CoffeeGrunt Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Hey everyone, I've got two tournaments coming up locally, at 1500pts, and I'm looking for a little bit of advice on what list people feel would be best to run. Here's my current list below: Wight King on Nightmare Steed Cairn Wraith Terrorgheist 40 Skeletons with Spears 40 Skeletons with Swords 5 Black Knights 6 Spirit Hosts Basically, the strategy for that one is to hold everything back for the first turn due to how slow it is. Once I see where my opponent's headed, the Spirit Hosts go out to hunt an elite unit, while the Mounted Wight King and Terrorgheist hide behind the skeleton phalanxes. Once the enemy connects, the Wight King buffs the skellies and the Terrorgheist pounces a flank and goes to work. The Black Knights normally try to tie down a unit in the meantime, or hit the flank to help grind the enemy forces down. So far it's worked well in normal play, but the lack of mobility worries me. I recently got a Zombie Dragon with a Lord on it, and I realised that I could trade the Terrorgheist and Black Knights for it. Now this means that all my mobility is in one unit, effectively, but that one unit is now a perfect storm of close combat, buffing, and durability. I'm thinking Tomb Blade + Red Fury for offensive, or maybe Ruler of the Night to enhance the buff ability. What's your thoughts? I've never played the VLoZD before. Is it as good as it looks on paper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Ares Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Solid looking list! Personally I love the VLoZD and run with ring of immortality and ruler of the night. Pick your fights properly and he's immensely brutal Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Grimwood Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 I had my rear end handed to me by a Death army with a VLoZD. I found him very durable and spent far to long trying to kill because he was such an impressive model when I should have been doing other things. I don't think he killed as much as he cost but was worth it because of the amount of distraction he caused. The army I faced was also Spirt host heavy and they performed excellently, really tough (especially with the Death abilities and traits) and did reliable damage with their ability to cause mortal wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted October 26, 2016 Author Share Posted October 26, 2016 Yeah, I tend to rely on my Hosts reaping a good toll on the enemy as an outrider formation. I tend to send them at tough targets with a good save and Rend, for Mortal Wounds Care Not, and Ethereal is fun. They normally get an escort to give them Deathless Minion saves as well. Another thought: is there any reason not to make, say, the Cairn Wraith my General? Obviously I'd forgo Red Fury on my VLoZD, but I'd get Inspiring Presence on a model with no Command Abilities, which means I can basically throw that down on models without losing anything. (If my opponents really try, they can make Battleshock a horror show.) I could also make it a Wizard so it could cast Mystic Shield on stuff, mainly the Spirit Hosts, and maybe another CC buff like the Tomb Blade or something. I dunno if this would be considered unsporting or a bit cheeky, just a thought that came up. He's hardly immortal, but as far as I'm aware there's no Slay The Warlord or anything in this game that makes losing your General a real kick in the teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 I would replace 20 Skellies with swords with 10 Grave Guard and split the remaining 20 into two units of 10. There is not much point in having large Skeleton units with swords, since they don't all get to attack. You now have a Wight King, 3 units of Skeletons, a unit of Grave Guard and a unit of Black Knights - you qualify for the Legion of Death formation. Drop the Cairn Wraith and include the formation to solve all of your movement problems! You can then replace the Terrorgheist with the Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon if you drop 3 Spirit Hosts. The list would be: Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon, general, Ruler of the Night, Cursed Book OR Tomb Blade Wight King on Nightmare Steed, Ring of Immortality 40 Skeletons, spears 10 Skeletons, swords 10 Skeletons, swords 10 Grave Guard, great wight blade 5 Black Knights 3 Spirit Hosts Formation: Legion of Death You definitely do lose out by making the Cairn Wraith your general - since only your general may use command abilities, you lose the excellent command ability of your VLoZD. The Wight King also has a great command ability, but since he is more frail I would suggest making the VLoZD your general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted October 26, 2016 Author Share Posted October 26, 2016 Hmm, personally I don't really rate the Legion of Death, the movement bonus is nice as is the extra model a turn, so it's an interesting thought. I have no Grave Guard though, so I couldn't run that list anyway. I run Skeletons in large blocks mainly to get a high number of attacks per-model, and also to absorb losses. Plenty of my opponents could eradicate a 10 man squad no problem, and they'll have a limp-wristed counterattack. Didn't realise that only Generals could use Command Abilities, though. It wouldn't affect my previous games as only my Wight King had one anyway, and he was always my General. The VLoZD has a great trait, so I'd probably stick with him as-planned then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undead4Life Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Alternatively, drop 30 skeletons and the Black Knights and throw a naked Zombie Dragon in the list... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 1 hour ago, CoffeeGrunt said: Hmm, personally I don't really rate the Legion of Death, the movement bonus is nice as is the extra model a turn, so it's an interesting thought. I have no Grave Guard though, so I couldn't run that list anyway. I run Skeletons in large blocks mainly to get a high number of attacks per-model, and also to absorb losses. Plenty of my opponents could eradicate a 10 man squad no problem, and they'll have a limp-wristed counterattack. Didn't realise that only Generals could use Command Abilities, though. It wouldn't affect my previous games as only my Wight King had one anyway, and he was always my General. The VLoZD has a great trait, so I'd probably stick with him as-planned then. Oh, but the purpose of 10-man units is not to hit back hard when they counter attack, it's to let your large and killy units hit back at full strength. What you do is that you place a 10-man unit and inch or two in front of your 40-man unit with spears. If an enemy charges, it may very well kill your 10-man unit, and that is totally fine. Then you get to pile in and attack with your 40-man unit and wreck him. If you instead let him charge your 40-man unit directly, you may lose 10 models or more, which reduces your combat power significantly. Try it out, it's a really strong tactic =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted October 27, 2016 Author Share Posted October 27, 2016 I had never actually thought of that, cheeky! Hmm, I might see if that would work as a strategy. 15 hours ago, Undead4Life said: Alternatively, drop 30 skeletons and the Black Knights and throw a naked Zombie Dragon in the list... Hmm, I feel that might leave me a bit light on boots-on-the-ground, though. Plus it leaves me 40pts under, and I go into a frothing, twitching mess if I'm not making the most of every point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexxk Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Why not field a necromancer? I feel that his dance macabe spell is the strongest spell Death GA has to offer (not regarding tomb kings). Double Pile in and attack from 40 Skeles is brutal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted October 27, 2016 Author Share Posted October 27, 2016 Hmm, perhaps instead of the Wight King, given that I can't use Lord of Bones if he's not my General anyway. That said, the Necromancer is hilariously fragile if he gets caught out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 Well I play this list against Sylvaneth last night: Vamp Lord on Zombie Dragon Cairn Wraith Mounted Wight King 40 Skellies, Spears 40 Skellies, Swords 6 Spirit Hosts My opponent had: Spirit of Durthu Drycha 10 Dryads 10 More 3 Hitty Trees with Scythes 3 Hitty Trees with Swords 3 Kurnoth Hunters I got utterly and ruthlessly hammered. I had deployed with the Swords in an arc around the phalanx of spears, with Wight King and VLoZD behind. The Cairn Wraith supported the Spirit Hosts on one flank. He held his Dryads in reserve, and had Durthu central flanked by the Hitty Trees, while the Shooty Trees hung out on one flank, and Drycha on the other. Basically he sent Drycha speeding forward via the Forest Express into the Spirit Hosts. By turn two she was dead, as were two of them and the Cairn Wraith. I had to send the VLoZD to buff them and help while the Skeletons advanced cautiously. It's worth noting at this point he was running a formation that gave him a free move, so he smashed my lines easier than I thought he could. The Spirit of Durthu immediately wiped out about 20 Skellies on its own, which put the jitters on me. Also he incurred a -1 to Hit and had a 2+ from Oaken Armour. The Phalanx of spears and the swords both bounce off and do nothing, while the Hitty Trees with Swords chop another swathe of Skeletons apart. I at least removed casualties so that the Hitty Trees with Scythes Battleshock wipes the squad. From there I was trying to reposition my VLoZD and Spirit Hosts to counter, but was also wary of Durthu. Didn't help that when I charged the Hitty Trees with Scythes that I, despite re-rolls, only did two Wounds due to some apocalyptically-woeful rolling. From there Durthu basically shattered the rest of the Skeletons, the Wight King died to the Scythe Trees, and two turns later Durthu finished off my VLoZD. Thing is that I have literally no idea how I could counter that list. It's tough, it's ruthless and Durthu is even cheaper than my VLoZD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 There are a couple of things worth noting here. First off, his list does seem stronger than yours in general. Looking at his list, every single unit (except for maybe the dryads) looks scary, but that is not the case with your list. A unit of 40 Skellies with swords is simply not worthwhile, it really has to be divided into smaller units in order to be effective. Also, Cairn Wraiths are mediocre at best. They're cool though, so if you like it, keep it, but if you want a really strong list then it should not contain Cairn Wraiths. If you want help with list building, it would be good to know what models you have in your collection, since earlier advice was rejected due to you not owning the suggested models. As for the game itself, you made some crucial mistakes on turn 1 that really lost you the game pretty much immediately. Those were: 1) Deployment - one of the strongest combos in your list is the Spirit Hosts with the VLoZD command ability. If you deploy them so far away from each other that you can't use that combo, then what's the point? 2) You over committed completely to Drycha. She costs 280 points, and you sent 740 points to deal with her. This left his remaining 1220 points to deal with your remaining 760 points - a massacre! 3) You advanced your Skeletons. If you put so much effort into dealing with Drycha, the rest of your army will be completely vulnerable. In that case, you have to move it backwards, as far away from the enemy's forces as possible, not forwards so that he can charge you. It seems you also underestimated his speed, which can happen easily when you don't know the army of your opponent. Either way, you need to play very carefully if you put so much resources into one of your flanks. It seems that you did smash the flank that you committed to, but when you do that you must take care not to get smashed on the other flank. Hope that helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 Yeah, it was my first time against Sylvaneth, so I was wholly-unprepared and made a lot of errors. My collection of models so far is: Necromancer Wight King Mounted Wight King Cairn Wraith Banshee VLoZD 60 Zombies 40 Skeletons, Spears 40 Skeletons, Swords 10 Dire Wolves 10 Black Knights 6 Spirit Hosts Terrorgheist Mortis Engine 20 Mantic Skeletons, (maybe as Grave Guard.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted October 29, 2016 Author Share Posted October 29, 2016 Tried a list that was: VLoZD Necromancer 10 Skeletons, swords 10 Skeletons, swords 10 Grave Guard, GWB Terrorgheist 6 Spirit Hosts 5 Dire Wolves Got massacred in both games I tried it in, against Bloodbound and Flesh Eaters. The strategy was basically having the two Skeleton units form a line, behind which the VLoZD, Terrorgheist and Grave Guard wait. The Dire Wolves operate as outriders on one flank to hit stragglers holding objectives, or cap objectives. The Spirit Hosts support on another flank, though I'm thinking 2x3 units might be a better way to run them. In game, the Skeletons would usually receive the charge and fold, as planned, but I'm finding that my counter-attack is completely lacking in any potency. Woeful rolling wasn't helping - had entire turns where the re-rolling VLoZD wasn't landing a single, solid Wound - and a lot of my army folds pretty quickly. The Grave Guard typically died in one combat phase, the Terrorgheist didn't really take long to kill once concentrated-on either. I'm really struggling to get a decent list together with this force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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