
5 Hexwraiths**
5 Hexwraiths**
5 Hexwraiths***
5 Hexwraiths***
3 Spirit Hosts**
3 Spirit Hosts***
2 Chainghasts***
2 Chainghasts***
* = Command Entourage, Magnificent
** = Hunters of the Heartlands
*** = Battle Regiment
At the US Open in San Diego, Frank DeLoach took his Scarlet Doom list to a 4-1 finish:
SpoilerOlynder* - Spectral Tether
Spirit Torment*
Spirit Torment* - Lightshard of the Harvest Moon
Krulghast - General / Master of Magic / Arcane Tome / Seal of Shyish
20 Bladegheists**
20 Bladegheists**
20 Grimghasts**
3 Spirit Hosts
3 Spirit Hosts
* = Command Entourage, Magnificent
I'll stop posting lists at this point, but also at the San Diego U.S. Open, Kyle Claip took his Emerald Host to a 3-2 finish.
At the Atlantic City Open, Tom Lyons took an Emerald Host to a 3-2 finish.
At an RTT in Florida (US, Onslaught), Chris Miller to his Emerald Host to a 3-0 finish.
In Utah (US) at an event called Wargames for Warriors, William Froehle took an Emerald Host to a 4-1 finish. That one featured 2 20 blocks of Reapers.
There were also a lot of less than optimal results, but what we're seeing is that Nighthaunt can very much be competitive with the new book. We're also seeing primarily Scarlet Doom and Emerald Host taken. I think if Nurgle remain a powerhouse after the new GHB, that we'll see Quicksilver Dead start popping up more. All of the results I got were from Best Coast Pairings - I didn't look at TTO.
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I’m traveling this weekend, but just wanted to chime in that this army is really strong at attrition. You just have to lean into it. But blocks of 30 GG/Chainrasp are able to anvil just about anything.
This video might be worth a watch:
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28 minutes ago, lare2 said:
Quick question, if Lady O fails to fob off a wound to her SH entourage, can she then roll her ward save? I believe not but my friend, who also runs NH, believes she can.
Nope. They cleaned it up so you only get the bodyguard save or the Ward save, not both.
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16 hours ago, Aeryenn said:
How do you deal with Giants?
I had a game against them and my army was crushed completely. He went first claiming 3 objectives. In my turn I managed to kill 3 man eaters and did basically nothing to his mega-gargants but do did he to my units. He got first again in the second battle round and destroyed 3 out of 4 of my units (not counting heroes and black coach). Basically each time his gargant attacked it was one unit dead on my side. The game was set. I could do nothing at this point. His gargants were all close to max health.
My buddy who plays Sons won’t play them against new NH because he’s so sure that the ghosts will roll his giants. Gotta say that I agree… no reason you shouldn’t be able to lift a mega a turn.
16 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:Any of you folks getting games in able to speak to our offensive output?
Does auto wound on 6s to hit make a meaningful impact? Should you aim for more -save WoT even when you have the option for strikes-last due to losing MW output?
Offensive output is great on your turn when you get multi-charges. You want to fish for the -1 saves generally and the others will really depend on the combat and context.
I’ve played against Fyreslayers, Beastclaw Raiders, Nighthaunt, and Daughters so far.
1 hour ago, Rors said:I think the most viable tactic again giants is basically the same no matter what army you bring because their strategy is the same no matter who they face.
Giants move onto the objectives and you either clear enough of them off by turn 3 or you're too far behind on points.
With NH I'd mass charge everything into one giant at a time and focus of bring one down a turn if you can. Keep at least one unit aside for deepstrike so if they move a giant over to help the one you're murdering, you can deepstrike onto the objective they left behind.
It's a pure damage check army that objective camps so focus on one objective at a time and you'll be ahead by turn 5. If you spread out your damage they'll be too far ahead on points by the time you start dropping them.
Most of this is correct, but Sons can be played offensively as well. Their charges hurt with their mortals and if they bring Kragnos around they’re living for those charges. Grieving Legion would be an offensive Sons player’s worst nightmare.
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8 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:
This list, piloted by https://twitter.com/Oregano_Nate, went 24 to 16 against Idoneth Deepkin at the Slambo GT event in Texas. I'm still waiting to see streams uploaded for the other rounds, but Nate ended up placing 9th out of 91 with a 4/1 record!
Pretty sure this is the old book - haven’t watched it though. He also is the guy who took a Nagash NH list to the top 8 at LVO.
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On 6/7/2022 at 3:31 AM, Iksdee said:
I am wondering how good the Emerald Host really is vs the Scarlet Doom.
Emerald Host: What units do u pick for at the beginning? Something u want to kill first or second turn anyway? a Monster? It is kind of like a dot/poison status in most games. Does damage at the end of the turn. Has no impact first turn. Does nothing after the target is dead. It should kill something if not countered by healing. Cant change target, not flexible.
Scarlet Doom: Unit dependent. At how many units of Bladegheist Revenants is this worth it? I think MSU is the way to go here. Seems like a good effect to have on a not so high priority target in an army that want to charge, retreat and charge again. More flexible and has an immediate impact on the game, target doesnt have to be the charged target. Bladegheist Revenants battleline.
Seems to me like the Emerald Host is a more stable low damage choice vs high risk high reward with the Scarlet Doom. What do u think? Am i missing something here?
I view them as playing very differently honestly. Emerald Host allows you to take any list, and apply pressure as needed based on deployment. I ran it this past weekend due to the list I was running, without thinking it was worthwhile. Ended up being pretty good.
My targets really differentiated during the games.
I chose some big monsters in the first game against Beastclaw Raiders, and it helped chip on them so that I could more easily bring a few down. Still got wrecked, but that's another story.
The second game I got four targets, and chose both units of Spirit Hosts and then Olynder and Kurdoss. Worked out really well for me.
The final game I chose Big Morathi (she's a monster), the bow snakes, and a support hero. Helped me a bit, though still a loss.
I'm planning to try Scarlet Doom next, and know I won't be able to choose any targets for the impact hits. I'll take what I'm given there.
I will say I think Emerald Host wants you to bring a couple of other ways of dealing mortal wounds at a distance so that way you can kind of hit critical mass. I brought Olynder, Black Coach, and Terminexus and really hit critical mass in my mirror match where I was just clean wiping opposing ghosts off the table.
9 hours ago, pikachoux said:What do you think of awlrach and how can we use him? Its a nice model thats why I bought him. I just hope he can be useful.
Just picked him up with a gift certificate as he was the only interesting NH option the store had in stock. I plan on trying him out in conjunction with running a blob of 30 Reapers or 2 blobs of 20. Being able to teleport an anvil unit seems to be really beneficial.
Side note - I know it was discussed earlier, but @Boggler - how do you do hidden content? Makes including lists a lot more aesthetically pleasing.
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Attended a small RTT yesterday. I hadn't gotten in any practice games (apart from half a game in TTS) with the new book and I ended up running a less than optimized list as I'm in the process of redoing my army and this is what I primarily had in a relatively still complete state. My list was:
Emerald Host
Olynder (Spectral Tether) / Krulghast (General, Arcane Tome, Shademist) / Spirit Torment (Lightshard of the Harvest Moon)
30 Reapers / 5 Hexwraiths / 5 Hexwraiths / 3 Spirit Hosts / Black Coach (Soulreach Grasp)
Terminexus
The Reapers and Hexwraiths were in Hunters of the Heartland, while I also took Warlord. You had to use a different Grand Strategy every time, which is tough for the list I ran but I did manage to get each one. I ended up going 1-2 and don't remember enough for a turn-by-turn report, but here is a summary:
Game 1 (Feral Foray)
I played a Beastclaw Raiders monster trucks version of Ogor Mawtribes. I chose the NH specific Grand Strategy of A Soul to Claim, knowing his general would likely end up in combat with my blob of Reapers. He out dropped me and surprised me by taking the first turn. I had been expecting to be given the first turn and had put both units of my Hexwraiths in deep strike. He put all of his shooting into the Spirit Torment and lifted it - I had put the Spirit Hosts in range of Olynder elsewhere on the board. He crashed into the Black Coach with his general and put a good thumping on it and then crashed two monsters into my Reapers and thumped them. On my turn I teleported the Black Coach to grab one of his objectives and used that battle tactic and then sent everything into his general as that was my grand strategy. It was a mistake as Olynder died, though I did lift the general. I got the double and raided an objective and put some hurt on another monster, but it wasn't enough. We ended with 3 turns complete and talked out the rest, but he had at that point almost tabled me (I think I had a unit of 5 Hexwraiths and the Krulghast left).
Mistakes were made on my part for sure and it was a bad matchup for my list.
Game 2 (Veins of Ghur)
Played another Emerald Host Nighthaunt list. This player had a less optimized list than me (Olynder/GoS/Spirt Torment/Kurdoss/Scriptor Mortis general/KoSoES/10 Bladegheists/10 Reapers/5 Craventhrone/5 Craventhrone/5 Hexwraiths/3 Spirit Hosts/3 Spirit Hosts). The Black Coach with support from Olynder and the Krulghast to level up just ended up laying waste to him. I kind of did a pincer from both flanks and just crushed him. I had him tabled by turn 3 and all three objectives fell on one side of the board. I had deepstruck my blob of 30 Reapers and all they did was lift a unit of Craventhrone Guard and camp on objectives.
Game 3 (First Blood)
Due to how badly I ran up the score in Game 2, I was actually 3rd at this point (it was only a 9 person tournament). Drew Morathi and the Bowsnakes. And the melee snakes. Yeesh, that book seems good is what I'll say. He gave me the first turn and I set up a unit of Hexwraiths to screen the center objective that I grabbed with my Reapers, and took the side objectives with a unit of Hexwraiths and the Black Coach. I actually had wanted to flank the Black Coach around a terrain piece and into his lines, but I failed a charge into his Witch Aelf screen. The bowsnakes double tapped into the Reapers, who actually held strong while the melee snakes got mind razored and charged into the Black Coach, who was out of range of my Krulghast. That thing got lifted so easily, I was shocked. Seeking vengeance, I sent my blob of 30 Reapers and Lady O into the melee snakes and lifted them in return. Both units of Hexwraiths had been cut down at this point by the Morathis and they started moving towards my Reapers while the bowsnakes double tapped them again and then charged. The Reapers held strong, but their output had been dropped and then they got charged by big Morathi, the snake hero, and little Morathi, while still fighting the bowsnakes and getting a double tap shot into them. Olynder got lifted at this point, but I had 3(6 thanks to the Spirit Torment) Reapers left that were able to retreat out and get me some points for an objective. I was in essence tabled by turn 4 apart from my Krulghast who had fled to the other side of the board (keeping a wizard alive was my GS this game) and we called it.
Final Thoughts
Like I said, I had a less than optimized list. But still, I have some thoughts:
The Good:
The Spirit Torment was great when it was used correctly.
The 30 Reapers were just a powerful tool. It took a ton of damage and focus from my opponents to get through them.
Lady Olynder did some work every game - even when she got deleted early, she had sniped a support ogor hero by Lifting the Veil.
I didn't mention The Emerald Curse, but I rolled well for it and it did some work. I was impressed by it.
Spirit Hosts annoyed me with how often they failed to bodyguard, but they were still great.
The Bad:
The Terminexus was great the one time I got it cast. I'd leave it at home in the future unless I had a better way of casting it.
The Ugly:
The Black Coach was the MVP of Game 2, and did nothing in the other games. I'm afraid that's typically how it will go. Just not a consistent, reliable piece.
The Hexwraiths I misused but they were still always helpful. Their output is definitely not great anymore though.
The Krulghast lands here. I thought he was an auto-take, but he does nothing in the mirror match and really did next to nothing against Daughters of Khaine. He helped in the first game, but not enough to change the outcome of anything. I definitely wouldn't take him without an arcane tome, as that at least gave him use every game.
A lot was learned, and a lot of fun was had. I can't wait to get in some more games with the new ghosts.
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16 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:
I agree, the meta is shifting and wards are increasing in prevalence. I'm not quite at assuming it's universal yet when you're just building a list and showing up somewhere. But, I fully endorse building Quicksilver against armies you are pretty sure will have wards.
There's a certain Cities of Sigmar list I'm dying to use Quicksilver against.
Was at an RTT yesterday and every army I faced pretty much had army wide wards: Beastclaw Raiders, Nighthaunt, and Daughters of Khaine. My opponent before that was Fyreslayers, who also have wards.
Add in Lumineth, Nurgle, Soulblight, OBR, Flesh-Eaters, Stormcast (Gardus, Bastian, Hammers of Sigmar)…
Quicksilver seems good.
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@EnixLHQ I think you miss a lot of nuance by calling NH lists hammer and anvil. While the basic strategy is simple, there’s a lot of similar or offshoot strategies.
Generally, I’d argue only 2.0 Nagash and Big Drogg were true hammers for us. Maybe a unit of 20 Bladegheists in Scarlet Doom now. So it wasn’t and doesn’t remain a strategy for us.
However, there are other reasons to create anvil style units: pinning enemy units, board control, dominating a more valuable objective, distraction pieces, Death Stars, etc.
Heroes that support this type of build include: Guardian of Souls, Spirit Torment, Krulghast, Lady Olynder, Nagash. Shademist and Discorporate support this.
I honestly don’t think there’s one right way to play Nighthaunt now… and that’s pretty cool.
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1 hour ago, Rachmani said:
So, to share some perspective.
I recently had a game not as NH but as Kruleboys against NH. I played a body heavy grinnin‘ blades army with only moderate shooting against Scarlet Doom with MSU and all in all a low wound count and absolutely smashed the living spirit out of my opponent.
I expected a different outcome but it seems that high volume attacks with some mortals output absolutely wrecks MSU NH.
We‘ll play a few games over the course of the next weeks, but so far low wound count seems to be problematic for NH armies. Saves are still good with 4+/5++ but super swingy. Too swingy imo. A block of „something“ seems to be needed to not lose the center and much needed board presence.
Yeah, this was something mentioned by Dayton Obre on the Party at the Allpoints podcasts. He said that he had 90 Bladegheists and still barely had them all survive a game. His thought IIRC was to go for a block of 20 Grims. But he thinks if you run MSU, you gotta lean in heavily and go for maximum redundancy.
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19 minutes ago, DionTheWanderer said:
A lot of people talking about stacking WoT - but other than the save modifier, it doesn’t stack, right?
best you can do is -1 to hit, no save and strike last, which given that requires multiple 8+ charges and at least one 10+ is both harder to get and arguably worse than the old WoT where you could fight twice.
You can stack -1 to hit so that the opponent gets no bonus from a +1 to hit from something like all out attack.
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Just catching up…
Back to the Black Coach discussion, I’d echo that I’m disappointed by it. I think the laser is situational and it’s more of a teleporting anvil - the problem is there’s just so many better options for the points cost. It also just doesn’t sync with the army. It’s too pretty not to use on occasion, but I’m not impressed.
Also, I’ll have to add the links to my blog post when I have time to sit down at a computer, but two podcasts dropped this week that talk about NH.
Cubic Shenanigans goes warscroll by warscroll and is worth a listen.
Party at the Allpoints goes into less detail, but also chats about them.
So if you’re a podcast person, look into those.
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19 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:
Yeah, I wish the site got the donations it needs to stay up all the time.
Gotta agree. Between Discord, Reddit, and Facebook; I'm in a lot of Nighthaunt discussions but this is the format that I enjoy the most.
Also, updated my blog with a few more reviews. The Warhammer Weekly one is definitely worth a listen/watch - I'd say Tom Lyons ended up as one of the best NH players with the previous battletome with his performance at Adepticon and now taking the old book to a 5-0 at Vault Wars.
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4 minutes ago, Rors said:
I would have thought it was the other way around. We easily get -1 to hit but only on our turn from WoT. Lord executioners, the artifact, and the spell work in the opponents turn with -1 to wound.
Yep, I'm probably wrong then. For some reason I thought both the LE and the artefact required you to charge, so my bad. Can't wait to have the actual book in my hands.
AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion
in Death
Posted · Edited by dmorley21
Battle Report Added
My thoughts:
Grieving Legion - Stock Down
You're going to use GV units to activate the subfaction ability to try to pin units. Unfortunately, bounty hunters will now blow up your pinning units unless you make a major investment. And even then, they'll get blown up more quickly. Still viable as an alpha pinning option - especially for some of the battleplans, but I'd say it's our weakest now.
Emerald Host - Stock Slightly Up
Opens up more versatility with the ability to keep both Bladegheists and Harridans as non-GV bounty hunters. About the same overall though.
Scarlet Doom - Stock Up
Bladegheist Revenants are bonkers now. I get that they can be bounty hunted, but honestly we've got ways to mitigate that.
Quicksilver Dead - Stock Way Up
Nurgle is the top tier army atm IMO, and this army hard counters them. It also is pretty good against DoK, LRL, Skaven, Hammers of Sigmar Stormcast, Hallowed Knights Stormcast, other Nighthaunt, Fyreslayers, and Monster Trucks Beastclaw Raiders. Plus all the random heroes that get ward saves or Death armies. And I probably forgot something.
Anyway, now your Harridans fight in two ranks, just pouring out attacks. So low save armies or armies relying on wards will just melt. And you have access to Purple Sun of Shyish, giving your Harridans another way to get rend. Just ace.
As for how to play in the new meta - I think you'll want MSU or blocks of 30 for your troops. Blocks of 20 seem like the perfect bounty hunter target, whereas a block of 30 will be a monumental task for your opponent to lift, even with their best bounty hunter hammers.
EDIT: Got my first game in yesterday (Olynder / Guardian of Souls (general/auto cast) / Krulgahst (arcane tome) / Spirit Torment / 1x3 Spirit Hosts / 2x10 Chainrasps / 1x5 Hexwraiths / 1x30 Bladegheists/1x4 Myrmourns) playing The Prize of Galletia against OBR (Katakros / 2 wizard heroes / 2 x 20 Mortek / 1 x 6 Stalkers / 1 x 5 Deathriders / Catalpult).
My opponent conceded at the bottom of 3 as I was up 15-5 at that point and my opponent had his catapult, Katakros, and 5 Mortek left while I hadn't lost a single unit and had minimal losses at that point. Everything put in some work, but the Chainrasps deep stirking for an extra victory point to nap two battle tactics (the new savage spearhead one and then the grab an opponent's terrain) was really clutch.