hearthguard ward save against bodyguarded wounds work or not

[Doko]

as tittle says,hearthguard berzerkers can get a wound of a runefather/son that have in their retinue,so they are bodyguards. 

at this point we are ok.

but now the problem,we have a faq that says that nobody can use ward save against wounds done by the bodyguard rule to the bodyguard, but hearthguard berzerkers have in his scroll a rule that let them use ward save against bodyguarded wounds.

so hearthguard can use ward saves or not?

i asked to many persons and everyone says that no,because the faq is more recent than the hearthguard scroll and state that isnt posible,but some person in the fyreslayer group think that is posible and so i would like know if it is posible or not.

myself being fyreslayer player dont use the ward,so if it is posible i would like to know  it and why it is posible to show it to my club

 

 

[Dogmantra]

The FAQ is not relevant to the Auric Runefather's ability.

The FAQ specifically refers to rolls to negate a wound/mortal wound. Negate is used as a specific game term, if the word doesn't appear in the ability, then it is not a roll to negate a wound. The Auric Runefather's ability does not negate wounds or mortal wounds, it assigns them to a different unit. The rule explicitly says that the retinue can make a ward roll for damage assigned in this way.

[Dogmantra]

Point to the callout box under 1.6.3 Contradictory Effects which says "If the effect of an ability contradicts a core rule, then the effect takes precedence." The runefather's ability specifically says that the hearthguard can then make a ward roll. Even if this contradicted the FAQ (which in my opinion it does not), it would still take precedence because it is the effect of an ability and the FAQ is a core rule.

If that doesn't work, you could try pointing them to the fact that a ward is defined as any ability that "allow[s] you to roll a dice to negate a wound or mortal wound." (14.3 Wards) and the ability on the Runefather says that it is used instead of a ward roll. If it negated the wound, it would by definition be a ward and would not need to specify that it takes place instead of a ward. If that doesn't work, try pointing to the next question in the FAQ Quote Some abilities allow you to roll a dice to attempt to negate a wound or mortal wound, but that roll may have a different effect depending on the score of the dice (as per, for example, the ‘Soul-forged Guardians’ ability on the Praetors warscroll). We're not interested in the answer to the question here, but instead the example ability. Here it gives Soul-forged Guardians as an example of an ability that has a roll to negate the wound but can have a different effect based on the value of the roll. In the case of that ability, the different effect is the exact same type of bodyguard effect. The way this question is worded makes it clear that the rules writers consider negating a wound to be a different effect from moving it to another unit. If that still doesn't work then I suggest you try bonking them on the head with a rolled up copy of white dwarf.

[Doko]

1 hour ago, Dogmantra said:

The FAQ is not relevant to the Auric Runefather's ability.

The FAQ specifically refers to rolls to negate a wound/mortal wound. Negate is used as a specific game term, if the word doesn't appear in the ability, then it is not a roll to negate a wound. The Auric Runefather's ability does not negate wounds or mortal wounds, it assigns them to a different unit. The rule explicitly says that the retinue can make a ward roll for damage assigned in this way.

thanks that make sense.

i could explain that hgb have ward of bodyguarded wounds due to his retinue rule and the rule 1,6.

at this points everyone agree.

now the problem is the faq that says that negated wounds cant be saved by nothing even wards and these negated wounds done to bodyguards also cant be saved.

i explained that the retinue rule says that the wound is RELOCATED and not NEGATED but they tell me that is only semantic and the fact is that the wound is negated by the ruefather and so hgb cant use ward.

any advise in how try explain them this better?we arent very competitive in my club  and we do only 1 or 2 tournaments each year of only 12 players,so i preffer dont get angry about this rule and let them think they are rigth if they refuse this point