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RsRabin

1k mixed death advice

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Hey folks, been playing AoS for a little while, though mostly other factions. I have a 1k tournament coming up, and I'm like people's thoughts and concerns on my list.

Royal Warsphinx, general, RotN, Tomb Blade

Vampire lord on Abyssal Terror

6x Necropolis Knights

10x zombie

10x zombie

 

My thoughts are in a 1k game I want to make the support removing pieces of the other players worthless by having no soft targets. It's a really high amount of defense which I don't see many lists being able to crack, with the recursion of the knights and the healing of the tomb blade and spells from vamp.

Let me know your thoughts! Thanks

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Came up against two Stormcast lists and a Tzeentch list this weekend at a 1K tournament, and they would eat this part for breakfast with how elite it is. A good deathstar will roll through a unit at a time, maybe two. (Damn Retributors.) 

Or doesn't help that you have two lots of ten zombies which are easy fodder for ranged weapons, robbing you of the numbers to capture. 

You'll also struggle massively with objectives given your small numbers and small numbers of units. Gifts From the Heavens, Border War, Take and Hold, and Blood and Glory will be tough if not impossible for you. 

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Interested to see what other people think too about how death can 'make-it-work' at 1k. Does having bodies generally work better? Mobility (in the form of speed and/or summoning)? Powerhouse? Synergies? 

I've seen quite a few theories, especially with objectivehammer, but they haven't really panned out consistently.

I've tried a few combos myself but haven't seen anything that doesn't have at least suffer from A) getting shot down B) getting mauled by deathstars C)both. So far I've found a combo of buffs/debuffs has worked out for now...but I haven't gone against any real gunlines at 1k. I'm suspecting I'll get picked off before I reach the other side. 

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3 hours ago, CoffeeGrunt said:

Came up against two Stormcast lists and a Tzeentch list this weekend at a 1K tournament, and they would eat this part for breakfast with how elite it is. A good deathstar will roll through a unit at a time, maybe two. (Damn Retributors.) 

Or doesn't help that you have two lots of ten zombies which are easy fodder for ranged weapons, robbing you of the numbers to capture. 

You'll also struggle massively with objectives given your small numbers and small numbers of units. Gifts From the Heavens, Border War, Take and Hold, and Blood and Glory will be tough if not impossible for you. 

Could I get an example of a stormcast list? I've fought stormcast at 1k with my ironjawz and my sylvaneth and won handily, and my death list hasn't lost to either of my other lists in my test games vs them with friends.  I realize just because rock beats scissors  it doesn't mean it beats paper, I'd like to know the list so I can get a test game, because currently I don't see it.

 

For what it's worth, the zombies will combine into a single unit of 20,  and 2 units of judicators will on average only kill ~8.2 zombies, with ~3.5 getting back up each turn.  If that's how they want to use 320 points over 3-4 turns I'd gladly take it.

Any lists people see me having issues with I'd love to see so I can get some actual games in rather than just my speculation.

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The first list was a block of Protectors with max Starsoul Maces and the spears. They had Buffy McLantern behind them to give them a 2+ Save if they didn't charge this turn with healing on a 5+, not to mention 4D3 Mortal Wounds a turn as well as the spears, which aren't too shabby either.

Rolled a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon into them in tandem with 5 Blood Knights. As they have W3 each only a few died, they then did 13 Wounds to the VLoZD and a few to the Blood Knights. I had double turn, healed the VLoZD with Blood Chalice and then they disassembled it, (no point retreating with that little health, too slow.) The Blood Knights then got it and were annihilated.

Second game was against a similar list, though they had a block of Retributors instead. I chanced a Damned terrain to give my VLoZD +1 to Hit in exchange for a Mortal Wound. He managed to charge me during a double-turn after I wiped his Judicators out with the Blood Knights. He had 3x Relictors granting Blessed Weapons to the Retributors, so every 6 they roll inflicted 2 Mortal Wounds and then rolled additional attacks, as well as the normal hits from the hammers. I suffered 14 Mortal Wounds despite the Starsoul Mace not being able to get in, and the VLoZD was gone after a shoddy Deathless Minions roll, despite Ruler of the Night.

The next turn they wiped out a squad of Blood Knights in the same way.

The last game was against Tzeentch and, you guessed it, another Deathstar list. Massive block of Tzaangors, max special weapons, something like 40 attacks at Rend -1 Damage 2. Yeah, nasty.

Trust me, running an elite list like this is not the way.

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I think if your opponents are using

  1. Newer armies with "better" rules
  2. Highly efficient units
  3. Reliable mortal wound output, or

You probably need to use the best tools that death has.

Mourngul, 40 skeletons, Morghast Archai, Spirit Hosts, Dire Wolves

To me, this these are the units that death has that actually perform consistently. (VLOZD is expensive, although good, a bit fragile vs. the best stuff).

That, or wrap the hammer units (VLOZD / Sphinx) with dire wolves to let you appropriately alpha.

Hard to fit reliable hammer + reliable chaff + non squishy general into a 1K death list.

Fortunately a Mourngul is quite absurd at 1K games, so you can try to use that to your advantage.

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What I'm reading more and more is that basically updated armies usually have an easier time in general. They just seem to have more options in terms of how they want something done. The opposite goes for armies like death (all kinds of aelves, beastmen, etc. ) We really need to be much more considerate and thoughtful towards list-making. 

I'm going to sound like a broken record here but IMHO, although it would be totally awesome to get new units (doesn't everybody want this?) is to get an updated battletome and possibly our own magic lore. 

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Sure everybody wants new units.

Everybody also wants new battletome/codex with updated, modernized, likely more powerful &/or more synergistic rules.

More recent rules usually also take in to account abilities they want every army to have access to (MORTAL WOUNDS, REND -2, SOOTING) or capabilities to compete in the most recent battleplans/scenarios. (I.e. heroes that can survive three places of power, options for fast mobility on objective control).

I think GW is confused on how to move forward with Death, at least they're not public about the future direction...So 0 model releases, and one rules release (which helped FEC dramatically, FEC would be trash without that updated battletome), means Death is obviously left behind.

Old news at this point. Just be happy about GW's current method of releasing rules regardless of models (See Khorne), and grab a number and wait in line for a release. :D

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For what it's worth, I did take this list to the tournament, and it did okay. My first match up was vs a Tzaangor Deathstar list. I did lose, however at the end it was my pretty healthy Warsphinx trying to chase down the last 3 Tzaangors from his blob, and him running due to that unit being worth more points than the Sphinx. It was his only minor victory of the night, he went on to win the whole thing getting majors vs everyone else, so it wasn't just a bad player.  The key is really to just eat the alpha while positioned correctly so they can't kill too many knights before they can regenerate and retaliate with a full unit again. That said, the lack of a way to snipe key pieces is rough, I don't think I'll be playing my death in 1k tournaments, as bradifer says, just feels too tough to fit everything into death at 1k.

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This list will also suffer heavily under the new points costs in GHII.  Between the royal (+100), the terror (+80), and the necroknights (2x +80), you're looking at a 340 point price hike.

I'm not even sure I'd even argue that some of those points hikes aren't deserved, but unless we see a lot of decreases elsewhere, or similar hikes in other factions, I'm not really sure what competitive Death armies are supposed to even look like after that, at least at the 1000 point level.  As far as I could tell, trying to capitalize on the admittedly criminally under-priced necropolis knights was about the only thing we had going in that kind of setting.

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