Ward saves in death army - how do they interact?

[Grugg]

Hello all,

 

I recently played a 2 games against a Soulblight list including nagash and there were a few rules interactions that we had difficulty resolving.

1. When damage or mortal wounds get through to a character they roll a ward save for each damage. E.g a unit has 2 attacks go through to it each doing 3 damage- they roll 6 ward saves, one for each wound that would be applied to the unit. Is this correct?

2. Armour of templehoff states 'the first wound or mortal wound allocated to this model in each phase is negated'. Is a wound allocated before or after the ward save? For example Manfred has 3 mortal wounds allocated to him, armour of templehoff blocks 1 so he rolls 2 ward saves. Or is it he rolls all his ward saves, and the first unsaved wound gets blocked by the armour?

I feel it should be the first explanation otherwise it's in essence 2 saves against the same wound and I thought you could only do 1 ward save.

3. Nagash has access to morikan

'Roll a dice each time you allocate a mortal wound to this model. On a 1-3, nothing happens. On a 4-5, that mortal wound is negated. On a 6, that mortal wound is negated and the attacking unit suffers 1 mortal wound'

But also access to deathless minion 

'Roll a dice each time you allocate a wound or mortal wound to a friendly SOULBLIGHT GRAVELORDS unit wholly within 12" of a friendly SOULBLIGHT GRAVELORDS HERO or gravesite. On a 6+, that wound or mortal wound is negated.'

Am I correct in thinking you must choose which of these to apply? You cannot use morikan and then deathless for any unsaved wounds?

Thanks

 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, Grugg said:

Hello all,

 

I recently played a 2 games against a Soulblight list including nagash and there were a few rules interactions that we had difficulty resolving.

1. When damage or mortal wounds get through to a character they roll a ward save for each damage. E.g a unit has 2 attacks go through to it each doing 3 damage- they roll 6 ward saves, one for each wound that would be applied to the unit. Is this correct.

This is correct.

1 hour ago, Grugg said:

2. Armour of templehoff states 'the first wound or mortal wound allocated to this model in each phase is negated'. Is a wound allocated before or after the ward save? For example Manfred has 3 mortal wounds allocated to him, armour of templehoff blocks 1 so he rolls 2 ward saves. Or is it he rolls all his ward saves, and the first unsaved wound gets blocked by the armour?

I feel it should be the first explanation otherwise it's in essence 2 saves against the same wound and I thought you could only do 1 ward save.

This is a bit unclear right now.

The core rules define wards as abilities that negate wounds before they are allocated. So you should get a ward roll before you actually allocate and negate the wound with Armour of Tempelhof.

However, Deathless Minions in the Gravelords battletome says that you roll a dice each time you allocate a wound. This implies it happens after wound allocation, so you would first prevent one wound with Armour of Tempelhof, then roll Deathless Minions for the rest.

I would personally play Deathless Minions as being a ward, despite the slightly ambiguous wording. It seems like the definition of ward in the new core rules is supposed to apply to existing wound negation abilities, even if they are not explicitly called wards. The wording of Deathless Minions is also compatible with the interpretation that you negate the wound before it is allocated, even if it's not explicit. So I would play it the first way: Roll Deathless Minions for all wounds, and negate the first one that actually gets through with Armour of Tempelhof.

1 hour ago, Grugg said:

3. Nagash has access to morikan

'Roll a dice each time you allocate a mortal wound to this model. On a 1-3, nothing happens. On a 4-5, that mortal wound is negated. On a 6, that mortal wound is negated and the attacking unit suffers 1 mortal wound'

But also access to deathless minion 

'Roll a dice each time you allocate a wound or mortal wound to a friendly SOULBLIGHT GRAVELORDS unit wholly within 12" of a friendly SOULBLIGHT GRAVELORDS HERO or gravesite. On a 6+, that wound or mortal wound is negated.'

Am I correct in thinking you must choose which of these to apply? You cannot use morikan and then deathless for any unsaved wounds?

You are correct. "Up to 1 ward roll can be made for each wound or mortal wound before it is allocated to the model in question.", as per Core Rules 14.3.