Beliman
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Posts posted by Beliman
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13 minutes ago, Cdance93 said:
FS absolutely holds the title of "OPG Army"
I suppose that's the Duardin curse.
KOs have 2/4 Battle Traits that are once-per-battle, all 3 artifacts (remember that we don't have prayers, manifestations or lores) are once-per-battle, the first previewed Battle Foramtion is once-per-battle.
Let's hope for the best, Fyreslayers deserve a lot more.
15 minutes ago, Grungnisson said:IDK, after the first read, I am hugely underwhelmed and disappointed, to be honest. I'm suspecting the only people cheering these changes are the people, who used to play against KO, not KO players.
There are a lot of tricks and keyword interactions. Don't give up, our movement is still key, and it seems that our gameplay will not be as restricted as before.
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3 hours ago, madmac said:
Yeah, at first scroll-through of the new rules I was like "Ok, seems basically the same, no big deal" but on re-read it's considerably less inspiring. No Code, transports nerfed in multiple ways, no sky ports(this is common to all armies, but I liked the Sky-Ports) no allegiance abilities at all if you aren't using boats. It's the blandest take we've seen on KO since 1st edition, which is on brand for 4E but still, eh. Arkanaught companies not being reinforced is also a huge hit to ground tactics and infantry tactics generally. Skywardens still seem like an option that has no reason to exist, ect.
Yeah, still digesting the faction focus. Tomorrow I will try to analyze everything.
Our gameplay (appart from kangaroo-jumping) seems to be the same, so nothing big will change (we need to adapt our style with the Grundstock Expedition type of movement):
- Shooting lists will still get the same, with maybe the khemist still buffind rend (I only saw some rend in profiles with 1 or 2 attacks, appart from fumigator/decksweeper). Just play with 10 thunderes and try to do the same as before.
- Boarding armies will have a bit more difficulty without anything that gave them a 3D6 charge, I suppose that we are going to rotate our Footnote to that Run+Charge of Brokk and probably Admirals (no CP required, but once-per-battle in this edition, thx @Cdance93) . Still not Charge Bonus for balloon boyz with skypikes.
And most units are still fragile for being Duardins, and losing +1 save to be in our ships doesn't help. Btw, not a complain, I'm fine with this.
My only issue is less about the rules and more about what made me buy the army (appart from the miniatures itself): Vehicles and The Code. I hope to see the Code is somehow represented in some models (Codewright), and maybe a future "module" with vehicles (beasts transporting troops with a howda seems really fun), but I think that the boat has already sailed.
Edit: Btw, still taking notes, there is a lot of wording and abilities keywords that I think it let us play with a lot of movement shenanigans. Btw, if any GW rules-writer is reading this, can you change the name of this faction to Kharadron Once-per-game Lords?
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3 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:
Without knowing too much in deep the KO lore, how likely is that KO ends up being a 50/50 melee and range army? To me they look like a 90% range army with little room for melee. What references do they have to be able to expand that melee side?
Most books have more melee/boarding action that plain range shooting (appart from aerial combat between shipt vs ship).
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1 minute ago, Ragest said:
I think anyone has neglected FS or talked about FS, we are talking about Kharadron there.
And if both FS and KO need more minis the solution seems simple
but you won't like it.
Your solution is simple. Not mine.
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2 minutes ago, Ragest said:
What "need of new units" means.
Have you cheked DoK? 1/3 of their minis come in the same box and more than half the minis are fantasy minis.
OBR is just the same elite baseline, and is played with the spam of the same elite baseline + they guy that can buff the best elite baseline to the most.
KBZ is directly a disaster. Just two foot melee units, and one of them are not even orruks and another foot shooting mini with an artillery. The rest? All heroes. You just can't convince me KO need something more than them.
You misunderstood my points. I'm not trying to convince you, I just pointed out that I think that KOs and FS are good candidates for 2nd wave.
As @BarakUrbazsaid above, this arguments are pointless because only GW knows what's behind the curtains and probably uses other inputs to for new waves that players don't know or ignore.
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15 minutes ago, Nezzhil said:
Ogors are gonna be updated for sure and they are gonna have one of the bigger updates of the edition.
Maybe. But that doesn't mean that KOs or Fyrslayers doesn't need new waves.
13 minutes ago, Xil said:What does KO need? I mean, the designspace for them is limited. Their 'cavalary' are the ballon dudes and small gunhaulers. It would be weird for them to be on horses.
A lot. Elite-melee units, duelist heroes, defensive foot-troops, new ships (dedicated transports, offensive skyvessel, etc...), and any type of specialist unit that is not a "shoot" or "shoot-more" (megalith miners, corsairs, etc...). Btw, balloon boys are just shock troops, more close to light cavalry than a heavy cavalry.
13 minutes ago, Xil said:IDK and DoK need units to help them have more diverse builds and not just play the same things over and over again.
Like KOs and Fyrslayers then. And remember that FS were released in 2016...
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22 minutes ago, Ragest said:
Nah, sorry.
You can't come and say now that namartis are the elite of IDK with that model representation and all the lore behind, same with witch aelves, or do the opposite in OBR saying now stalkers are the chaff.
Everyone wants new minis all the time, but there are armies that need a fix in their roster, there are armies with fantasy kits that have to go out the game, there are armies that receive tons of minis just because popularity, and then we have Kharadron, that have a nice represented roster, all new minis and is not very popular.
I know. But KOs and Fyreslayers are part of the first ones that are in need of new miniatures.
24 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:Idoneth, Ogors and DoK. Idoneth just before KO.
Disagree
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1 minute ago, Ragest said:
Kharadron have little number of minis, but every unit fills a role and have an archetype (well, maybe KO don’t have cavarly per se, but their battle traits work like that)
Roles are tied to rules, rewrite the rules to fill the role that is missing. I'm talking about new models.
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Just now, Ragest said:
There are too many factions that desperatly need an expansion/renovation that I can’t see room for Kharadron to receive something tuis edition
I can't see any faction that should recieve a new wave of miniatures before Fyreslayers or Kharadrons Overlords.
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40 minutes ago, Someravella said:
Voodoo kruleboyz incoming.
That sounds awesome
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First of all, removing 3.0 Order's system and pull all orders in the same system as any other ability is really good.
Appart from that, having less Order's doens't mean a lot, and the whole system seems to promove a mix of races, and that's exactly what Cities of Sigmar are, still think that they need a 2d wave and mix Aelves, Duardin and Humans in the same unit and remove any racial keyword, but that's just me. I'm not sure about Bulwark Zone Battle-Formation. I'm not a fan of one-time abilities that you don't have any control to trigger, it diminishes the feeling that you are playing a subfaction and it forces to play as many Fortified Position units. The spells is awesome and really powerful.
About warscrolls, I like most of them. There are a few things that I had some hopes to be integrated in a diferent way, like the poison from the Infernadine that was the perfect target for an USR, but pretty happy about other stuff like the Fusil-Major (+1 hit rolls seems awesome, and you don't even need to hurt the target) and the average 5mw before the Fight Phase of 10 Cavaliers (maybe they lost damage, but mw will always be good no matter what). Steelhelmets feel good too.
Still need to see the fussiliers, cannon and the Chamonite mage to understand the whole faction, but they look good to great.
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1 hour ago, Nezzhil said:
We can move to a Duardins edition
That sounds really good. You should work for GW!
Btw, what do you expect for KOs 4.0? I'm not sure that a shooting army with reduced/less rend/shorter range is healthy for the game. I'm curious to see how they manage a 5-profile warscrolls and artillery in 4.0.
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Today is the day!! Time for our faction focus!!
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1 hour ago, Nezzhil said:
They are mixing "small" Codexes with bigger ones to provide space for new factions. 40k have the Custodes, Aeldari and, if the rumour is true, the new Imperial force as mixed Codexes.
Yeah, it sucks for Aledary-Ynnari. Custodes and Imperail stuff are part of the same Institution and they are clearly from the same Civilization (Imperium of the Man).
But 40k is a bit diferent from AoS, so we can't make a 1:1 comparison because thereare factions that are clearly part of a civilization (Tyranids and Genestealers) but they are split in 2 books.
10 minutes ago, Xil said:They only differ in 1 and half a point:
1. Their leaders are different persons. One being Morathi and the other Malerion
0.5. Religion: Malerion elves won't follow the Scáthborns fanatical faith in Morathi. BUT so does a big portion of the DoK, which now are lead by Krethusa. Krethusa follows the Crone Godess, which as an old god, should also be a god of the Malerion elves.
I don't have enough knowledge to see how diferent Malerioneths are going to be from DoK. Time will tell.
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7 hours ago, Xil said:
DoK could use a wider range. It could be done like the different builds within LRL or BigWaagh.
Imho, battletomes shoudn't be armies, they should be civilizations.
If two armies doesn't have the same religion, traditions, art & culture, social classes,technology, etc... (no need to share all of them), then, I don't know why they must be mixed in one book with just 4 pages that let them play together.
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2 minutes ago, novakai said:
I mean Fyreslayers did get the Grimhold exile and Sylvaneth get Bethanos so it more then just lore
You have two options here:
- The lore from the campaign book was written to sell this models
- The models were made because the campaign book
Believe what you want
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9 minutes ago, novakai said:
If you got a model release during Broken realm you actually got something more during 3.0 and dwarfs got zippo during Broken realms. Lore is actually worthless when dictating releases
I know, that's why I'm saying to not expect anything (model wise) based on lore or campaigns. Dwarf players already learned the hard way.
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Dwarf had a good amount of story arcs in Broken Realms, with Grungni's return and reforging Grombrindal, Chronicles of the Wanderer/White dwarf. Sadly, no new miniatures for any of the dwarf races appart from the usual "1 hero" and a Warcry warband.
Expect the same (or less) for Sylvaneth, Cities of Sigmar, etc... and you will not be disappointed.
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30 minutes ago, Acrozatarim said:
I certainly suspect that distance has given 2nd ed a somewhat rosy tint in many peoples' eyes. It's easy to forget all the things we were desperately happy to see the back of at the time, when that edition shuffled off into retirement.
Yes, but it's really easy to understand why. It was an improvement from 1st edition with a but of everything: look out sir, a LOT of artifacts to choose from, endless spells, mercenaries, etc...
Yes, maybe 3rd edition external/internal balance is/was miles away from that 70% of Slaanesh, but most of the new things were/are tied to battletomes and crunchy rules (seasonal rules, incarnate, monstruous rampage, Heroc Actions, Regiments of Renown, etc...).
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47 minutes ago, MotherGoose said:
Yea I personally think olynder looks like she could be very important in a game, but is also very 'meh'. 2x caster is great but expected obviously and we are yet to ser the spells, but being almost identical in melee profile to skarsnik just seems silly IMO. She's boring, which is a shame.
Reikenor on the other hand got a few nice sneaky buffs that I'm all.here for.
I agree, but that's because combat characters are so much fun to play with. I remember the first iteration of Ogor Mawtribes (or whatever they were called) that you could stack some buffs (great gouge, names, artifact and trait) for a damage 6 weapon with a quality profile (I think it was 3+/3+) in a game that damage 3 was crazy. Olynder is not that flashy, but a table-wide healing will be always impactful and I think she will be a lot harder to remove than Reiknelor.
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22 minutes ago, Tonhel said:
But this is an endless debate.
And a boring one
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How do you know that Olynder is not that good?
Maybe Spirit Hosts are specialized bodyguards and Yndrasta can't kill Olynder, maybe there is some anti-character unit for counter-charge and kill Yndrasta in 1hKO, maybe there is a "can't deepstrike near 12"" aura unit, maybe you can return somehow Olynder...
I mean, we need to see most of the warscrolls, their points and the overall gameplay of each army.
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11 minutes ago, Tonhel said:
We have now seen 4 faction focus articles and I have yet to see a unit without rend.
Most of the unit previewed are named characters, big monsters/elites or glass cannons. I mean, that's what they are supposed to be, but even that, -1 rend can be negated really quickly, so...
To be honest, I think that the damage will be less than 3.0, unless the right unit hit the right target, in that case, it should be more. And that's exactly what the game needs.
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2 minutes ago, Luperci said:
I'm not aware of their 3rd ed rules but wouldn't their new ethereal passive make them super hard to remove with a 3+ save? I was under the impression that NH lean more towards fast and killy than super tanky
Me too. I'm not a NH expert, but a 4+ unrendable save, followed by 6+ ward that can become 5+ when needed, seems nice.
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but you won't like it.
AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion
in Order
Posted · Edited by Beliman
I've talked with other KO players, and it seems that we are not that diferent from before. I mean, we probably can play with 3rd edition exactly as we would play in 4th (just replace Fly High and move units and disembark like we already do with the Grundstock Expedition Force), everything else will be close to be the same with a subtle changes here and there.
Yes, we lost a lot, but our gameplay will be close to the same. We are going to interact with terrain and body-block units, and we will need to plan ahead because we are still soft.
But our gameplay will be based on Transport Skyfarer, it's a Reaction that triggers after a MOVE that is not a CHARGE is made by our skyvessel. That means:
I still need to do some maths, but there are a lot of movement shenanigans there. I can't wait to play and see what can we do.