Gauche Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Hello, I'm looking to get some feedback now that I have quite a few games under my belt regarding two list pairs I have available to me. Both are incredibly competitive, that is their purpose. I'm looking for feedback on taking these in a competitive setting, factoring in other power lists in the meta, Scenarios, and Terrain. List #1 Savage Orruk Big Boss Huskard on Thundertusk w/ Blood Raven Huskard on Thundertusk w/ Blood Raven & Battle Brew Huskard on Thundertusk w/ Blood Raven & Battle Brew 10 Savage Orruks 40 Savage Orruk Arrowboys 20 Moonclan Grots w/ Spears & Shields 20 Moonclan Grots w/ Spears & Shields 1 Fanatic 1 Fanatic 1 Kunnin' Rukk List #2 Savage Orruk Big Boss Frostlord on Stonehorn w/ Battle Brew Huskard on Thundertusk w/ Blood Raven Huskard on Thundertusk w/ Blood Raven & Battle Brew 10 Savage Orruks 10 Savage Orruks 10 Savage Orruks 40 Savage Orruk Arrowboys 1x Kunnin' Rukk Compare and Contrast So both lists are centered around the Kunnin' Rukk, forming the same core of the army. This allows me to have dominance in the ranged game outside of very few matchups: namely Kurnoth Hunter Spam, double Kunnin' Rukk, and some Warmachine heavy builds (Chaos Dwarves). The other actual Units act as screens for the Kunnin' Rukk, to various degrees of success, and the Big Boss stays in the back, preferably behind Terrain. The Kunnin' Rukk is what it is and probably doesn't require that much examination compared to the shell around it. List #1 is a very heavy gunline, everything either shoots or stands in the way of Charges for the things that shoot. Moonclan Grots are among the best screens in the game because of Fanatics/Netters and their good Armor Save/Bravery against shooting but they are pure screens and very bad offensively. My remaining offense comes from the Huskards pumping out extremely reliable, long range Mortal Wounds. Since they can heal one another reliably they rarely go down past d6 Mortal Wounds over the course of the game and their Re-roll 1's to Wound "Prayer" plus Battle Brew makes for reasonably competent melee models. I always take Blood Ravens for sniping Warmachine Crews, finishing models off, and they're amazing against Pink Horrors due to the interaction with Splitting. List #2 is very similar but drops some shooting and screen reliability for probably the best Melee Hero in the game, point for point. I do think of the Frostlord as another screen since he wants to get into combat and tie 2+ Units up, if something retreats from him then I still have my shooting and my opponent sacrifices their shooting or melee potential. A Frostlord will put out more damage than a Huskard over the course of the game, albeit at more risk, but his damage is not as point and click. Dropping a Huskard also weakens my ability to heal the Monsters but does give me more reliable targets since the Frostlord will almost always be wounded and if he isn't he really likes the re-roll 1's to Wound "Prayer". Finally my screen is weaker but not by as much as it first appears. Orruks vs. Night Goblins The best part about Moonclan Grots is the Fanatic, allowing you to block two Charges with a single Unit. However I've been noticing lately that people are catching on to the work-arounds, namely getting as close as possible to the Grots, then Piling In on the Fanatic and also getting into the Grots. This isn't always an issue but with high Movement Units and Deep Strike/Deployment Abilities becoming more in flavor to counter shooting I have noticed less mileage out of the Fanatics. They're still vastly superior against shooting but typically my opponent's just shoot the Arrowboys or have so few guns that it really doesn't matter. Netters are still extremely powerful and tend to hold Units up for a long time but that really depends on the matchup. Orruks, while worse defensively are a lot more offensively capable and likely to stick around in Combat. Grots have poor Bravery, 4 and +1 for 10 Models in most cases. Orruks are 5 and +2 with their Banner while also taking less overall model loss for Battleshock with 2 Wounds per model. They equal the Grots Armor Save in Melee and hit a lot better, but are also easier to be hit due to lack of Netters. Orruks can turn into a decent offensive Unit because of Rampaging Destroyer and their Drummer granting +2 on Charges, against a lot of mixed armies I've had them get into Warmachines and other shooting Units where they can actually do some damage. Grots project force a bit shorter and aren't as competent in a fight, meaning that tying up the shooting Units accomplishes little to nothing. There's also the option of giving on Orruk Unit an extra "action" with the Kunnin' Rukk, although this rarely comes up outside of a Scenario play. Finally Orruks have a smaller footprint which matters against some Units but that also makes it easier to unpack my army on Turn 1 and avoid problematic Terrain. Scenarios Both lists are quite good at Scenarios, they take ground well and because of my shooting it's very risky to leave the typical 10 man Unit of worthless models holding an Objective. List #2 is likely a bit better at Three Places of Power / Gift from the Heavens because of the Frostlord but a bit worse at Escalation / Borderwar / Take and Hold / Blood and Glory because of the smaller model count. Escalation is the worst Scenario for both lists against other shooting armies but gets a bit worse with the Frostlord because of the extra delay in him getting to Combat. Blood and Glory would be the next worse because my army doesn't like to spread out, however the Frostlord helps with that due to his speed. All in all it's about the game but there are some trade-offs. Terrain Terrain is a much bigger obstacle for List #2 as it can prevent the Frostlord from being able to get ideal Charges, either due to physically blocking him or because of Deadly. Both lists love to see Damned and don't want to see Mystical despite the buff being amazing on Arrowboys. Being able to get my screens out of the way is easier with the Orruks compared to the Grots since they have a smaller footprint. Orruks also get a lot more out of Mystical Terrain since I usually have my screen units eat those rolls when I'm forced to take them. Counters Both lists have few actual counters as they're using premier models that can all stand alone and put out an incredible amount of damage. Most people reach for anti-Shooting tech these days but most of it doesn't impact my army since not everything needs to roll to Hit and it's very easy to dodge a lot of the Spells/Prayers that grant negatives to Hit. Stormcast Players in particular love that stuff and having played against it many times, it's not as valid as it looks on paper. Actual counters are first and foremost bigger gunlines, as I mentioned above, and that's where I think the Frostlord shines. He can get across the table Turn 1 (threat of 12+2d6+2d6" and 5/6 Scenarios have both Players up 12") and will tear through even Kurnoth Hunters which are the toughest of the high powered shooting units. This synergizes with my shooting elements who can remove screens for him so as not to waste those premium attacks. Warmachine heavy armies, notable Chaos Dwarves, are still a problem regardless of build. Armies with Deep Strike can be an issue depending on the build and are a bit better against List #2 because I don't have as much of a footprint to keep them out. Extremely fast armies, while few and far between, do better against List #1 although overall I'm not concerned about fast melee forces within the current meta. List #1 is hard countered by appropriately built Kurnoth Hunter Spam and double Kunnin' Rukk, List #2 by double Kunnin' Rukk and Rend Immunity/High Save builds. I don't think anything in the game beats a correctly built double Kunnin' Rukk except itself so my plan is to not worry about that. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ That is the end of my long rambling and way too much thought about my army lists, any C+C is welcome and I'm also happy to clarify any of my positions or discuss them. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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