Klamm
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Posts posted by Klamm
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Coalition units included in a Blades of Khorne, Disciples of Tzeentch, Hedonites of Slaanesh or Maggotkin of Nurgle army no longer benefit from allegiance abilities.
Question about this. Does that mean that, say, a Slaves to Darkness Daemon prince with the mark of Slaanesh can't be given a Hedonites command trait? Or is this just allegiance abilities?
TBH I'm disappointed with how much GW has discouraged taking BoC/StD in mono-god armies. They struck a good balance in AoS 2.0, where allegiance abilities worked with the god mark but most command abilities required Hedonites/Maggotkin etc.
I should get more synergy from a unit of Slaaneshi chaos warriors in a Hedonites army than just allying in some Plaguebearers, but the only difference is I'm not limited to 400 points with the former. It's a bad change.
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[come to think of it belongs in the winter update thread]
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A flying ghost ship would rule, it would be great to get to the point where you have speciality flying naval combat game. Kharadron Overlords, Nighaunt, Skaven and Grotbag Scuttlers duking it out in the skies.
On another note, I'm guessing this natfka post has been discussed already but this snippet really surprised me:
IDK the worst selling army? I'd have bet anything it would be Fyreslayers, I always assumed Deepkin sold solidly.
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If that IJ leak is legit, I'm surprised Ardboyz are staying in unit buys of 5. I was expecting them and chaos warriors to come in 10s.
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I assume Kragnos will eventually lead a new destruction faction that matches his aesthetic (not necessarily Drogrukh , but matching him as the OBR match Nagash).
Usually the big centrepiece 'god character' comes out along with the rest of the faction (Teclis, Morathi, Alarielle) but not always. Archaon kind of had a barebones everchosen mini-faction in AoS 1.0, but it eventually got consolidated under a unified Slaves to Darkness battletome. It wasn't until Bonereapers that Nagash was slotted into an army that reflected his theme and aesthetic.
From what we've seen of the Kruelboyz, they don't really riff much on Kragnos' design (despite the Murknob). Since Destruction seems to be getting the GA Death treatment of last edition, I imagine that means in 2022/23 we get a new faction that is to Kragnos what OBR was to Nagash. Otherwise he'll be the first big god character who is a battletome orphan. I guess that's appropriate for his story, but I'd still bet against it being permanent.
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Analysing texts for politics is obviously fine. AoS's sibling is more up front with that stuff, but that's because it deals with more reflections of 'modernity' than a setting riffing on medieval fantasy.
I get why people have questioned the term 'crusade'. The term is arguably appropriate for how they seem to be using it in AoS, it's just 'crusade' has been misapplied onto real life conflicts which have zero actual link with the history the term describes (conflicts such as those which have their 20 year anniversary this year) so that's where that conversation arises.
I saw some people talking about Sigmarite colonialism. It's a valid but separate conversation, colonialism being a more modern concept than that of crusades. Sigmarite cities kind of straddle different modes of production (I guess it was ever thus), because GW wants to create a fun sandbox setting. No complaints there.
Anyway for more info on this topic check out a cool battletome GW produced!
Very cool book, lore everyone should know!
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Any rumours about whether the orruk release will have anything for Ironjawz/Bonesplitterz?
Kruelboyz being one of three factions within Warclans is a cool idea. Kruelboyz are the aspect of Mork, Ironjawz Gork, Bonesplitterz are kind of the purest in their Gorkamorka worship. And it also means those factions can be more niche, since they can plug up eachothers' gaps.
But I do feel Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz could do with getting a few extras. The latter in particular, I know they're monster hunters but a rogue idol type behemoth would do a lot to make the army look less samey.
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Skaven are a "unified" army, a subfaction of Skryre that just use airships would be strange without nothing for Eshin and Moulder.
Skryre's remit of "weird tech" is very fertile but would be easy to overload. The solution? Make the Skaven pirates their own great clan.
If you read the Skaventide battletome, an entire great clan disappeared through a gnawhole. It's a fun story to leave open ended, but GW could just as easily have them return from the hinterlands as master explorers (exploration being a solid theme to set beside engineering, assassination and disease). So you could still have sky-ships but perhaps only incorporating some Skryre stuff (like how Stormfiends mix Skryre and Moulder technology).
I'd love to see Skaven sky-fleets riffing on 17th century naval explorers (rats in tricorn hats that form the Skaven icon). Coz Skaven are meant to be the most evil and exploitative faction in Warhammer, so what better fit for a British colonial aesthetic?
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So they edited that article huh
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Interesting narrative series which shakes up the status quo? Execution so rushed they likely scrapped an entire campaign book? The ending spoiled early?
Broken Realms 🤝 The End Times.
The main difference? The fanbase is conditioned to actually WANT narrative progression.
I mean the other difference is that the end times had tie-in novels, some of which were alright (thank you Josh Reynolds). Broken Realms coulda used that. There's a difference between 'lore' and 'story' and not everyone enjoys wiki summaries.
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Calling it now, this is from the launch of AoS3 trailer that's dropping next week. Presumably these are both previews of the starter box figs too.
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1 minute ago, KingBrodd said:
I would be more suprised to NOT see a Destruction Faction in the Starter set.
On the one hand you're right. They've done chaos, death, it seems to follow they'd do destruction. But there's one factor which makes me doubtful.
Both AoS starters reflected the focus of the narrative at that time. It launched with the realmgate wars, where Khorne was the ascendant god and the spear of Archaon's counter-attack against the Stromcast. The second chapter revolved around Nagash's schemes (building to Malign Sorcery and Wrath of the Everchosen). So in both cases, the faction set against the stormcast either represents their primary antagonist or is actually driving the narrative.
Destruction isn't suited to being a primary antagonist. It's not impossible, but the majority of destruction factions have no coherent shared objective (the closest thing is the Gitz wanting to spread the everdank). Perhaps they could band together through a shared worship of Gorkamorka, but the fun is how different and vague their individual interpretations of him are.
Making destruction primary antagonists would risk ruining what makes them charming, the fact they're kind of arbitrary and reactive. Orruks, ogors and gargants aren't looking to rule the realms like Archaon or Nagash. They're all about eat, pray, fight.
But since we're only 1 book into an at least 3 part Broken Realms saga, it's hard to guess where the next phase of story is going. The absence of destruction in them is suspicious ,maybe building to a starter, or maybe there's a 4th BR: Gordrakk book that they'll cram in before next ed.
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In terms of new factions, there are obvious candidates like Grotbag Scuttlers, Silent People or revamped chaos dwarfs, but honestly I'd like to be surprised with left field stuff.
My wishlist is for the AoS 3.0 Starter to set a particular tone of releases and lore direction: Cities of Sigmar vs Skaven or Beastmen.
Cities of Sigmar half is the part I'm particuarly interested in. Now, I know we've only ever had SCE in starter boxes (and to be fair they are in need of rules update) but on the other hand, Sigmarite cities have been a major focus of post realmgate wars lore and haven't gotten a proper release. So what to do?
Well, both. AoS 3.0's start could have Liberators (mixed gender this time) alongside new freeguild guard (comprised of humans, aelves and duardin), with both books coming out quick succession. Most of all, AoS 3.0 establishes it's narrative direction to focus on CoS as the 'protagonist faction' alongside Stormcast because they're both at their most interesting when framed together.
Like, it's great that the Hallowed Knights finally get their own character in Gardus, but I'd like to see stormhosts fleshed out alongside their settlements. So, a year after AoS 3.0 launches with a load of Cities models (presumably themed to Hammerhal Aqshy and Ghyra), you could do Battletome: Shyish. This would have additional lore and rules for the cities Lethis and Glymsforge as well as focus on the Anvils of the Heldenhammer stormhost. Along with this, there could be some Shyish themed Cities units and maybe a model for Lord Arcanum Balthus.
That's the model I want AoS to move to in future for those factions. We've seen how Warcry allows for fun variations on the theme of chaos marauder, so a release format that does that for AoS while also distinguishing different stormhosts from one another.
Like, come one, we've all read some novel or lore snippet that gets you hyped for AoS cities models. Demigryph Knights with bark armour? Those strange War Priests that live on a giant worm? YES PLEASE.
Oh, and for the CoS range to be properly kitbashable, head and weapon options for different realms.
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While everyone saying that Glaivewraith Stalkers have horse skulls are correct, wanna share that in the Lady of Sorrows book they're described as having rodent faces so nobody is on the same page about this lol
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4 minutes ago, ian0delond said:
But at the same time, the joke with gorkamorka is no one agree what gorkamorka is. That's the difference with Order and Death where the Pantheon is extremely well defined. sons of Behemath believes it is a pair of giant feet stomping, Gloomspite, the bad moon...
Making a destruction faction that worship a random deity, but doesn't call it Gorkamorka is removing the snarky thing circling Destruction and just make it the Alliance of armies that didn't fit in the other three categories.
I agree the joke that Gorkamorka is extremely vague and can be basically whatever people want him to be is fun, but disagree that Destruction lacks an identity apart from that.
I stand by the fact that there's a shared ideological and material interest, just like the other 3 GAs do. Destruction is sort of the opposite of Death (though they aren't narratively framed in opposition like chaos and order are). Death, like order, is concerned with civilisation building and law. It's just that this crosses beyond the "I just want to grill" version of civilisation that many order factions want into a megalomaniacal ambition for everything to be subsumed under Nagash's law, and ultimately dead.
Destruction's factions reject both of these tenants. They're ideologically (or materially in the case of BCR) prevented from establishing civilisation. They are disorganised and lawless. This is kind of similar to GA Chaos, which in most cases rejects the establishment of stable civilisation (you have an exception here and there, like Carngrad in the Varanspire), but then chaos mirrors Death in having a clear goal of dominion in mind, albeit split across several different gods.
Now, I would agree that in rejecting both law and the goal of dominion, Destruction is the vaguest of the 4 confederations of interest. This kind of mirrors order, since the end goal of its factions is survival and flourishing but each one has a different vision of what that means. For some, like the Khainites, this ends up turning into something like Chaos' ambitions of domination.
In any case, I'd say Destruction has an ideological identity that can be understood in contrast to the other three GAs and without mentioning Gorkamorka. It's also a good way of seeing why Destruction factions are ill-suited to being the driving force behind the narrative, better suited to being catalysts or supporting players. In seeking survival/flourishing over dominion and being disorganized instead of lawful, they kind of choose the less active option twice.
Order has a disunified end goal but are strongly aligned in terms of preserving civilisation and being opposed to chaos. Chaos is the opposite, they have several coherent end goals in an alliance of convenience, while their short term objectives are varied and individualistic. Death is probably best suited toward antagonism, having a single clear end goal and unified organisation. That's kind of why I doubt we'll sea Destruction get the Death treatment in AoS3. To put it simply:
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I agree that IDK shouldn't be considered at the front of the queue for expansion. Being so new, there isn't a bad quality sculpt in the range (Beast of Chaos, Seraphon or Skaven players are sobbing into their finecast) and the faction has more variety than the likes of Sylvaneth, Fyreslayers or Flesh-eater Courts. They're in a similar boat as Kharadron Overlords (pun not intended). Room for expansion, but not a priority.
However, there is an obvious part they should flesh out. Since the soul harvesting and resultant caste stratification is their most unique narrative aspect, I'd hope GW expands the namarti range. At the moment we just have infantry, which is fine but not really the reason anyone likes Idoneth.
Proud Akhelians ride surface water beasts like Sharks, Turtles and Eels, so it'd feel right if Namarti were shunted off to the sunless depths to retrieve creatures monstrous fangtooth fish, bioluminescent jellyfish and hell, maybe even sea urchins. Remember how the original IDK rumour emphasised the Lovecraftian "deep one" element? Deep sea creatures would be perfect for that.
And it would create a strong contrast between the Akhelian and Namarti side of the range. Akhelians ride fierce creatures of war, whereas Namarti should be associated with weird monstrosities that are primarily used for construction or infrastructure. The lore already mentions bioluminescence as lot, so maybe Namarti are tasked with subduing dangerous Jellysfish that can also be used in war. And who doesn't want to see a sea urchin warscroll?!
And there's one more reason this makes sense. At the moment, the Idoneth roster resembles a 'raiding party', those tasked with going abroad to get souls. But as Slaanesh's power grows and order's alliances fracture it would make sense that their enclaves are besieged. The situation would get so dire that raiding parties wouldn't be enough, so Namarti labourers would be pushed onto the battlefield to use their sea beasts of burden for battle instead.
tl;dr Idoneth shouldn't be next in line for update, but it would be cool, specifically a deep sea namarti update that emphasises the cruel hierarchy of their society while making their narrative staus quo even more fraught.
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I'm into the idea of a insect-orientated human society, especially if they end up in destruction. I that GA needs some humans, else it risks feeling like it's drawn along species lines instead of the more interesting ideological definition.
Destruction rejects both GA Order and Death's notions of civilisation, but is also opposed to Chaos' aspirations of dominion. They're similar to Order in the sense that their main goals are survive and flourish, it's just that their notion of flourishing tends to be at odds with the aelves, humans and duardin that want laws and stability.
However, the current lore sometimes falls into the trap of downplaying this coherent shared interest in favour of making Destruction the 'worships Gorkamorka' category. IMO, making Silent People insect-aligned humans that aren't in thrall to Gorkamorka would go a long way towards improving GA Destruction.
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7 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:
Exactly!! I'm thinking instead of Mr Olympia bodybuilder bodies such as Khorne, we get Strong Man competition bodies. Huge mounds of muscle with bellies!!
Hell yeah! Not every ogor is Eddie Hall, some are like Hafthor Bjornsson.
As for the Belakor teaser, it's not much, but the fact he's leading a force of Bloodletters and Horrors makes me think they're leaning into the Legion of Chaos Ascendant (all the chaos daemons together). Hope he's still playable in Slaves to Darkness though!
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8 minutes ago, Jymmy said:
I’m glad he is not an ogor, as the proportions didn’t feel right (the head and the hands would have been too small in proportion to the rest of the body in that case)
That's true, the proportions were very different to the standard ogor glutton. That said, the proportions of the ulfenkarn ogor hero are bit different too (classic ogors have larger hands and heads). Since ogors are one of the two factions I "main", I'm interested in how AoS is gonna do new models. I think the majority of the Mawtribe range holds up splendidly, if they wanna change the proportions then fine. What I hope they don't move away from is gutplates.
Gutplates are the one constant in an army where every day is casual friday. That's turned up to 11 with Maneaters, which explore the idea that ogors travel around and enthusiastically embrace cultures into their own identity. That's why I was excited about a Vampire ogor, it was the natural AoSification of the maneater archetype. But every maneater still had a gutplate, the reminder of the society they came from. So while the proportions were off he does seem to have a gutplate whereas none of the Cursed City ogors, dead or alive, do.
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4 OGORS?
3 OF THEM UNDEAD?
YESSSSSSSS
TBH the zombie ogors, while great models, depart from the ogor aesthetic in ways I don't love. I like how pliable ogors are in adopting different cultures but that the importance of gutplates was a constant. They're also a little lanky, but then maybe death is slimming. Gratified the vampire ogor appears to have a gutplate, that may have been the most delightful surprise of the reveal. Hope there's a Gnoblar Nighthaunt supplement.
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bro you're gonna set the crow on fire
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I guess it's encouraging that basically everything from the first Hedonites Battletome has been rebalanced and improved. I hope that when Slaanesh gets its third book (hopefully not soon, just coz I'm disappointed doesn't mean I want GW to start dropping three books in three years), there will be a similar improvement to the mortal half. In that vein, I've been thinking about a way to spend depravity aside from summoning, basically inspired by the Bloodtithe table for Khorne,
Here's an example of such a system. I'm not a game designer so I'm sure this isn't up to the standards of real rules writers, just ideas for some thematic and tactically satisfying abilities.
SpoilerMoods of Depravity
As cries of pain and pleasure fill the air, Slaanesh's hosts are often overcome waves of emotion. Whether this is a boon from their god or simply the energy of a raucous crowd, it is hard to say.
At the start of the hero phase, you can use 1 or more Depravity points to receive 1 Mood from table below. The effect lasts until the start of the next hero phase. You can only receive a reward if you have enough Depravity points to pay its cost. If you choose a reward, after resolving its effects your Depravity total is reset to zero.
1 PT. Bliss of Submission
The song of Slaanesh soothes manic Hedonites into compliance.
You receive 1 command point.
2 PTS. Regal Contempt
Exasperated by cloying sycophants, Hedonite champions shy from the limelight.
Subtract 1 from hit rolls for shooting attacks that target friendly SLAANESH HEROES that are not MONSTERS. You cannot use command abilities this hero phase.
3 PTS. Roiling Insecurity
Slaanesh's heroes shout desperate orders as the fear of failure sinks in.
Extend the range of command abilities used or spells cast by friendly SLAANESH HEROES by an additional 6". If a friendly SLAANESH HERO benefits from Roiling Insecurity they cannot be chosen to pile in and fight until the end of the combat phase.
4 PTS. Fickle Fancy
Frustrated devotees of pleasure abandon their stations in search of more interesting enemies to fight.
D3 friendly SLAANESH units can retreat and charge. If a unit affected by Fickle Fancy rolls a charge number greater than their leadership characteristic, they cannot be selected as the target of a command ability until the next hero phase.
5 PTS. Laceration Lust
Slaanesh's followers slice the flesh of their enemies with glee, adding a few bites and scratches for good measure.
Select one weapon profile of a friendly SLAANESH unit and improve its rend characteristic by 1. At the end of the combat phase, the unit you selected suffers D3 mortal wounds.
6 PTS. Manic Paroxysm
Hedonites are seized by a joyous frenzy that threatens to tear their bodies apart.
D3 friendly SLAANESH units can be selected to pile in and fight at the start of the next combat phase. They cannot fight again in that phase unless an ability or spell allows them to fight more than once. At the end of the combat phase, roll a D6. On a 4+, choose one unit that benefited from Manic Paroxysm and it suffers D6 mortal wounds. On a 1, 2 or 3, your opponent chooses which unit that benefited from Manic Paroxysm suffers D6 mortal wounds.
Notes
- I made it last a single hero phase like with bloodtithe, but the nature of the abilities might be more suited to last until YOUR next hero phase, idk.
- Bliss of Submission is an ability lifted directly from the Khorne bloodtithe
- Regal Contempt would basically be a way of keeping your little support heroes safe from shooting in the early turns, but the lack of command abilities is too much of a drawback to use in later ones. Non-monsters because not everything in the book needs to benefit Keepers.
- Roiling Insecurity is another boost to those small hero spells and command abilities. The drawback is probably lesser.
- Fickle fancy is a thematic run and charge which is probably better on Daemons due to the bravery thing. It'd be very good but risky on Slickblades, since they only have bravery 6 and you might want the LoP ability on them.
- Laceration lust. Extra rend is really good so it might be too powerful, the mortal wounds are an attempt at balancing that (as is the fact it only works on one weapon profile).
- Manic Paroxysm, Okay, I know the activation wars thing is something GW is stamping down on. Thing is, if there's one army that SHOULD be able to fight first it's Slaanesh. And this one at least comes with risks, the opponent might be able to assign D6 mortal wounds to the unit(s) affected. D6 might be too much but these are just ideas.
I tried to make the abilities thematic by including a downside, starting at debuffs to hero abilities and ending with mortal wounds. In terms of depravity cost, I started from the Khorne system of 1 - [god number], but it's hard to say how that would immediately fit into the existing balancing of depravity summoning. Either way, the rewards should be a little cheaper than summoned units. Extra rend is nice but it's not 300 points of Daemonettes nice.
Like the Bloodtithe, I went with the keyword SLAANESH rather than HEDONITE. Slaves to Darkness or Beasts of Chaos units absolutely deserve to benefit from SOMETHING in the allegiance. I also took
I know Khorne players dislike the fact you lose excess Bloodtithe when you select an ability. Perhaps that would also be an unfun limitation for Slaanesh's table, but I feel like Depravity point generation is somewhat easier than Bloodtithe generation (damaging vs destroying units). Anyway, this system means you're really choosing between summoning or using the table.
While there are some costing issues with the new mortal Slaanesh units, Depravity abilities would be something I'm even more excited to see.
I don't know how likely it is since only Khorne has this system while Tzeentch and Nurgle don't, but then the latter two also get some additional mechanics (Nurgle's cycle, Tzeetnch's destiny dice and agendas). Slaanesh's allegiance is comparatively dull. Not terrible, just... austere. Locus and Euphoric Killers are good but they're passive abilities. Depravity points are the part of the allegiance you actually play for, the thing that the three hosts change up. I just want an option to not play Slaanesh as a summoning army (which means running S2D for now but hey, one day).
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3 minutes ago, Feii said:
on the same boat, when the rules were sppoiled I went "well, let us wait 2 years for another battletome/AoS 3 supplements/WD articles with new rules and mechanics because this is one of the most boring and uninspiring army ruleset/datasheats release in the AoS for a new army maybe ever. (and for S tier level of sculpts)
Look on the bright side, Beasts of Chaos are due a new book and the Slaangor warscroll is so disappointing they HAVE to redo it right haha riiiight?
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AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion
in Hedonites of Slaanesh
Posted
Question: do coalition units benefit from subfaction rules? Obviously not the Hedonites keyword-locked ones, but, say, if Godseekers can reroll charges, would a coalition Varanguard unit benefit from this?
This note states that "coalition units can be given one of your army's enhancements". Well, the Slaanesh enhancements are all subfaction locked, which means you wouldn't be able to, say, give a Slaanesh Chaos Sorcerer an artifact unless they counted as being part of the Invaders/Pretenders/Godseekers sub-faction.
But it also says only Hedonites units gain the subfaction keyword here:
So which is it? Does this need an FAQ or am I missing something?