Expendable Grunt Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Hi people. I’m a returning fantasy player, looking to get into AoS with Death. As I don’t have a great deal of disposable income atm, I don’t want to commit do something without at least a little peer review beforehand. That said, i've been mulling over two different lists, one for Nighthaunt, and one for FEC. They both start out of 1000 points, before expanding to 2000. I can only really afford one army at present, so I’m looking for some advice on which would be the better to start out with. A few things before we begin: · I’m notoriously bad at painting hordes. A big 40-man unit is fine, but two would be a little too much for me, I feel. · I’m not looking to be super-competitive, just to stand a decent chance at a win at my local store. That said, here are the lists: Nighthaunt: 1000pts: Knight of Shrouds (mounted) 140pts General Ruler of the Spirit Hosts Guardian of Souls 140pts Soul Cage Beacon of Nagashizzar Hexwraiths x10 320pts Grimghast Reapers x20 280pts Spirit Hosts x3 120pts Total: 1000pts Basic Plan: I know Hexwraiths aren’t thought of as great crunch-wise, but I love the models. The KoS will accompany these, and target the enemy elites. Hopefully the recursion of RotSH and the GoS will be enough to win an attrition fight, despite their mediocre damage output. The Grimghasts will go after any enemy hordes, and hopefully blend through them. The Spirit Hosts with start in the underworld, and either deep strike lone characters/artillery pieces, or drop into the backfield to secure an objective. Questions: · Is it worth splitting the Hexwraiths into two units of five at this points level? Whilst it’ll let them cover more ground, I’m wary that they might be wiped out in a turn at that size, wasting any potential recursion. A single large unit also makes them easier for the KoS to buff. · Are Spirit Hosts good for objective babysitting? It’s a lot of points and, whilst they’re hard to shift, they’re only three models for the purposes of objective contesting. 2000pts: Lady Olynder 240pts General Knight of Shrouds (mounted) 140pts Guardian of Souls 140pts Soul Cage Beacon of Nagashizzar Hexwraiths x10 320pts Hexwraiths x5 160pts Spirit Hosts x6 240pts Spirit Hosts x3 120pts Grimghast Reapers x30 360pts Black Coach 280pts Total: 2000pts Basic Plan: This list follows the basic principles as the first one. The KoS, the large unit of Hexwraiths, the Grimghasts, the GoS and the Coach will start on the board. The Hexwraiths, KoS, and Coach will push up, targeting elites, where the GoS and the Grimghasts will do the same with any hordes. Lady Olynder will drop in next to the biggest enemy threat, bubble-wrapped in the big unit of Spirit Hosts, and hopefully nuke it with mortals. The small unit of Hexwraiths will roam the opponent’s side of the table, looking to hunt down exposed characters or war machines, whereas the small unit of Spirit hosts will hopefully secure an objective in my own territory. With Lady O’s command ability hopefully hitting more than one multi-wound unit a turn, the wounds-per-turn recursion should be pretty high, further boosted by the Coach and GoS. Questions: · Is Lady O’s command ability worth it, or am I better off making the KoS the general again, and giving him RotSH? It has to hit at least three units to break even with RotSH on a lucky roll. · How important are battalions here? Should I be stretching to include one? Deathriders looks good, but is incredibly pricy all told. Meanwhile, the Execution Horde doesn’t really bring much of a benefit outside of the CP and artefact. · Is the whole thing a bit ******? I’ve only got Lady O, the Coach, and the Grimghasts as ‘hammers’, really. Can Nighthaunt win slow recursion based wars of attrition with a list like this, or is that not really playing to their strengths as an army? Flesh Eater Courts: 1000pts: Grand Court: Hollowmourne Crypt Haunter Courtier 120pts General Graverobber Corpse Fang Gauntlet Abhorrant Archregent 200pts Blood Feast Dermal Robe Crypt Ghouls x20 200pts Crypt Horrors x3 160pts Crypt Horrors x3 160pts Abattoir 120pts Chalice of Ushoran 40pts Total: 1000pts Basic Plan: I wanted to try and make a workable FEC army that didn’t revolve around Flayer spam or monster mashing. The AA summons a unit of 20 ghouls, which will hopefully either secure my territory and any objectives therein, or pressure the enemy backfield, if I face a gunline list. Meanwhile, the Abattoir pushes up, supported by the AA, who drops the Chalice when the lines meet. Hopefully, the recursion from the spell and the Courtier will give the front line enough longevity for the free mortal wounds of the Abattoir battalion to do some real work. Questions: · Do I have enough ghouls? A unit of 20 seems a bit weedy and prone to one-turn wiping, before the chalice can do its thing. Which leads me on to- · Is the Abattoir battalion worth it at this points limit? It makes the army a two-drop list, which is always nice, but those points could add another ten ghouls to the unit of twenty, making it a lot tougher to remove. · Am I screwed without rend? There is very little rend in this army. Hence the Abattoir battalion and the choice of the Blood Feast spell on the AA, to try and get some mortals in there to counter this. That said, without flayers or monsters, are there any other decent sources of rend available? 2000pts: Grand Court: Hollowmourne Abhorrant Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon 440pts General Graverobber Corpsefang Gauntlet Monstrous Vigour Abhorrant Archregent 200pts Spectral Host Dermal Robe Crypt Haunter Courtier 120pts Crypt Ghouls x 40 360pts Crypt Horrors x 6 320pts Crypt Horrors x 6 320pts Dire Wolves x5 60pts Abattoir 120pts Chalice of Ushoran 40pts Basic plan: This list is an attempt to correct the lack of rend in the previous one, whilst bolstering its emphasis on recursion. The AA and AGKoZD both summon Varghulfs here, giving me other sources of rending attacks, and, in conjunction with the courtier, 3d6 worth of muster dice a turn to throw at the front lines. The basic plan remains the same, this time with the AGKoZD acting as a hammer to the anvil of the Abattoir, and the dire wolves chaffing away in the enemy backlines. Questions: Abattoir or Attendants at Court? The mortals of the former are always nice, but having two big units of Horrors not dependent on an Abhorrant in proximity to get those rerolls is also great. Zombie Dragon or Terrorghiest? I went with the ZD, as it’s normal attacks and breath weapon have better rend, which the list still sorely lacks. The Varghulf summon also plays into the recursion strategy nicely, as does the unique spell, which will hopefully result in those horror units rerolling both their hit and wound rolls. That said, I’ve heard great things about the Terrorghesit, particularly it’s six mortals bite, which would add a lot of anti-armour punch. The unique spell would also be great for the long-game approach, adding another 5+ save to either the ghouls or a horror unit. …Well that turned out much longer than expected. If you’re still reading by this point, you have my sincere thanks. Which of the two armies do you think would be the more reliable bet? Any advice or criticism, constructive or otherwise, would be much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReN Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 I'll drop some thoughts on FEC First list does not really benefit from grand court since you already unlock horrors as BL due to courtier being a general, so going for better trait and artefact will be better option, something like Runeblade from Chamon or Dimentional Blade from Ulgu will make your courtier a one scary as hell powerhouse with -3 rend 3 damage attacks, just keep him within the rerolls aura of archregent, then you can even give him combat-oriented command trait, or make him a wizard. And without court you will have access to delusion, getting a Feast Day will be really nice, essentially allowing you to do 2 Fedding Frenzies a turn Now about the ghouls, you will have troubles against alpha strike or heavy shooting lists, but it stays true to any FEC list, so what I think will be right is to treat your ghouls as expendable meat shield, since you can call in more, they are really there just to soak up damage and stop charges before your knights can choose beneficial engagement. I think that battalion is, indeed, worth it, it helps to control turn order, gives you artefact, a CP and some nice MW sprinkled on top which now work better than before. As for rend, unless there are stormcasts spamming 2+ save you are fine even without armor-cracking courtier and can bring enemies down with sheer mass of attacks. If there are such stormcast around, you will have a hard time at any situation. For 2K list I think it's decent, horrors can hit like a truck, GKoZD can as well, I'm not sold on wolves though, I would rather go with additional CP, also your spell choice is not great, giving Archregent a deranged transformation will be a 100% better choice, because it can give your horror train additional 4", way better than fly, now for GKoZD I would either go with blood feast to do some healing on the front or as you with monstrous vigour. And gauntlet should go on courtier, it can not be used at all, but in battleplans where heroes with artefacts score it will give you much more benefit than simple MWs on charge. For the battalion and mounted GK I suggest going with attendants at court and GKoZD because it will allow you to move around independently with your horrors without losing their rerolls whch is HUGE and GKoZD will help you by sending Varghulf to follow one unit of horrors whille Haunter goes with the other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expendable Grunt Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share Posted February 19, 2019 This is brilliant stuff! Thank you, XReN! I'll modify the lists to take your advice into account. Would you say i'd be better off with a FEC rather than NH at present? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReN Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 10 hours ago, Expendable Grunt said: This is brilliant stuff! Thank you, XReN! I'll modify the lists to take your advice into account. Would you say i'd be better off with a FEC rather than NH at present? I can't say much about nighthaunt since I haven't been very interested in them or theorising lists for them, but I'm not really impressed by how they work, from my point of view FEC are both stronger and more fun to play, but I think you might want to wait/ask people in Nighthaunt Discussion to hear more opinions and info before making your decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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