Skryre warpstone sparks damage modifying

[Tasman]

It came up in a game, so here it is:

The dude playing skryre was going to use the sparks to double the damage of certain attacks. We figured that as far as units like storm fiends, the damage for ONE of their projectors would double to 4d3. No problem there.

The problem arose when he wanted to double the damage output of a lightening cannon.

it's one shot that does 'x' number of "hits", then mortal wounds.

Does the damage of only one of the mortal wounds double, or all of them? Does the roll go a '1', for example, double to 12 mortal wounds, or would it be 7?

And finally, does he have to state that he's using the spark prior to rolling the damage?

[BaldoBeardo]

In the case of the Stormfiends, the 1.2 FAQ confirms that it's not 4D3, but (2D3)*2. So you roll damage as normal, then double it.

Sparks won't work on the Warp Lightning cannon as the ability specifically states the "Damage Characteristic".

The warp lightning cannon doesn't have a D characteristic, so as worded the sparks won't work on it.

(See Starsoul Mace Q under 'attacking' in the FAQ)

[Tasman]

5 hours ago, BaldoBeardo said:

In the case of the Stormfiends, the 1.2 FAQ confirms that it's not 4D3, but (2D3)*2. So you roll damage as normal, then double it.

Sparks won't work on the Warp Lightning cannon as the ability specifically states the "Damage Characteristic".

The warp lightning cannon doesn't have a D characteristic, so as worded the sparks won't work on it.

(See Starsoul Mace Q under 'attacking' in the FAQ)

My friend is still vehemently claiming that the damage output on the WLC is random damage so therefore should be affected by the sparks. 

This one is going to go on for a looooong time, I'm afraid.

Also, the FAQ that you mention refers to attack characteristics, not damage. would this, as he insists, make a difference?

[BaldoBeardo]

 

12 minutes ago, Tasman said:

My friend is still vehemently claiming that the damage output on the WLC is random damage so therefore should be affected by the sparks. 

This one is going to go on for a looooong time, I'm afraid.

Thankfully, this one really isn't open to interpretation. The Stormfiends have random damage, but it's still listed as a characteristic. The Warp Lightning cannon doesn't have a Damage Characteristic.

Yes, it inflicts damage, but it doesn't have a damage characteristic.

Sparksdoesn't double damage, it doubles the damage characteristic. This isn't unique to that one warscroll.

Like I said, Starsoul Mace Q under 'attacking' in the FAQ. If you don't have a stat, then modifiers to that stat have no effect.

If the argument carries on, then start demanding he rolls to hit and wound with it...

 

[BaldoBeardo]

48 minutes ago, Tasman said:

Also, the FAQ that you mention refers to attack characteristics, not damage. would this, as he insists, make a difference?

Not really. It reinforces the precedent (set by Save values) that modifiers that affect a stat have no effect on something that doesn't have that stat.

How would +1 to hit affect it? How would -1 to wound affect it?

If your opponent can answer these questions, then he might have a point.

[Tasman]

1 hour ago, BaldoBeardo said:

Not really. It reinforces the precedent (set by Save values) that modifiers that affect a stat have no effect on something that doesn't have that stat.

How would +1 to hit affect it? How would -1 to wound affect it?

If your opponent can answer these questions, then he might have a point.

So, how does the storm fiends get it? No To hit or wound, and if so, does it only affect one dude, or all of them. I'm so confused....

[BaldoBeardo]

33 minutes ago, Tasman said:

So, how does the storm fiends get it? No To hit or wound, and if so, does it only affect one dude, or all of them. I'm so confused....

Because I done fuffed up - forgot about Warpfire projectors...

They are in exactly the same boat as the lightning cannon. They have no stat line. The other random damage weapons the storm fiends have work as explained in conjunction with sparks.

But no damage characteristic on the weapon stat line means that sparks don't work.

[Sastopher]

Can I ask a follow-up question with similar parameters?

If I target a stormfiend, what do I double the damage of? All 4 of its attacks that hit, or a single attack? And if it's the later, and that stormfiend has shock gauntlets and one of its hit rolls was a 6+, does it double each of those? In other words, what defines the scope of "an attack"? My reading is that each attack is counted separate (so a single swing), but the exploding hits for 6+ would count.

Relevant language:

Quote

... or to double the Damage characteristic of a weapon used by a SKRYRE model from your army for one successful attack.

Quote

If the hit roll for an attack made by a Shock Gauntlet is 6 or more, that attack scores D6 hits rather than 1 as the electrical discharge arcs between targets.

 

[Tasman]

Alrighty then. He ain't gonna like it, but I didn't like it when I was told that my Destiny Dice couldn't be used on mortal wounds

31 minutes ago, BaldoBeardo said:

Because I done fuffed up - forgot about Warpfire projectors...

They are in exactly the same boat as the lightning cannon. They have no stat line. The other random damage weapons the storm fiends have work as explained in conjunction with sparks.

But no damage characteristic on the weapon stat line means that sparks don't work.

 

[Flood]

This topic came up in other threads. The sparks cant be used on mortal wounds, as mortal wounds dont have a damage characteristic. For stormfiends, it doesnt work on their warpfire projectors as the damage characteristic is "-". You could use it on, say, grinder weapons. 

[BaldoBeardo]

7 hours ago, Sastopher said:

Can I ask a follow-up question with similar parameters?

If I target a stormfiend, what do I double the damage of? All 4 of its attacks that hit, or a single attack? And if it's the later, and that stormfiend has shock gauntlets and one of its hit rolls was a 6+, does it double each of those? In other words, what defines the scope of "an attack"? My reading is that each attack is counted separate (so a single swing), but the exploding hits for 6+ would count.

Relevant language:

 

I'd agree on the 'single swing' bit, as the ability is worded.

In the specific case of the shock gauntlets, even if it wasn't heavily implied, it specifically says "an attack" gets multiplied into D6 hits.

Which, if you used a spark, would all be resolved at D4...!