Issues with multi-model WIZARD units re: where to cast from, effect bubbles, etc

[yukishiro1]

I could have sworn there used to be a FAQ on this, but maybe I'm imagining it or maybe I'm getting it confused with the one in 40k? I couldn't find anything current, though I may have missed it.

Although most WIZARDs are single models, there are some units where the whole unit counts as a WIZARD (at lest when certain conditions are met, usually if there are more than X of them). Sisters of the Thorn are an example. 

How does one measure effects to and from these models when using spells? 19.2 merely says that "the range of a spell is always measured from the caster," but it doesn't define "the caster." When you have a multi-model WIZARD cast a spell, is the entire unit the caster, or do you nominate a single model within the unit to be the caster? This can matter quite a bit for effects that require something to be wholly within X" of the caster. Similarly, for effects that create an aura in an X" bubble from "the caster," do you get the bubble from the entire unit, or only from a single model you nominate as the caster?

My inclination is to say that unless I've missed a FAQ it's the entire unit in both cases, and that ends up being a disadvantage in certain circumstances (e.g. when casting a spell that requires wholly within) but an advantage in others (i.e. getting a big bubble from auras), and you just live with those little quirks. Is there some FAQ I've missed somewhere, or do people have other thoughts on how to handle this?

 

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by yukishiro1

[Dogmantra]

19.4 clears this up. You pick a single model and measure range and visibility from that model.

       
    
"19.4 Units of Wizards
WIZARDS are usually units consisting of a single model. If a unit with the WIZARD keyword has more than 1 model, it counts as a single WIZARD for rules purposes and you must pick 1 model in the unit with which to cast or unbind a spell before you attempt to cast or unbind it. Determine the range and visibility for the attempt using that model."
   

[yukishiro1]

Wow, how did I miss that? Thanks. Do you think that also implies that any aura that comes from "the caster" also goes not from the entire unit but only from the specific model, so you need to keep track of which model cast the spell to know how large the aura is? Or would the aura project from the entire unit? I.e. is "the caster" that particular model or the unit as a whole, even if it's measured from that particular model? If it's the specific model, that would also imply that the effect ends if that particular model dies even if the rest of the unit survives, I guess? 

I want to say it's the whole unit just because from a bookkeeping perspective anything else seems a bit excessive, but that gives me as the player using that unit a bit of an advantage and I don't want to take it if I'm not entitled to it.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by yukishiro1

[Dogmantra]

It could do with clarification for sure. I think, since it tells you to determine range from the chosen model that does apply at all times, and so yes, the single chosen model is the source of auras, since you measure whether a unit is in range of the effect.

It's weird because I can't tell what the intent is, multi-model auras are already a thing, it doesn't seem too powerful, and it would only affect the range of auras anyway since for instant effects you'll obviously just pick whichever model is in range.

I don't like that as an rule at all, and honestly for the sake of bookkeeping I would as a TO be happy to rule that the whole unit is the source of the aura, but I think if you go by a full rules-as-written approach (which I feel I must here because I have zero idea what GW intends!) then it is the single model chosen that is the source.

[yukishiro1]

Well, it's mostly auras, but it'd also effect things like arcane bolt. I.e. you could cast arcane bolt from one model then discharge it by measuring based on a different model in the unit. I guess potentially you could also argue that things like flaming weapon would hit the whole unit as well if you were interpreting the "caster" to be the entire unit, which could maybe be situationally powerful on the right unit. 

I think I agree that based on that language everything effects only that particular model, has to be measured from that model for all purposes, and effects would go away if that particular model dies, but that seems like a terribly awkward and cumbersome rule to play with in practice. 

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by yukishiro1

[WAAAGHdogg15]

Just as an addition to this, I think the rules will start heading towards a particular model in the unit being granted the WIZARD keyword as it is for Lumineth Wardens and Sentinels - the unit champion specifically is a wizard, so all spell related measuring happens to and from that model.