Keldaur
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Posts posted by Keldaur
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5 hours ago, Kharneth said:
When something gives a unit +1 to hit or to wound does this negate the ability to reroll 1s? For example, Blood Warriors with Goreaxes blessed with Killing Frenzy. When they roll a 1 can they reroll it or does it count as a 2?
Rerolls happen before modifiers. If you have a rule that allows you to reroll ones:
If you roll a 1 you reroll it.
Now you apply the modifier.
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4 minutes ago, Alexonian said:
they do really like to use "soon" I don't think I'm on same page as Gw what soon is though
We are too used to blizzard's soon.
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4 hours ago, Ahn-ket said:
You can't buff up SH mortals because it's an unmodified 6 to do mortals
Rerolls.
+1 attack is terrible ineficient tho (1/6 MW per model buffed).
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Myrnmourn can't fill the niche spirit hosts do, which is dealing MWs. Buffed up myrnmourns can deal more damage to some targets (mostly against someone without unmodifiable and no rerolls), but they also die to a weak breeze.
Myrnmourns per 100 points
vs 3+ unmodifiable reroll 1's -----> 0.7 wounds
vs 3+ --- > 2,22 wounds
vs 2+ rerolling 1's --- > 1.4 wounds
vs 2+ ---- > 1.6 wounds
vs 1+ rerollin 1's --- > 0.8 wounds
Spirit hosts per 100 points
vs 3+ unmodifiable reroll 1's ----> 2.5 wounds
vs 3+ --- > 2.9 wounds
vs 2+ --- > 2.7 wounds
vs 2+ rerolling 1's -- > 2.6 wounds
vs 1+s rerolling 1's --- > 2.5 wounds
There is nothing more optimal in Nighthaunt's army against high armor shenanigans than Spirit hosts. Myrnmourn will never outperform spirit hosts vs 1+ saves (specially rerolling ones). Buffed up with +1 to attacks they will perform close to SH against 2+ reroll 1's or 2+. And against 3+ they will perform better. But we could also buff spirit hosts to increase their MW's chance to a 27% (so instead of 2.5 wounds, it would be 4.04) once per battle.
If you just want damage potential against the targets where Myrnmourns outperform SH, grimghast reapers or bladegheists (and more than likely harridans) will vastly outperform myrnmourn banshees, and they will have more bodies.
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20 minutes ago, Hannibal said:
Hi all,
let´s say I´d start with Nighthaunt. Therefore I like to ask some questions:
1. Is Lady Olynder AND Kurdoss Valentian a good start? I absolutely love these models, therefore I´d like to go with them. If I had to decide between them, I´d eventually choose Kurdoss over Olynder, when it comes down to models.
2. What units do Olynder and Kurdoss like to see in your army? Any good synergies?
3. Basically I like Kurdoss, Olynder, Spirit Hosts, Grimghast Reapers, any kind of Banshees and Dreadblade Harrows. Is it possible to build a good army around these models?
4. Are there any "must haves" when it comes down to Nighthaunt?
1 - Depends, if you are starting out and playing 1k games, no, they are not.
2 - Grimghast reapers, Spirit hosts, Chainrasps
3 - Yes.
4 - I would say the chronomatic cogs and reikenor to reliably cast them are a must. And obviously grim ghast reapers. They are ridiculous with cogs + fell wind pendant.
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1 hour ago, Aezeal said:
My wyld guess would be that he wanted to play Alarielle and 9 hunters.
You can do that with dreadwood.
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I prefer to have them with heads. Otherwise, the arms would look weird IMO.
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4 hours ago, Greasygeek said:
Maybe I just don’t get it but can anyone find any reason to include the Shyish Reaper instead of the Aethervoid Penduloum? Both cost 40pt and are somewhat similar in there way of making damage and move, but the Reaper is harder to cast and much weaker. Am I missing something here or does the Shyish Reaper need a rewrite or update or something?
The reaper can also change direction, the pendulum cannot. But it also depends a lot on the army you are facing. You need to get 7 models with an armor save of "4+" models to be even statistically speaking. You need 10.5 models for 5+. But it can still be relevant later on since it can change direction, while the pendulum many times is a one-time thing if you don't have the magic to cast it each turn.
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It depends, spectral lure, you don't get to choose what you do.
If the unit is wounded you have to heal it.
If the unit doesn't have wounds allocated, then you ressurrect, and it works as @Neck-Romantic stated, you do ress models with full wounds, or you don't.
Spirit torment allows you to choose, but it works exactly like spectral lure when it comes to ressurrection.
That's why if you are playing spirit hosts/hexwraiths you want return models slain effects such as Olynder, Rule of the Spirit hosts or the Black coach.
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On 8/14/2018 at 3:24 PM, ianob said:
Whoops
All I’ll say then is that basing unit evaluations on a once per game artifacts with an opportunity cost of potentially better artifacts is not ideal listbuilding!
I understand where you are coming from, but that's poorly worded, ideal listbuilding does not exist.
Better artifacts rely on the list itself, not in the artifact on its own. You are not getting ethereal amulet just because its good, you get it because your list have a big threat that can take advantadge of it. Pendant of fell wind is probably the only artifact that is better no matter what kind of list you make for nighthaunt (and still i am not sure it would apply always). Midnight tome is a solid artifact, but you use it to fill a gap in your list, otherwise you don't. Harvest moon allows you to do some very good and decisive plays when you are playing spirit hosts which outweights heavilly whatever you could get with a different artifact through the game (and that's what you should compute to see if it's optimal or not, not just if it's an once per game or not).
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16 minutes ago, ianob said:
What are we talking about that's rerolling all misses?
The post you answered specifically stated the lantern that gives you rerolls once per battle.
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On 8/12/2018 at 7:02 PM, ianob said:
6 hosts with a Lantern is 7 mortals and 3.5 rend 0 hits on average. Let’s not get hyperbolic now
Average 10MW 10Hits.
36 = 6MW 6Hits (12)
36-12 = 24 = 4MW 4Hits
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15 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:
And 6 hosts is 36 attacks with rerolls.. most likely more than only 7 MW's.
6's are a russian roulette. I have played plenty with the harvest moon and 3x6 units of spirit hosts, and get only 2-3 MWs even with the rerolls. Not really consistent, but you can also get a crazy amount of MWs, but those turns when you only kill 1 chainrasps really make you want to throw the spirit hosts away.
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The no retreat is the most useful part of that spell to be honest.
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22 hours ago, Nevar said:
That sounds extremely overcosted even for GW. Maybe $40 for 20. Although, Daughters of Khaine's witches are still $50 for 10 so...
But these are easy to build, witches are a multicomponente and multiunit. If it is confirmed that ten costs 40$ it would be horribly overpriced.
The black coach is normal, that thing uses the stardrake's base, and it's still much larger than the base itself.
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On 7/21/2018 at 7:21 PM, Garxia said:
I have 30 spare point on my list, which Endless Spell would be better? Soulsnare Shackles or Quicksilver Swords?
Shackles. No contest.
About the harrows, i would say no. You are already pretty strechted thin on wounds and you are using a battallion to improve them.
What i am missing are ways to improve your spirit torment buff coverage for those bladegheists.
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33 minutes ago, Congratz said:
Have you guys had any success in 1k and 1,5k games? if so can i see your lists
I have yet to lose a game with them, but sadly since my nighthaunt haven't arrived yet (probably today!) i have been playing soul wars + models lent by a friend, or proxys. Good thing is that it has allowed me to get a hang of the nighthaunt special rules before i decided what to buy :p. If you are curious:
Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Leaders
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
- Artefact: Midnight Tome
Spirit Torment (120)
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Lord Executioner (80)
Battleline
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
Units
4 x Glaivewraith Stalkers (60)
Endless Spells
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)
Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 63
Initially went for midnight tome, then switched to lens of refraction, then switched back to midnight tome. Knight of shrouds as a wizard is an excelent objective grabber in some missions. You can replace him with Reikenor if you wish (and remove geminids), and that would allow you to get lens of refraction instead of the tome. You lose the command ability, but to be completely honest, with this list i had been using it 80% of the time for guaranteed 6"run rolls because i am very liberal about retreating from combat to reform the chainrasp horde to screen and guarantee objectives. Chainrasps have very good damage when properly buffed and are very durable. Spirit hosts do what spirit hosts do, whiff their MWs in the charge, but the enemy gets in combat with them forever, and eventually you get that roll that destroys the enemy unit while you are reviving 1d3 in your hero phase plus healing 1d3 wounds per bravery phase with the spirit torment (i never get the guardian of souls spell off...)
Nighthaunt heroes are specially good in combat thanks to the new pile in rules + flying, it allows you to stop the enemy from getting the most damage he can unto them, and they are very durable (outside of mortal wounds obviously). But as i said, i retreat a freaking lot to negate damage in opponent's turn, not sure if it has been a case of the list or outplaying my opponents. The list i am going to try now since in August we have a 1250 event is this:
Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Leaders
Lord Executioner (80)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind
Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Lifestealer
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Artefact: Lens of Refraction
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Battleline
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)
Battalions
Execution Horde (100)
Endless Spells
Prismatic Palisade (30)
Total: 1250 / 1250
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 71
This one is for the lols mostly. I have no hope in dealing with hordes in objective missions where you have to contest them in no man's territory. The other option is to change some spirit hosts, lord executioner and battallion for a 360 grimghast reaper unit (which would be more optimal to have ways to deal with hordes), but i want to bring it all painted ?
Some may wonder why execution horde when it's a terrible battallion. It certainly is, but since the list is built that way, i see it as 100 points for pendant of fell wind + 1 CP, plus a little more durable lord executioner.
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16 hours ago, SleeperAgent said:
Not fighting for all of them. Just controlling the ones I need, Spirit Hosts spit out mortal wounds and black coach brings back d3 slain models per turn for each unit within 12".
The spirit hosts are too small. You are not going to take a real advantadge of the 1d3 slain models that come back from powered black coachs, which should be the point of the list you are doing. Also it is very low in the attack saturation to properly deal with hordes so you get to score against them (otherwise you will just be pillowfighting around objectives while never gaining its control).
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3 hours ago, Rahr said:
not much have 2 up anymore after m-shield got rule out so treelords would be at a 5 up so not that crasy anymore and they reroll 1 12 buff banshees should be able to deal with that f you charge i took 15 wound on a war mammoth in one turn with 8 banshees buff up to 3 attack pr model
You didn't understand me. People talked about treelord and Stardrake. Even withouth the m-shield both have ways to get to 2+ (1+ in stardrake's case), reroll ones or get the ethereal amulet ( 3+ save unmodifiable) rerolling ones. A -2 rend is insuficient to realibily wound those models, hence why you need mortal wounds to efficiently deal with them.
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1 hour ago, GeneralZero said:
well, I meant "compared to", I'd better have said "less optimum" maybe.
I am taking that for granted, they are not worse than grimghast reapers...
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16 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:
but we have the reapers, which are better and battleline. The hordes are week and the 20 in the box may be enough...
Chainrasps aren't anywhere close to weak by any metric you could use.
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1 hour ago, Rahr said:
we got lots of rend 2 models so dont see it as that big a problem and many ways to deal mortal wound as well so think we should be fine
Rend 2 are characters except the banshees. You don't want most of your characters facetanking those things. And it's also not that good against 2+ rerollin ones, not to speak about those with rerolling 1s and ethereal amulet.
I am not going anywhere withouth atleast one unit of spirit hosts and ruler of the spirit hosts. Harvest moon can help with that 9 spirit hosts could deal a lot of mortal wounds on a given turn , but we are artifact starved to be honest (lens, windfell, midnight tome, etc). Olynder can deal a sizeable amount of MWs in a given hero phase too.
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4 hours ago, IndigoGirls said:
What do folks think of ethereal amulet on TLA? 3+, ignore rend (can't think of a situation where he can get +1 to save anymore), re-rolling 1s. Seems like a better version of gnarled warrior.
Even better, it allows you to go durthu or a second TLA with 2+ and gnarled warrior.
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3 minutes ago, Mpire said:
What battalions would you recommend? I don’t know what room I’ve got to fit them in there to be honest.
You don't fit battallions, you build around them.
Gnarlroot and Dreadwood are the most popular ones.
AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
I have a question, sry because i don't remember it. Natural 1s are failures, or natural 1s are considered as failures and 1s after modifiers?