Rock Lobster

Please 'fane' interest in my latest hobby project - finally ready for battle

I only split it up into 2 to try and convey the point to you since there is disagreement, your using the same sentence just to draw a different conclusion but without the justification I put in as to why my interpretation works. Result and trigger = ‘roll a dice for each enemy unit that is within 1” of a model from this unit after the model from this unit finishes a charge move’. It references the model charging as the trigger and then the result is roll a dice for every unit within 1" of a model from this unit, of which all 3 are models from this unit. Full unit clarification: Do this each time you move a model as part of the charge phase (there was no basis for your second part here) You are ignoring the result stated in the sentence and attributing it to one model where that is not what is written. I wrote an alternative for you to give you the result you are looking for, but the main rule is unfortunately not it. I am not going to be responding further to this at this point, not because I dont like a good joust or to be rude, but unfortunately I need to get back to work, so Ill let you have the closing word.

I like that! Especially since they have basically no wounds and save so the end result regardless of how you play it is 3 wrecked chariots if they hit anything that can fight.

I think my last reply to CB42 will really help clear this up. Its not that it is somewhere in between the 2, it is not at all the former that it is within 1" of the model that has charged. It is explicitly within 1" of a model from the unit - I think its pretty clear. If it is not Their intent, they can FAQ the language, but it is the rule as is written.

I would agree with you if the rule was written differently, it is structured unfortunately as it is for a different affect. I would agree with you if it just said 'Each time a model from this unit finishes a charge move, roll a dice for each enemy unit that is within 1" of the model.' That would be your interpretation written in rule form. The reality is though that they explicitly state that you Result = 'roll a dice for each enemy unit that is within 1" of a model from this unit' (surely no disagreement on this one) Trigger = 'after the model from this unit finishes a charge move'. And as we know from the next sentence you move each charger separately and total up the mortal wounds.

Could you elaborate on your point of disagreement, I'll be honest I'm not trying to be nitpicky, I just cant see where the disconnect is.

As stated you dont need to interpret or ignore the later part of the sentence at all per my post above. Surely you would agree it explicitly states that you 'roll a dice for each enemy unit that is within 1" of a model from this unit" right? Every model in the unit is a model in the unit - there is no way around that. I completely agree with you that this is done after the model you are moving finishes a charge move per the 2nd half. Per units of multiples you move each model and calculate all the mortal wounds inflicted after each move - completely consistent with that entire sentence. I think you are trying to tie things together that dont exist, dark and I are simply reading the rule as it is written.

I dont think it changes anything, you can bold that too if you like. It explicitly states that you have to roll a dice for each enemy unit that is within 1" of a model from this unit after the model from this unit finishes a charge move. So you dont get a choice in the matter, it has to affect every unit within an inch of any model in this unit. The use of 'the' refers to the model being moved and indicates it is per model being moved and explicitly reinforced by the next section on multiple models in a unit where each is moved and mortal wounds are inflicted after each move. I'm afraid that is correct.

The method stated above is correct rules as written. There is no getting around the fact that you move each chariot individually and each time a chariot moves you add up the mortal wounds and they affect every unit within 1” of a model from this unit. Playing it any other way would be not playing the rules as written.

Agreed you can hit multiple units up to 3 times (for the 3 chariots - if only you could take them in 6's) regardless of the location of the other chariots as long as the 1st makes it in. You can do some amusing things with this if you choose. Since you dont have to maintain cohenrency, it just kills off a portion of your unit to do so, and you only need to get 1 model within 1/2" (the first). So you can do silly things like charge as many units as humanly possible in a suicide run for the whole unit, spread them out across you opponents army and inflict mortal wounds on lots of unit lots of times. If any chariots survive combat at the end of the turn 1 chariot will be left as the unit is split out of cohenrency. Single chariot sacrifice per unit. Lets say you have 3 units of 3 chariots, and a limited frontage, you wan to do some damage to the always strike first grissle gore monster but only have space for 3 charriots and up to 9 mortal wounds aint going to cut it from 1 of those units. No worries, stick one charriot from each unit in there first and send the other 2 from each unit in coherency to fight something else. Inflict up to 27 mortal wounds (averaging 14-16) and then fight with that 1 model from each unit to finish it off. If you take casualties, take off the ones in combat with the monster first since you will lose them anyway at the end of the turn - or if the monster is down to 1-2 wounds you may want to keep it around to chip off the remaining wounds. Point for point 360 points for killing another model seems like a narrowly good trade, but actually the value of some character is far above their points and they are hard to deal with otherwise.

I wish I had thought of Kairos before the book, the idea of getting an auto 6 on the exalted keepers ability to kill nagash would have been excelent.

While this is true you cant hit more than 1 unit more times than the number of charriots, @Darkfine is correct in the sense you can hit multiple units multiple times even if the subsequent charriots are no where near the target hit, but the same unit max hits is 1 hit per seeker charriot. The precise wording is: Roll a dice for each enemy unit that is within 1" of a model from this unit after the model from this unit finishes a charge move. On a 2+ that enemy unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. If this unit has more than 1 model, roll to determine if mortal wounds are inflicted after each model completes its charge move, but do not allocate the mortal wounds until after all models from this unit have moved. So lets see how these interact. I have a unit of 3 seekers I put into a unit of clanrats first. Per the 2nd bold "If this unit has more than 1 model, roll to determine if mortal wounds are inflicted after each model completes its charge move" so I move them 1 at a time to charge as normal. The first 1 goes in and you roll the 2+ to inflict D3 mortal wounds and keep a record of wounds inflicted. The 2nd moves in and that clanrat unit is still within 1" of a model from the unit (2 in this case - but doesn't matter) then you roll another 2+. 3rd charriot moves in and you roll another 2+ on that unit - so max 9 mortal wounds on that unit. Not great for a single unit but check this out. Turn the charriot bases sideways and space an inch apart for maximum surface area. This time the first chariot hits 3 units, 2 units of clanrats and a weapons team nestled between them. Roll a 2+ for each of the 3 units. The 2nd chariot goes in, and can only hit a single unit of clanrats - it matters not, 3 units are still within 1" of your unit so roll a 2+ again for each. The 3rd chariot does the same on the other unit of clanrats and all 3 are hit again with 2+. Potential damage from the charge is now up to 27 mortal wounds across the 3 units. In short seeker charriots are very good against MSU, You should spread out as much as you can and try and tag multiple units, for max effect the first charriot should go into a happy place where it contacts as many enemy units as possible. After that the remaining charriots can go anywhere and you will still continue to rack up wounds. Most effectively used against things like multiple skink screens or small heroes within 12" of one another.

I have to agree with Malakree, I would give it 0-1% chance. However this is not a bad thing. The gloomspite gits waited and got a whole load of new kits, flesh eaters got a quick turnaround on their book and only on new model with the release. I would prefer a release next year with a couple of new units to give the army more fleixbility. Ironjawz are a very popular range and GW will know they can stick a couple of new units in one of those battle boxes with another faction ahead of the book release and sell a ton. Small chance, but I would not rule out that battle box being released Christmas this year with a book next year if they do have models underway. Perhaps Ironjawz and the light elves would be cool in a set :D.

They are the best answer we have to eels. We have a limited toolset which is the weakness of the army. Where we think that Brutes may not be able to overcome eels, ardboys are in an even worse position. 10 ardboys with the great weapons and +2 attacks vs the killy eels is 9 wounds or 2 dead eels. The same on 5 brutes is 16 wounds or 4 dead eels. It is a really poor matchup for ironjawz. The eels usually get the charge, and if they do you lose whether you took ardboyz or Brutes, however if you get a double turn or he underestimates your movement plus ironfist plus cogs (as has happened for me) it is possible to get the charge. The eels are much better on the charge so if you get a chance to double move a maw krusha and pin units in place at the very end of a line it is worthwhile and you can catchup with your units hopefully before he dies. If you are going 2nd then the eels have uncomfortable decisions to make since although they have enormous movement, a 6 on the ironfist roll and a cogs spell and suddenly you are projecting an average move and charge distance with your brutes of 22" if you have those tools. Even if you dont have those tools a lucky double move can pin a unit in place. This forces the deepkin player to choose to either take a chance and move their units closer to the ironjawz and risk the low chance of shenanigans with lucky allegiance and battalion rolls, or backup and take the chance of a charge failing, even with their reroll which will put them in a bad spot. Either way the chances of a good result are low unfortunately, it requires either bad luck on their part or good luck on your part to really be in the fight and even then you can still easily lose. Brutes are the weapon of opportunity here, if the good fortune does come, they are the unit that can really hurt the eels and capitalize on it.

I have found the Brute verses ardboyz tradeoff to be a little false in my past games and it is better to have a mix. Ardboyz are on paper better units when you look at damage they can take and multiple waaagh against many enemies, but for certain pretty frequent occurances you are better with the Brutes. Brutes are better against anything with 4 wounds or more, great against eels (which are common in any deepkin build), fiends of slaanesh (when the book comes out you will see more) and enemy monsters or characters they can take a reliable bite out of or assassinate. I frequently use my 5 man Brute units to pick off key characters, especially in scenarios where those character score. The other situation which you see a lot of is with any negative modifiers to hit. The basic brutes having +1 to hit over the ardboyz and the brute smasha on the boss auto hitting (as long as you have enough attacks to land the claw (+2 minimum) helps rack up the damage. Against a unit of grots and netters with 4 additional attacks, 10 ardboyz with great weapons hit only 20 times and cause an average of 11 casualties. The 5 Brutes will average 18 wounds in the same situation. Finally the Brutes clear armour better thanks purely to the Brute smasher. This really just helps with the character killing as the rest of the unit is no better off. +4 attacks on the unit though (average for 3 command points spent and prophet of the waaagh) will net you 4 wounds at rend -2 and D3 damage which can even cause sequitors some trouble. A solid core of a list for 1000 of your points with the rest to taste would be 2 x 20 ardboyz and 2 x 5 Brutes which gives you the flexibility to cover both these types of options. If you are in an eel heavy environment you might double up the brutes and halve the ardboyz for more choppy against high would models, or even a mix of the 2 for just over 1k points with 20 ardboyz, 10 ardboyz, 10 brutes, 5 brutes.

I dont think you need to go back to the drawing board, I think you nailed it here almost. Drop 1 fungoid for a command point and bump 2 units of ardboyz up to brutes, or drop 1 fungoing, downgrade 1 unit of ardboyz to gore gruntas and get 2 command points and you are all legal and have both the front loaded waaagh and the endless waaagh in the list.

Haha I was about to correct you to 4.33333 recurring and then realized that you need to factor in a 1/3 chance each of the additional CP may generate additional CP in a lucky streak. You are right, sticking 2 of those guys for 180 points is 4.5 roughly CP after 3 turns. of 4.5 x 50points = 225 points average value if they stay alive for 3 turns and do nothing else. If you combine that with the Prophet of the Waaagh that means those 180 points results in an average over your games of +6 attacks to all units or 2 per turn average. You would pay 180 points for something that did nothing else and granted your army an average 2 attacks per turn on every weapon in every unit.

if you are going wierdfist or using a wierdnob and hoping to get off foot of gork go rogue idol. If they allow the realm spells in your area and you have a few wizards, go rogue idol. If you are looking for something to smash into stuff and for amusing things to occur, go bonegrinder. If I were making an ally recommendation from scratch (and granted you didn't for it) I would probably say Troggath hag is a great choice. Slightly cheaper, highly resilient, strong if short ranged shooting attack and a wizard with an amazing spell. That spell on her completely changes a combat. Also because she is a wizard and resilient she is great for all the scenarios where only a wizard or artifact holder can sit on an objective. Another classic ally choice would be the fungoid cave shaman. If you are in the realms for magic, 2 of these for 180 points will generate 3 CP on average by the end of turn 3, a value of 150 points meaning you basically got 2 spell casters for 30 points. If you have the aetherquartz broach then those extra CP will result in a 4th CP meaning your 180 points of spell casters generate 200 points of CP by the end of turn 3. With this little guy it is possible to forgo battalions entirely if you are looking at stacking Waaagh, drop your 300 points of Bloodtoofs for 360 points of 4 wizards and with your aetherquartz broach you will waagh 4 times a turn every turn of the game and have a lot of unbind and casting attempts too.

Another note on the one drop battalion and its usefulness. Remember that if you have a 1 drop battalion it doesn't mean you need to drop it all at once. If your opponent has 8 drops for example you could still drop 6 units down to see their positioning and for your 7th drop put down the rest of the battalion to give you 2nd turn without being outdeployed.

I agree, some really solid lists here. The banner boss is potentially interesting as an option if you are looking to drop the mawkrusha entirely since the short range of the megabosses command ability makes it mostly unusable - although I can't think why you would drop the krusha as he is really great. This would be a terrible list, but another flavor for anyone crazy enough to try it. You can get the warboss for his baby waaagh and reroll 1s to wound, 3 warchanters and 3 x 30 man units of ardboyz and a battalion plus 1-2 command points likely. Still use the aetherquarz broach but take brutish cunning on one of the warchanters for that 1 in 3 chance to throw a unit of 30 ardboyz forward to disrupt an enemy charge phase, also probably a boss stikka for bravery help. The warboss is an absolute liability at 6 wounds and 4+, you are not totally knackered if he goes down (especially if you put prophet of the waaagh instead on a warchanter but I think if you are going for a silly list like this, go all in with silly and go for the random pontentially hilarious charge move which can disrupt your opponents plans. Imagine the look on someones face when their whole army is lined up to charge you, you get the 5+ and use 1 block of boys to charge in and pin down the army in an irritating line that doesn't let them maximize combatants, removes all charge bonuses and when one of their units hits you, you spread attacks all the way down the line. The sacrifice of much of that unit could save a battle - so random and silly but amusing nonetheless. Also killing 180 wounds with a 4+ save is soul destroying. Also soul destroying to paint

The like here is for lists 1 and 3. 1 is an interesting take on a very different ironjawz list. It has the same weakness as the Ardfist in that the wierdnob dies and its curtains for the whole battalions benefit, but slightly more risky as you can need line of site so have to be out there and it requires your units to group together. I dont think it is in the same bracket as the other lists to be honest as it is so situational and against a list like nagash or tzeetch they will dispell you all day unless you are well positioned to outrange their dispell and lucky on your wierdfist rolls, but I like that it punches hard still with the 2 maw krushas so wins my vote for top wierdfist so far. For the ardboyz list I am torn between yours and @Andrew G , both solid lists. I think I might like yours better though as the wound count is insane and that is a lot of scoring heroes, albeit with less potential for waaagh. It also wins the award for worst list to model and paint!

If you like the list dont forget to give it a like otherwise I wont be able to track favorites. I think you might be onto something in the daubing. I am biased towards the reflecting of mortal wounds from the mirrored cuirass after I kept my mawkrusha alive and killed durthu in a tournament in his final turn (I was done) when both durthu and my Maw krusha were down to 2 wounds each and he hit me with 2 mortals for the magic double 6. It turned a 14-6 win into a 20-0 owing to my position on the objective and forever now has earned its place. I like the creativity of the list and it could suprise people, with zarbags gang there the charge stopping of the fanatic is a big sell to me. However I think the list feels a little light on something extra with less speed, bodies and hitting power than previous lists. Maybe cogs would be a great compliment to Zarbag and would make this a very fast list, but it feels like unless you could find 50 points for the extra command point from somewhere...

I put a vote in for list 1 here. List 2 is too easily crippled by the loss of the warchanter I feel. List 3 is very strong, but I prefer my own which is really similar out of personal preference that I like the 2 medium units verses the 1 large unit for flexibility and maximizing attacks in 2 places.

No sorry, I just meant repeat them again here so they are easily accessible in quick succession rather than people digging back through. When they are collated and people have said which they like I will post them all in a new thread as a resource with credit to the writer of each list.

Post em up and let the green people vote, it will be a great resource for other players.