mmimzie
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Posts posted by mmimzie
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22 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:
Anyone else having as hard a time picking out spells as I am? XD
I have 5 casters (3 mortal, 1 daemon, 1 both), and I keep changing my mind. XD
I seem to remember us having a separate thread to deeply discuss all our spell options and their best uses when the 1E book dropped. Curious to hear peoples thoughts.I think if you have an LoC with buffs on a gaunt summoner Arcane suggestion is really really good its diverse, but more than likely you'll take -1 save or -1 hit/wound.
If destiny dice stay alittle broke like they are or if they let LoC's use the dice, right glimpse is pretty alright.
Honestly though i don't rate the mortal lore spells highly due to either weak affects or overly high casting values with limited access to buffs. So thier spells are hit and miss.
As for daemon spells they all remain the same with treason of tzneetch getting a bump and uncheck mutation being quite a lot worse. Treason gives that nice little -1 to hit debuff and combine with suggestion is really strong for shutting down units. More so if the gemnids get involved. -
1 minute ago, rockmanko said:
Oh no
But is skyfires a good option?so maybe need play as proxy then
yiou can build as both don't worry
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8 minutes ago, SwashBuccaneer said:
@rockmanko I don't think the disc birds in the box give an option to build them as 6 Skyfires or 6 Enlightened. When I opened mine to pull out the KO stuff I looked the directions over and they're 3 enlightened and 3 skyfires.
untrue it does make both. The directions just tell you to make 3 of each, but it's just 2 boxes of enlightend.
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1 hour ago, MattyP said:
ah, ok. sorry.....Reposting.
here they are again.
1 Guild of Summoners
2 Eternal conflagration-changhost
3 Host Arcanum
The Blue Scribes (120)
Fluxmaster, Herald of Tzeentch on Disc (130)
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240) - General
The Changeling (120)
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160)
UNITS
20 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (400)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
20 x Kairic Acolytes (200)
9 x Screamers of Tzeentch (240)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Tome of Eyes (40)
Prismatic Palisade (30)
Burning Sigil of Tzeentch (40)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Soulsnare Shackles (40)
TOTAL: 2000/2000The Changeling (120)
Lord of Change (380) - General
The Blue Scribes (120)
Fateskimmer, Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot (140)
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
UNITS
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (240)
20 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (400)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
BATTALIONS
Changehost (180)
TOTAL: 1990/2000Lord of Change (380) - General
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
Magister on Disc of Tzeentch (140)
Gaunt Summoner on Disc of Tzeentch (260)
UNITS
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (360)
6 x Screamers of Tzeentch (160)
9 x Screamers of Tzeentch (240)
20 x Kairic Acolytes (200)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Prismatic Palisade (30)
Soulsnare Shackles (40)
Burning Sigil of Tzeentch (40)
Thanks a lot for the fix. Since you took the effort to fix it up. I'll do the effort of giving you my thoughts.
For the guild of summoners I might consider an LoC in the list. It does a lot to help you reach that spell threshold to summoning another LoC. If you do guild you want to make sure you will summon an LoC. I love the 200 man pink squad. You may also consider sneaking in the bridge. I'd also find room for gimnids and pendulum
Etneral coonflag: I'd drop the skimmer for a change casters and make the unit of 10 Pinks a second 6 man flamer squad. Maaaybe? That's knit picking, but I feel it lacks some punch.
Host arcanum: if get the enlightend to 9 man. You want to hit really hard.otherwise you've got all the important tools. Definitely use the -1 to hit and wound spell on the gaunt summoner. So you can protect your enlightened.
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12 minutes ago, MattyP said:
So, been playing around with some list ideas from new tome.
The first is the Eternal Conflag. w/ Changehost battalion
EternalConflagration-Changehostlist.pdf 5.73 MB · 2 downloads
This one is Guild of Summoners Coven
GuildofSummonersList.pdf 5.73 MB · 2 downloads
This one is just the Host Arcanum Coven
HostArcanumlist.pdf 5.73 MB · 1 download
Post em up as text but use the spoiler thing so we can hide them. Some of use use our phone or don't want to download a file, but are interested in commenting.
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1 hour ago, Grimrock said:
Someone mentioned this before, but it bears repeating because people keep missing it. Battleshock tests work by taking your roll and modifying it with the number of casualties. In the new rules when destiny dice are used, the roll can no longer be modified or rerolled. That means any destiny dice, from a 1 to a 6, makes horrors immune because the roll is always less than 10. Doesn't matter if you've lost 40 models in one go, that modifier is ignored once you use a destiny dice.
I wouldn't tell anyone thinking of buy more model to build a list with this in mind. This is very liable to change with an FAQ, and change is what our god does.
That said by this same token your destiny dice also ignore rend
29 minutes ago, MattyP said:What are people's thoughts on the Host Duplicitous Change Coven? I like the sound of it but wondering on the thoughts of more experienced players
It interest me Abit as well. It definitely would have to be a wizard heavy list and likely no battalion. Thankfully, that +1 save artifact looks quite good on a LoC. LoC and 2 or 3 change casters would be a powerful spell engine and you'd like cast almost all your spells letting you maybe summon some blues up the table to contest.
The command ability is us less, but the no retreat is amazing even more so against armies like skaven.
It the one coven that threats to take me from guild of summoners.
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7 hours ago, Cambot1231 said:
I've been hearing a lot of groans about Darkfire demonrift being bent from podcasts, forums, etc. People saying that this spell takes entire ARMIES off the table. is this really justified? I look at it on paper and think okay on the higher average you have 4 wizards in range? The spell moves over one enemy unit and ends within an inch of another enemy unit. So Bam two unit take 6 mortal wounds. That is powerful but not unlike other tzeentch mortal wound spells.
Endless spells also exist. YOu can pretty reasonably get up to maybe 10 mortal wounds kill like most small characters and dramatically injurying others. using this in DoT can be worse as you can even take battleline wizards for 100 pts a pop.
Gaunt summonerr also make this worse as each gaunt themselve spawn another wizard unit each in the form of pink horrors.
here is a easy slaves version:
4x Gaunt summoner One as general with master ritualist or whatever
Lord of change allie
5x marauder horsemen
5x marauder horsemen
5x marauder horsemen
Splinter fang
Untamed
Geminids
Prismatic palisade
suffocating gravetide
Umbral spell portal
Rift
The lord of change uses CP to give +1 to cast and then you sac splintered fang for the cabal and heal a snake back later. The unmade because you can screen up another 6" out to be all tactical or whatever.
Rift can do 14 damage per unit, and thats on top of access to a spell portaled tzneetch's inferno, geminids, gaunt sumoner anti horde, 40 shooting pinks, and whatever else. List could be made better with min maurder squads charging from teleport. -
33 minutes ago, newsun said:
Just like 40k much of this can be mitigated somewhat with los blocking terrain and generally more. 4-5th Ed 40k had same issue with t1 sitting people off the board. Though it does still look super strong.
On a side note what do people think about 9 enlightened on disc? The 120 price increase since I last played has me dismayed.
More terrain in aos tends to make the game bar for everyone you lose a lot of melee effectiveness if you have the really crowded tables and house ruling 40k requires to be playable.
@Gwendar I think the flamers are quite strong. If they are too strong it's a nerf to flamers that is required and not needing all of change host. I'd much sooner see flamers removed from change host as horrors are quite fine in change host.
That said I don't quite see flamers as particularly over powered. They have great shooting but they are glass. 30 sisters of the watch with nomad prince buff against any unit of any size can put out the exact damage out as 12 flamers hitting and wounding on 2s for the points. The sisters of the watch can use the living cities paths to appear from board edges so movement is more restricted, but they don't have to take a battalion and have a few more wounds for the points
Flamers seem quite good, but they also feel fair enough. It's not much worse than stuff cities can do and the most extreme part is that it's a one drop.
I think if a nerf is in need for flamers I'd drop them from change host or make them 12" range. As +20-30pts would make them worse than sisters or the watch.
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2 hours ago, Spears said:
Its a minimal drop reduction and you can only actually use the second artefact if realm artefacts are in play and you are running two characters other than Archaon. So realistically that probably looks like:
Archaon 800
Varanguard * 3 900
sorcerer lord 110
lord 110
Total 1920
leaving a whopping 80 points to spend elsewhere and still being 4 drops. Like I say its certainly not likely to break anything.
So this actually is a good drop amount. You'll out drop a number of top meta list so long as you stay under 5 drops. Every pick over 6 sees your chances of out dropping a random tournament opponent considerably.
6 drops for instance will see you out dropped by all of my lists save for one of my skaven list, and some likey deepkin are brutal if you get out dropped.
Where as 4 drops put you under everything but my tzneetch list.
4-5 drops or less is the only time you should care about drop 6 and more I wouldn't even think about my drop count and focus more on just making the list as solid as possible.
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59 minutes ago, skeen77 said:
I know right? People were adamant and saying there's no way it could be translated any other way. Common sense dictated it was no mixed weapons.
It was that you could definitely mix weapons as per previous FAQs. That's why they had to do an errata and reword it. Otherwise they would have made it a question and given that answer that all models had the same weapon. It was worded in a way that you could mix weapons.
People who said you could mix weapons were completely correct they changed that.
16 minutes ago, Satyrical Sophist said:So what's the best chaos warrior load out now? I'm probably going for shields since the new models are the nicest.
Shield if you have outside buffs from a word Lord or warscrhine for your rerolls arguments can be made for the 2" weapon in big units.
40 minutes ago, Spears said:I think it could legitimately be 0 points without breaking anything.
It's be a 0 pt artifact and cp and reduced drop count. Many if not most battalions a e taken for thier impact on drop, artifacts, and cp and less so on the ability they provide.
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Most we saw coming to be honest.
The archaon stuff was all weird. I'm not overly suprized by his command ability change. I think its still quite good know whose going first next round is quite good insurance. It lets you play around a double only when it's coming up. Very freeing that.
Disappointed but not suprized by the nurgle daemon prince change. It definitely needed to be changed, but now it's not worth the cost of admission. Atleast the khorne one is still quite good.
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22 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:
The purpose of Screamers is to fly around the board and go objective to objective late in the game. They can win the game for you if you know how to play them.
My 3 man scream squad objectives for most of the game tying up a 20 man unit of mortec guard for 2 turns as they stayed just out of objective grabbing range.
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1 hour ago, Nagash42 said:
So how many LOC's did you summon? What was your list? I'm thinking of trying summoners for my first go with the new book I haven't played Tzeentch in awhile.
I summoned two and we called it in the third turn.
My list was
LoC W/ Feather Charm General (Bolt of Tzneetch)
Fateskimmer W/Brimestone familiar (Tzneetch's Firestorm)
Change Caster (Unchecked Mutation)
Change Caster (fold reality)
Fluxmaster (Treason of Tzneetch)
10xPink
10xpink
10xpink
3xScreams
Change HostPendulum, Purple sun, Geminids, Suffocatiing grave tide, balewind
Would swap out grave tide and sun for spell portal.
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Working on the wings for my 2nd Lord of change.
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23 hours ago, Acid_Nine said:
Yea this was the list I was concerned about, and yes this is a major issue of balance from what myself and at least two other people in my game store has thought about. This is the kind of list that could just kill the game from what I have seen, and kinda makes me pessimistic for AoS. But, the sky hasn't fallen yet, and I didn't build / paint 2,500 points of idoneth just to give up now. At least this could deal with the Petrifax elite problem people have been having, but from what I see I don't know if there is a counter to this.
Kinda makes me wonder how this made it past the play testers. Everything in the book seems at least passable, but this seems like the sky is actually falling.
Deepkin are quite Hardy against shooting bringing allies to soak shooting is definitely an option. All shooting attack gave to be picked at the same time for each unit. So the tzneetch player can only attack the outside of your bubble. Also multiple soulpriest the +3 charge guys can let you get on that quick flamers. Heck even a shark could ruin the day for a unit of flamers.
I think the shooting is strong, but hollow heart has had just as strong if not stronger shooting and magic.
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3 minutes ago, Neffelo said:
Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking as well. I only have 1 LoC and I have him with the sword right now. I haven't decided if I am going to get a second LoC and/or Kairos yet.
I went and got 2 more the 2nd I found out I could easily summon them. Did guild of summoners with them last night and have no regrets
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7 minutes ago, Neffelo said:
did you use the sword, beak or Rod?
I have them. Built all 3 ways but did the general with the sword as he's painted. Both melee options are about the same. And only really matter if you take the artifact.
I think the rod is a hair bit better. It does a tiny bit more damage on your turn, and sort of acts like a 3rd spell. Also has more threat range than melee.
Of the two melee the beak is best out of the box with no upgrades.
Sword does most damage with buffs.
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40 minutes ago, Neffelo said:
Yeah,
Screamers just getting a minor points drop was baffling, they really needed something.
What is everyone's view on the LoC Loadout now? I was really hoping we'd be able to use our beaks and claws with our rod or sword now, but that's not the case.
Ran my LoC in guild of summoner and man it was pretty strong. He was general of my change host, and I gave him the feather charm.
I think with access to one drop I'd probably give the Lord of change a more aggressive artifact. As you can keep your LoC relatively safe from most attacks by just picking to go first or 2nd depending on match up. So mutability if you have lots of shooting. Otherwise wellspring is not a bad artifact making his cast and unbinds pretty much unstoppable.
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39 minutes ago, MattyP said:
unfortunately the new update has changed this and when making a 2 dice roll (i.e. casting) and you want to use DD, you must use 2 DD for the roll instead of rolling one and using DD for one.
@Gwendar yeah this is my point. You must use 2 dice for these rolls, now the other destiny die changing is fine. I guess it gives you something to do with your 2s it your bring a Lord of change. But you have to lock the whole roll using destiny dice as per the new wording is Abit different and tighter than the old ruling as it says you must use dice for 2d6 rolls.
It would require another faq just as before required the FAQ to turn it back.
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2 minutes ago, Tobjen99 said:
Hi, I wonder how the tzangores are in the new battletome?
I wished they got their own coven, but sadely they did not.
Most melee stuff will find Thier biggest assistance in beast of chaos or slaves to darkness endless spells.
From tzneetch the +1 attack agenda is relatively easy to get and last the whole game. Then we have the sigil endless spell for more damage buffs.
Our powerful wizards can use geminids and treason of tzneetch to borderline neuter enemy units of thier offensive ability.
Fatmaster also give blanket hit rerolls which is another very strong melee buff.
This is where you'll find most of your melee bonuses that you won't get in beast or slaves
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For casting spells with destiny dice are we required to spend 2 destiny dice? When reading the rule its seems that may be the case
Also seems like Lords of change can't really use destiny dice any more?? As the dice can not be modified or rerolled?
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14 minutes ago, The_Dudemeister said:
Wail of the Damned is a missile attack and therefore happens in the shooting phase. 🙂
Btw, I think it's weird that Lady Olynder's version of Wail of the Damned is not a missile attack even though it also happens in the shooting phase. That's a pretty substantial buff seeing how, as an ability instead of a missile attack, you can use it after running and retreating.
Yeah it is now. That post is 3 years old. The rules have changed.
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Yes both enlightend units work as they have the same name with a sub title.
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2 hours ago, GeneralZero said:
Remember that horrors don't do much, they are super glass canon. They are here to slow enemy or keep control of an objective but they are not really efficient after that. And they are so slow.
They are the opposite of glass cannon. 50 wounds for 200pts is really durable mind you.
That durable to point is like sequitors reroll saves and clanrats base. So they are well worth it and even at min size squads can potentially survive some powerful charges as long as you have battle shock protections. This durability can be buffed with access to a few -1 to hit buffs.
Damage output wise they are Abit lower than some and I wouldn't call them a can. They can be buffed alot to make them quite decent, but they aren't at the level of hand gunners and such for Thier points.
As for slow this is list dependent. As a ranged unit they can make great use of the bridge and in a powerful magic army bridge is very reliable, and the bridge can be used to protect said Pink's behind it or to help block charges if placed right. Alternatively one can use change host to move them around.
This said while they are quite cost effective for tier job, they have a high base price meaning full squads will take a decent and they quickly become and investment, and not something you add as an after thought.
Lastly, using destiny dice to protect Pink's from heavy battleshock loss isn't really an option as Pink's die first and thus your banner dies after 10 wounds. Meaning you loose your banner quite quick under any really pressure, and with it the protection destiny dice rolls of one provide your horror squads. This is the real down side as battleshock immunity will be very important to them, and having cp I'm the bank to protect them will matter.
For this reason I think guild of summoners is quite good. While you lose your damage buffs fr eternal conflagration and the extra -1 to hit. You gave battle shock immunity and bonus cp which is the real benefit from taking the coven. While summoning cheap LoC is quite a decent buff/trade off.
Pinks outside of the guild should really consider vortemis to run along side your Pink's as he can generate CP for ignoring battleshock on his own and now has a reduced price tag.
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AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
part of the problem there is he might do more damage jut casting his own personal spell.