Save rolls of "1" and Celestant Prime

[Vextol]

I was wondering if celestant prime "changing" his die is the same as modifying the die?  This would effectively mean that his save rolls of "1" would still hurt him even if he changed it to a "6".

I was hoping the new rules would clarify what a "modification" to a die roll is.  I was glad that they clarified that a roll cannot be lower than 1.  That answers a few questions.  But there are still the few warscrolls (Celestant-Prime, Archaon, Starseer, Kairos, etc.) that have confusing abilities.

I won't beat the dead horse, but does anyone have experience with these guys and the old "Rules of 1" or the new sudo rules of 1 and anything official?  It seems that the new rules indicate that modifiers will use the term "add" or "subtract".  Is everything else considered not a modification?

Thanks!

 

[BaldoBeardo]

11 hours ago, Vextol said:

I was wondering if celestant prime "changing" his die is the same as modifying the die?  This would effectively mean that his save rolls of "1" would still hurt him even if he changed it to a "6".

I was hoping the new rules would clarify what a "modification" to a die roll is.  I was glad that they clarified that a roll cannot be lower than 1.  That answers a few questions.  But there are still the few warscrolls (Celestant-Prime, Archaon, Starseer, Kairos, etc.) that have confusing abilities.

I won't beat the dead horse, but does anyone have experience with these guys and the old "Rules of 1" or the new sudo rules of 1 and anything official?  It seems that the new rules indicate that modifiers will use the term "add" or "subtract".  Is everything else considered not a modification?

Thanks!

 

I think you need to look at it from the opposite direction. You're looking for reasons why it *is* modifying, when it's already indicated it isn't.

Modifiers are adding or subtracting X to the unmodifed result to get the modified result.

Changing the die isn't adding or subtracting X, it's replacing the die roll.

Changing a die is - mechanically speaking - a re-roll where you pick the result.

[Vextol]

6 hours ago, BaldoBeardo said:

I think you need to look at it from the opposite direction. You're looking for reasons why it *is* modifying, when it's already indicated it isn't.

Modifiers are adding or subtracting X to the unmodifed result to get the modified result.

Changing the die isn't adding or subtracting X, it's replacing the die roll.

Changing a die is - mechanically speaking - a re-roll where you pick the result.

I agree (completely) but my confusion came from all the rewording in maggot kin demons where plague bearers and plague drones regenerate on "an unmodified roll of 1."  I didn't see why they needed to make that clarification.

The question is if a starseer can stop that ability by increasing their die roll of 1 to a 2.  It feels like they can because as you said, it's not a modifier but a kind of reroll (confusing because the starseer CAN actually reroll, but I'm talking about the spell) 

The problem with the logic of viewing it as a reroll is that, in Archaon's case, if a die roll is altered (not modified), abilities that force a reroll (like kairos or starseer) could still force that because the die hasn't actually been rerolled.   For Archaon, he could do it again because his ability doesn't specify singularity but prime and starseer would be out of luck. 

The concept still stands though.  You are actually altering the physical value of the roll with those kinds of abilities, not getting a physical value and then adding ethereal numbers to it outside the game. 

Anyway, I'm glad other people see it the same way I do.  Archaon's crown gets a 33% boost now that it's clear he can't make a number go below 1.  

Super excited for upcoming stuff!!