dmorley21

1. It's annoying, but I'm not somebody who collects a pile a shame. So it takes me a while to build and then paint... so the price is much more spread out for me than somebody who just buys whatever is new. 2. The app has fixed a lot of that - for now. I can find the rules for everything I need in the app. 3. I don't think that's true. Kruleboyz have not done overly well. People were pretty down on Nurgle (though I think it's a good book). I think largely it's just the nature of the new edition - that left certain armies behind. 4. That's just not true IMO. That happened back when I played WHFB, but every army save Nurgle and Idoneth had a book in 2nd edition, and those two had books right before and now seemingly at the beginning of 3rd edition, plus got lots of supplemental updates. I think people have gotten too used to instantaneous results; I'm actually quite pleased with the rate books and armies get updated. 5. Annoying, but easy enough to find them secondhand. 6. What debacle? I enjoyed the most recent FAQ/balance update, and appreciate that FAQs are now in the app. 7. I just don't buy stuff unless it's for an army I'm currently working on/playing. If I feel I need a limited release model after the fact, I can always get second hand for an upcharge. Typically, I just feel like I don't need it after the fact.

@That Guy No, it’s a rumor engine pic. And the bottom 5 are 99% 40k. I don’t follow the game/lore, but there’s an Eldar model that it clearly is a remake of.

One of the rumor engines looks like it could be part of a boat and also has Nighthaunt style metalwork. That’s it.

Correct. Typically works best on a larger unit, though I used it to great effect on game on a unit of 10 Harridans.

Haha it was me that pointed that out to him. Glad I did as I’ll be at the same tournament as him… hopefully also with Nagash and ghosts. Edit: Just want to add that after only two test games, I think he’s absolutely correct about Nagash’s weakness being mobility. 9” move and fly seems decent, but he’s half your army and just can be everywhere. I also agree that Nagash’s command ability can be a trap, but I think he undersold its power due to the lists he runs. A blob of… anything with an ethereal save and then a 4+ Ward save (Krulghast) is really tanky.

No, I phrased that poorly as I typed too quickly. Before T1 he did a Sneaky Move where he was able to redeploy the Idol anywhere on the board 9” away. I still gave away the first turn and he was able to take out a unit of Hexes. I then deepstruck Olynder and 5 more Hexes on T2.

Got in a game with the "Super Friends" build (Nagash / Mannfred / Olynder / 3 x 5 Hexwraiths) against a shooty Kruleboyz list. I deepstruck Olynder and 5 Hexes. He did the redeploy on a Rogue Idol which wiped 5 Hexes on turn 1. Otherwise, Nagash did all the heavy lifting while Mannfred teleported around the board grabbing objectives and charged in to finish off the general once. A couple takeaways: It's fun, but not the strongest list IMO. The lack of heroes to give Wards to Hexwraiths definitely hurts. Mannfred continues to be great due to his teleport and his warscroll spell when it goes off. However, I don't think he's worth it with Nagash though in a NH list. Lady Olynder has disappointed me both times I've used her in a Nagash list. Starting to wonder if bringing her is the right play and leaning towards no. But still want to try her out some more. Nagash remains great. Just does so much. Also, Nagash is tanky! On my opponent's turn 2, Nagash had already taken 4 wounds. My opponent blasted him with a unit of 9 Man-Skewer Boltboyz, a unit of 5 Boltboyz (1 had died), some Hobgrots, and then attacked him in melee with the Mirebrute Trogotth and Sludgeraker Beast. ...and Nagash survived with 1 wound! Mystic Shield/Finest Hour/All Out Defense... the save stacking he can do is great and the 4+ against mortals is as well.

If true, I’d hope Cities of Sigmar. They already have unique cities that could easily be their own battletomes as many of the cities work in different factions of order. It could make for a really ecosystem for Order armies. A new kit could be both Living City and Sylvaneth. But it would probably be Lumineth.

@EnixLHQ Gotcha. I’m expecting a lot of the army to change significantly in terms of rules honestly. Stuff changed pretty significantly for Stormcast, Ironjawz, Bonesplitterz, and Nurgle if I’m not mistaken.

I've played Warhammer since the 90's and that's literally never been the case. Back then it was, if there wasn't a new range for a book, your faction just got ignored. I much prefer the way it is today with 5-10 books a year, some big updates and some just a new hero along with a new battletome. New Hexwraith models would be great, though with it being a dual kit for another faction I'm not sure how they would go about doing that. I also expect a sprue of the heroes from Soul Wars that you can't get elsewhere. I do disagree about centerpieces though. While Olynder, Reikenor, and Kurdoss are all great models; I don't think they're centerpieces and I don't think GW views them that way either. Just look at the price point. The Black Coach very much is a centerpiece and I'm really hoping for better rules for it. I'm building a Stormcast force right now, so a comparison is that I and many people love the Bastian Carthalos model but he's not a true army centerpiece the way the dragons are. I'm also more likely to bring Olynder (with current rules) if I'm also bringing one (or both!) of Nagash and/or Mannfred right now. I just find that she works better as a second threat and not the focal point of my forces. As for what we're getting, I'm guessing it'll be revealed at LVO, which is the end of January. I'm also guessing that we're either getting a significant behemoth hero (the ghost boat idea seems to fit for me... it could be a defensive/resurrecting centerpiece while the Black Coach gets new rules to become a more offensive centerpiece) or multiple new heroes. I haven't seen anything that tells me we're getting new units yet, but we could be surprised! I'm also planning to bring a Nagash ghost list to a 2-day event the first weekend of February - so hopefully I'll be getting in more reps with him soon!

That would actually make sense since the current one isn’t available. And while I’ll still be surprised if true, it looks like more than one model between the teaser video and rumor engines. We’ll see. If anything, I’m hopeful because I think the three 3.0 books have all been solid.

Not worth arguing. If you’re going to a tourney, ask the TO. If you’re playing to get reps in or just casually, I’d suggest not using it to give your opponent a better game and to have the reps in just in case it changes. Just my two cents.

@Nagashfan Awesome. I like PotFW on the Krulghast; that might be the way to go over midnight tome. Did you feel like you needed the bodyguard for Nagash? And how did the Spirit Hosts do?

You know my take if I’m not mistaken: RAW, yes; but there’s no way an unkillable Nagash is not getting fixed. Ask your TO, and don’t use the bodyguard for him in casual games is my recommendation. Emerald Host/Hexwraiths are still a good combo for him as they take full advantage of his resurrection rules and have good speed, which is Nagash’s main weakness.

Nope - that came from 4chan. We all know anything from there is far from reliable. So we’ll see. There have been rumor engines that point to Nighthaunt. Assuming Idoneth comes out first, it will be the oldest book. And I did hear it mentioned on the cubic shenanigans podcast that one of the hosts heard rumors from publishers that Nighthaunt would be soon. I’d be surprised if it’s not this year. In the meantime, having Nagash is a breath of fresh air and Nagash lists should really be different than other Nighthaunt lists.

I like it a lot. One fun trick is sending the Krulghast with the Harridans in this build. They get a 4+e/5+ and then with Nagash's command you can give the Spirit Hosts the same. Nagash is held back a bit in the early game without Spellportal. So about Mannfred - I brought him to a 2-day event back in October as my ally and he was my MVP every single game. He can give himself an Arcane Bolt, charge in, unleash it and stomp, and then just flee. He's great at snatching objectives and getting a battle tactic with a monster. His warscroll spell is tough to get off, but pretty good. He also synergizes with Nighthaunt because he provides the monster keyword and his playstyle of movement shenanigans matches the rest of the army. He also doesn't need any support. Just watch out for something like Longstrikes. As for your list, I like it but don't really think a unit of 10 Grimghasts brings anything to the table. They need to be reinforced to be worth taking. Another unit of Hexwraiths would probably work better. Yeah, this is true. You can run MSU with Nagash returning models to each unit as long as the unit doesn't get wiped. Or you can focus on one anvil that is a 4+e/4+. I'm not sure if one is better than the other.

It’s just occurring to me that Nagash isn’t an ally. I think this means we can still take allies. As such, I present The Super Friends: Allegiance: Nighthaunt- Procession: Emerald Host- Mortal Realm: Ghur- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery- Triumphs: LeadersNagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead(970)- AlliesMannfred von Carstein, Mortarch of Night(380)- AlliesLady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (215)Battleline10 x Chainrasp Horde (95)5 x Hexwraiths (150)5 x Hexwraiths (150)Total: 1960 / 2000Reinforced Units: 0 / 4Allies: 1350 / 400Wounds: 65Drops: 6

Okay, sorry about the quick little comment. It was a long game earlier today when I had some time off, but then got busy. Anyway, it was my first game using Nagash. My list was: Emerald Host / Prized Sorcery Nagash / Olynder (General, Reaping Scythe) / Krulghast (Midnight Tome / Reaping Scythe) 5 Hexwraiths / 5 Hexwraiths / 5 Hexwraiths / 10 Harridans Spellportal / Burning Head I played against Rocco (RoccoYaBoy on YouTube and Twitter) on TTS. He was running a new iteration of a Deepkin list he's been thinking about, so it was a learning game for us both. I might get his list a bit wrong, but it was: Mor'Phann / Dominating Presence Isharann Tidecaster (general) / Souldrender / Soulrender / Aspect of the Sea 20 Reavers / 10 Thralls / 10 Thralls / 3 Ishlaen Guard / 3 Ishlaen Guard / 3 Ishlaen Guard Leviadon I won't go blow for blow, but we played Tectonic Interference. He was cool with Hexwraiths bodyguarding Nagash, but I decided not to play it that way because I want to know how good he is at his worse. Answer: pretty, pretty good. I called it after 3 turns though the game would have gone done to the wire due to time (it took us 4 1/2 hours to get to that point... we were very much learning). In that time though, Nagash: Shutdown every opposing spell but one in turns 2 and 3 (placed him out of range turn 1) Along with Olynder, kept the two nearby units of Hexwraiths alive through some serious damage (they combine to res 4) Singlehandedly went in and killed the Aspect of the Sea (had a 2+ and 5+ ward) Singlehandedly went in and got broken ranks taking out the unit of Reavers and gaining a bonus point Healed back all of the wounds that he took through Lifestealer and his warscroll spell. The due does work. I was losing by a decent amount when I called it, but was clawing my way back in and would've come close to tabling the Idoneth. I'm not sure my list was optimized, and I definitely made mistakes. I went with models I already owned apart from Nagash and the spells. It's going to take some playtesting - you can't just show up with Nagash and think you can win. But he brings everything Nighthaunt have ever wanted and changes the game for the ghosts. When I called it, the casualties were: 10 Hexwraiths / 10 Harridans 7 Ishlaen Guard (2 units of 1 left) / 20 Reavers / 6 Thralls / Aspect of the Sea So even though I was a very low wound list, I was more than making up for it with my output. I don't remember ever thinking that with a Nighthaunt list in the past. On that note, happy holidays. Hope some of you get to give Nagash a test run or two.

Got my first game in with Nagash… Wow! Changes things for us even more than I thought.

This is why I think it needs to be cleared up. I've had two TOs tell me it does work, as it's not giving Nagash the allegiance ability. I'm expecting it to get FAQ'd at some point in the future.

It doesn't fix the army. It means the army is the same as before, or has Nagash lists. I honestly will not be surprised to see Nagash Nighthaunt lists go 4-1 or 5-0 at two day events, whereas I'm always impressed and surprised to see Nighthaunt lists do that.

Allegiance: Nighthaunt - Procession: Emerald Host - Mortal Realm: Ghur - Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery - Triumphs: Bloodthirsty Leaders Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead (970)* Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (215)* - General - Lore of the Underworlds: Reaping Scythe Battleline 5 x Hexwraiths (150)* 5 x Hexwraiths (150)* 5 x Hexwraiths (150)* 5 x Hexwraiths (150)* Behemoths Black Coach (220)* Core Battalions *Battle Regiment Total: 2005 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 0 / 4 Allies: 970 / 400 Wounds: 75 Drops: 1 or Allegiance: Nighthaunt - Procession: Emerald Host - Mortal Realm: Ghur - Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery - Triumphs: Bloodthirsty Leaders Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead (970) - Allies Krulghast Cruciator (120) - General - Command Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts - Artefact: Midnight Tome - Reaping Scythe Spirit Torment (115) - Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (135) - Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist Battleline 30 x Grimghast Reapers (465)* - Reinforced x 2 10 x Chainrasp Horde (95)* 10 x Chainrasp Horde (95)* Core Battalions *Hunters of the Heartlands **Command Entourage - Magnificent Total: 1995 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 2 / 4 Allies: 970 / 400 Wounds: 82 Drops: 7

The people I've talked with are in agreement with you. I was thinking it wouldn't work initially, but seem to have been wrong.

This was my thinking... but it will need an FAQ. A few TOs I've talked with say he does get the bodyguard ability because it's the Hexwraiths that are granted the ability to just bodyguard your "general." He does count as the general. I expect that will be cleared up, as giving him Hexwraith bodyguard would be rather powerful. I'm not a Nagash guy at all. However, it's insane how much his inclusion changes things for Nighthaunt. He makes every other unit better and opens up some really strong builds.

It’s funny because I was actually super down on Hexwraiths in 3.0. I was running a unit of 5 and a unit of 10 in Death Riders/Emerald Host for a hot sec and they were soooo good. Then 3.0 happened and I only ran 2 units of 2 as bodyguard and all they did was die. I’m interested to try them with a different mindset. This is good, but Nighthaunt don’t need a patch in casual games IMO. I find they do quite well against weaker lists or players that aren’t super competitive due to the combo of Fly/Ethereal/Movement Shenanigans.