the crimson crown

[Mikeboll]

How do you play the crimson Crown? it says you can make one additional attack for each hit roll of 6 you make. So if 30 letters attack they get +1 to hit. Does hit rolls of 6 get them an extra attack, or is it only hit rolls of 5 because the +1 to hit or do you play it hit rolls of 5 and 6? It does not say hit rolls of 6 or more. Think this one is quit unclear. I play it hit rolls of 6 regardless of modifiers as I think it makes most sense.

[Killax]

It's not extremely clear. RAW state:
 

Quote

When making attacks with the bearer and any KHORNE DAEMON models from your army that are within 8" of them in the combat phase, you can make one additional attack with that model for each hit roll of 6 you make.

As a result I do believe the implication of it is that you need to roll 6's and indeed not a 6 or more.

[Mikeboll]

I think so to but how do you apply hitmodifiers to that?

[Killax]

18 minutes ago, Mikeboll said:

I think so to but how do you apply hitmodifiers to that?

You still do but they only help for succession of rolls and not always additional triggers. Note that it differs per Ability. The Khorne Lord on Juggernaut and other Daemonic Weapons do look for a roll of 6 or more, meaning they can trigger on a 5/6 the moment you have an +1 modifier to that roll.

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In essence I believe AoS' design means this in practical terms:
Roll = 6 = D6 roll is looking for six eyes; X(X=6)
Roll = 6 or more = D6 roll looking for an eventual six or more (note, you can roll 5 and add 1 to go for 6); Z=X+Y
 

[Jharen]

Before or after modifier isn't going to increase your chance of triggering the ability so ultimately it isn't too important as to which way you do it.  You have a 1 in 6 chance of it triggering. What is important is that you discuss it with your opponent, group, TO, or whoever in advance make sure these sort of situations are clear BEFORE you roll those dice.  In my group when using abilities that only trigger on a specific value (such as The Crimson Crown) instead of a range of values (such as Decapitating Blow), we have decided it easier to go by what the number on the die actually is so as to alleviate any confusion in events where these abilities overlap.

[KnightFire]

Technically the trigger happens after modifiers, so if you have +1 to hit, you roll a 5, it gets +1 and it gives an extra attack. If you roll any other number its not a 6 (after modifiers) and so doesn't generate the extra attack. 

I think there is an FAQ that covers the ordering of things.

 

Note that if you did it on the natural roll, it would never be possible to heal wounds with a castellant, as you cant roll a 7+ on a d6 before modifiers  

[tea_wild_owl]

There is a difference between "each roll of 6" and "each roll of 6 or more". the pure number indicates the exact number without modifiers, the "+" indicates the roll after modifiers. fec crypt flayers do mortal wounds on a hit roll of 6, without any modifiers: no increased chance with +to hit but mortals on 6 with - to hit, in contrary other death units (spirit hosts etc) do mortal wounds on 6+, so worse against -to hit. it is the same mechanic as "reroll safe rolls of 1"; you do not reroll a 2 when the attack has rend-1

[KnightFire]

1 minute ago, tea_wild_owl said:

There is a difference between "each roll of 6" and "each roll of 6 or more". the pure number indicates the exact number without modifiers, the "+" indicates the roll after modifiers. fec crypt flayers to mortal wounds on a hit roll of 6, without any modifiers: no increased chance with +to hit but mortals on 6 with - to hit, in contrary other death units (spirit hosts etc) do mortal wounds on 6+, so worse against -to hit. it is the same mechanic as "reroll safe rolls of 1"; you do not reroll a 2 when the attack has send-1

No no no, thats not how the rules say to play it at all. "+" doesnt mean "natural roll" it means "or more"

Each roll of 6 means each 6 after modifiers

Each roll of 6+ means each roll of 6 or more after modifiers.

Effects always take place after modifiers unless the rules explicitly say they don't.

 

[tea_wild_owl]

7 minutes ago, KnightFire said:

No no no, thats not how the rules say to play it at all. "+" doesnt mean "natural roll" it means "or more"

Each roll of 6 means each 6 after modifiers

Each roll of 6+ means each roll of 6 or more after modifiers.

Effects always take place after modifiers unless the rules explicitly say they don't.

 

I know that the + means after modifiers. however, if there is a specific number mentioned, it means the unmodified roll (at least that's how it was described to me by gw)

when you have the ability to reroll safe rolls of 1, you do only reroll the ones and no other values due to rend, don't you?

[KnightFire]

39 minutes ago, tea_wild_owl said:

I know that the + means after modifiers. however, if there is a specific number mentioned, it means the unmodified roll (at least that's how it was described to me by gw)

when you have the ability to reroll safe rolls of 1, you do only reroll the ones and no other values due to rend, don't you?

Then GW told you incorrectly.

Rerolls are different, as rerolls always happen before modifiers (as per the FAQ rules). 

 

The sequence is:

Rolls

Rerolls

Modifiers

Effects

[Jharen]

1 hour ago, KnightFire said:

The sequence is:

Rolls

Rerolls

Modifiers

Effects

This is the correct sequence of events here.

When dealing with rolls which gain no benefit from modifiers (such as the Crimson Crown) then this sequence is not going to have much importance concerning the outcome though, so it's not critical that you apply in that order.  If your local group/opponent/TO has ruled that the roll is based off the natural roll or modified roll, either way is going to have the same % chance of success/failure.  It is only important that you work out all such non-modifiable ability rolls in the same way each time, which you should clarify with your opponent/TO/group beforehand.