newsun
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Posts posted by newsun
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6 minutes ago, IRifter said:
Hey I got a question guys. Can you cast the same lore of change/fate spells multiple times per turn?
Because one of the spells specifically stated that you can't do it again. The rule also says all wizards can know the same spell.
Base rules state you cannot, so the spell needs to specifically allow it to work.
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1 hour ago, Drib said:
"[...] On a roll of 1, the unit is wiped out!" -Battletome p.83
It does not specifically say that ever model is slain.
Do you see where "wiped out" is specifically explained?
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22 hours ago, Lughaidh said:
My local group usually plays either 1250 or 2000. How does this look for a 1160/1250 list? Yes, I also have the required Blue & Brimstone Horrors for summoning.
I think it's better to have 6 enlightened than the battalion and myself I'd go for 15 chaos warriors instead of the Tzaangors and make it 9 enlightened.
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3 hours ago, Kharneth said:
I'm having issues with playing a magic heavy summoning list. Lord of Change w/ Gryph charm & bolt of tzeentch; Gaunt Summoner w/ arcane sacrifice and glimpse; 2x10 pink horrors w/ fold reality and mutation; aethervoid pendulum.
I'm not entirely sure how to explain my issue, but in short I don't think I know how to place my summoned units effectively. I know it depends on the mission, which is part of what makes it difficult to figure out how to do it right. These are 3 things I've done and the issues I've had with them:
- I go first and summon blue horrors on the mid-field objectives. Then my enemy charges them on his turn 1 and spends the rest of the game with multiple units within 9" of the objectives, making it difficult to reclaim them.
- I go first and summon blue horrors further away from the enemy so that he cannot get any charges off this turn, but they often find a way to do just that and then I end up with enemies right in front of my deployment zone for the entire game.
- I go second, my opponent is close to the center of the board and when I summon I can't summon more than a few inches forward.
I'm only playing 1,000 points and so I roughly have a guaranteed unit of blue horrors on my first turn and very likely a second one. Most missions either don't have objectives on turn 1 or the objectives are "off" on turn 1, so the majority of the time I don't need to be standing anywhere in particular on the first turn.
I almost always choose who goes first (I have 4 drops and haven't fought a battalion). What factors do you consider when you're choosing whether to go first or second?
Sounds to me like you are lacking a punchy unit or enough damage via spells with your list. Maybe consider changing things up a bit.
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37 minutes ago, Kharneth said:
It moves 8" and has a 1" range with a ~ 1"x2" base. You can't even deny an objective with it, the enemy can just move to a place where they won't get hit because the only unknown factor of the pendulum's movement is how far along the 8" path it'll move.
Can someone answer this, though?:
Can a player choose not to move the Pendulum? If so, does it deal damage to units within 1" or no? Also, do they block movement? I've been using them as blocking movement since it's unrealistic to place models where the endless spell model is located.
This is rather simple to logic. It can move 'up to 8"' so even if it must move, the amount moved can be so slight it's rather imperceivable.
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3 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:
Pendulum can't go backwards, check the FAQ. But yes, I find it far superior to swords and would happily take it even if I wasn't playing pinks.
L O L they keep using this word Pendulum, I don't think it means what they think it means. FFS GW is so fail at times.
If they didn't put out great models and have such an established mythos they would surely fail as a company.
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Pink or warriors for more staying power. Just drop 2-3 acolytes for one of those two units.
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1 hour ago, Reezark_SP said:
While we're on the subject of Fold Reality, is it possible to use a destiny die to avoid rolling a 1 after its cast? I am 99.999% sure the answer is no, based on what I can gather from the battletome and FAQ, but I've also heard it said that the only rolls destiny die cannot substitute is the initiative roll, and the role to see how many mortal wounds a spell deals.
No, only Kairos ability can alter that roll.
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1 hour ago, Xasto said:
I sadly do not have many blue and brimstone horrors yet, so trying to flood the board with them would be tough, if that's what killing your own pink horrors is for (if I understand this correctly)
If you are not playing blues and brims why bring horrors over acolytes, Tzaangors, or warriors?
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1 hour ago, Reezark_SP said:
What would Kairos do for this list? My understanding is that Kairos is okay at best.
Guarantees fold reality:
a. Does not wipe the unit
b. That you can pick how many are returned
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7 hours ago, Kharneth said:
My pink strategy has varied a lot based on the enemy. They're always in the center and usually the last line protecting my gaunt and LoC, but I try to put them in positions where they're a good target but where they aren't likely to be killed off. I started by using Bolt or Mutation with them and in a game I rolled 0 DD results of 1 and in another I only had a single 1. So I realized that Fold Reality is kinda necessary for these unfortunate situations. With Fold Reality, however, I was less reliant on DD and when you suggested giving the Gaunt Bolt instead of Glimpse I found that was useful.
Now, noticing that cogs isn't worth the points and without cogs Mark of the Conjurer is even worse (it might not've ever been worth it). So, if I replace cogs and take the pendulum I can effectively summon blues more effectively. With that in mind, I made a new list. I was 20 points too much for having 2 units of pinks. I can't find many better 80pt options if I removed the 3rd battleline unit, so I filled 20 points with shackles.
180 - Gaunt Summoner - Arcane Sacrifice, Glimpse the Future
380 - Lord of Change - Gryph-Feather Charm, Bolt of Tzeentch
200 - 10 Pink Horrors - Fold Reality
80 - 10 Kairic Acolytes
80 - 10 Kairic Acolytes
20 - Quicksilver Swords
20 - Soulsnare Shackles
40 - Aethervoid Pendulum
Swords (4), Pendulum (3.5), and Arcane Sacrifice (2) means that the Pink Horrors will suffer an average of 9.5 mortal wounds, which means they'll be required to use Fold Reality in order to survive their own hero phase. The reason I'm taking Glimpse the Future back is because my ability to kill Horrors is now greater than my ability to regain them, I'll need every DD of 1 I can get. @mmimzie do you think this is too extreme/excessive?
@Pandamina Those are the units I've been having success with. Without being able to fit a second unit of Pinks, paying 20 points for Swords to do avg 4 is pretty efficient. Pendulum and Geminids have the advantage of never wiffing and resulting in 0 mortal wounds, but they're more expensive.
Also, random question. Is there a reason that Glimpse the Future specifically says that it can only be attempted by a single Wizard per hero phase? Isn't this already a universal rule - that a spell can only be attempted once?
The spell is from before that was a rule.
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8 hours ago, Kharneth said:
The idea of using the sword because arcane transformation works the best with it doesn't seem to be enough justification. What I mean is, do you use other characters that benefit from Arcane Transformation? It would seem like a heavy use of a spell slot to cast that spell once to make the LoC better in combat when it's already not intended for combat.
I agree that having the LoC proficient in combat allows for more tactical options, but if you've been using arcane transformation to, I assume, increase the sword's attack by 1 have you been using this to enhance anyone else's characteristics? Perhaps +1 Move on Gaunt Summoner, +1 Attack on LoC, and +1 Attack on Ogroid (just thinking out loud if I can make proper use of this). 🤔
I'm thinking transformation is not worth the spell slot. I think it does not much matter which weapon, though lean towards beak for number of attacks.
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8 hours ago, Kharneth said:
The idea of using the sword because arcane transformation works the best with it doesn't seem to be enough justification. What I mean is, do you use other characters that benefit from Arcane Transformation? It would seem like a heavy use of a spell slot to cast that spell once to make the LoC better in combat when it's already not intended for combat.
I agree that having the LoC proficient in combat allows for more tactical options, but if you've been using arcane transformation to, I assume, increase the sword's attack by 1 have you been using this to enhance anyone else's characteristics? Perhaps +1 Move on Gaunt Summoner, +1 Attack on LoC, and +1 Attack on Ogroid (just thinking out loud if I can make proper use of this). 🤔
I'm thinking transformation is not worth the spell slot. I think it does not much matter which weapon, though lean towards beak for number of attacks.
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4 hours ago, Kharneth said:
Now you're just being ridiculous.
I'm just pointing out RAW. I disagree it's how intended. If we don't point out the unclarity how can they be cleared up?
3 hours ago, Reezark_SP said:Regarding the rule change for Tzaangor's shields but not Acolyte's shields, the rule for both units is called Arcanite Shield and since Arcanite Shield was updated in the Tzaangor's warcroll in the BoC book, the update still applies to Acolytes as they also have Arcanite Shield.
Yes I agree its very convoluted to refer to a warscroll to a different unit in a different book thats just what I've been told.
Well the Tzaangor rule only applies to units of Tzaangors so it then won't do anything for acolytes. I get where you are going with this, however RAW does not support this translation without FAQ or errata.
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50 minutes ago, Kharneth said:
I feel like the double-handed was added early and then when they changed their intention they missed the words and so they never got removed. Otherwise it's just blatantly adding confusion. It also frustrates me that the glaive sentence doesn't read "Three in every ten models in the unit can be armed with a double-handed Cursed Glaive" because it's written with plural glaives. I know what they mean, but the wording! 😅
The only counterargument I can provide is that the first step is to pick a) single blade, b) paired blades, or c) blade and shield. Then from here, 3 of them can be given a glaive as an additional weapon. So if you have all sword&board, 3 of them will also have glaives.
Regardless of the way the rules are worded, it would feel unfair to tell my opponent he can't use his shields with his glaives since the models don't even come with two handed glaives.
RAW this is how it's stated. Sword & board plus glaive for 3/10. Meaning more attacks from those three models.
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7 hours ago, mmimzie said:
Yeah you are right. Guess my mind made the tzaangor warscroll the same.
I suppose if that is the case I'd make them all shield models, as the melee damage they do is next to useless.
This is how mine are.
The rule did change for Tzaangors with the beast book, it's just acolytes are not in that book. So we may see the acolytes update still at some point.
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Where was this updated for the acolytes? I see it in the app for Tzaangors, but not for acolytes.
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36 minutes ago, mmimzie said:
yeah sure:
LoC, General, Mark of confuration, Magical Supremacy
Gaunt summoner
Ogroid thaumaturge
10xPink Horrors
10x Pink horrors
10x Pink horrors
9x enlightend
Umbral spell Portal
Balewind
Cogs
Burning Head
Pendulum
Is the current iteration. Wall yourself off with pinks and enlightend and slaughter droves of pinks on your first turn to get lots of summoning pts early on. Changes i've waffled on is droping the balewind and umbral spell portal for 10 acolytes to make my screen bigger, but honestly i use the enlightend as much as an anvil as i do as a hammer so i don't feel i need more of a screen.All eggs in one basket for combat threat seems sketchy especially since a 1 on fold could remove the unit.
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3 minutes ago, Kharneth said:
That's why I talk about the strategies and synergies that can be used in the army and how they've performed in other people's experience. That's why I don't just ask what units are good, but I try to understand what is making them good and what role they're playing in other people's armies. I do plan to proxy, but it helps to know how the army either a) is supposed to function, or b) is used effectively. Especially since Tzeentch is like a whole new world to me. The shooting and magic phase have usually been empty for my armies.
I got some really helpful advice from I think mmimzie and used it with one of the lists posted. I will definitely be proxying before buying
Yeah I saw his post came in after I started typing and submitted. I really like that Tzeentch does have some combat now though. Old school version was a wet noodle outside of magic phase and no way to leave combat.
I'm curious to see how your list plays out.
Was discussing running two units of 6 enlightened with min units of screamers to interdict on the way and maybe help proc the rerolls too.
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6 hours ago, Kharneth said:
I'm hoping for insight from other players to avoid buying units I'll end up realizing I won't use.
I really like Pink Horrors, but they're expensive and I'm not sure I can field 3 units, but I'd like to. I already have 3 enlightened and I'd like at least 3 more, but I'm worried about their usage. In 2,000 points 9 enlightened and a shaman is 600 points. That just seems like a lot of points located in a small unit, granted they are very fast and the points include a wizard. I'm also worried about Fold Reality because 1 in 6 casts is going to be fatal. I recently discovered (on here) that Kairo can help mitigate this with his one-time ability, but I don't think Kairo is a replacement for a Lord of Change since he's missing the command ability and his unique spell isn't quite as good, imo (plus I'd need to buy a spawn or two).
I'm not sure if I could fit all of the things and the advice I previously got was not to take more than 3 battleline units, so if I took 30 Pinks and 0 kairic acolytes, that might not be so good. On the other hand, maybe being able to summon 20 blue horrors on turn 1 would make-up for it.
You may want to consider proxying then. You can do a ton of research online and have the collective tell you the most efficient list, buy that stuff only to find out that does not work with your play style at all.
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4 hours ago, Kharneth said:
I'm working on a 2,000 point list to build into from my 1k list of LoC, Gaunt, 10 Pink Horrors, 2x10 Kairic Acolytes, and the Cogs & Swords endless spells. The list I've made is only 1700 points, I'm wondering how to finish it. I'm thinking of adding 10 more Pink Horrors (maybe removing 10 acolytes if 4 battleline is too much), some endless spells, and perhaps a command point.
I like the cogs and blades spells, but wanted to see what other advice people have.Allegiance: Tzeentch
Leaders
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
Lord Of Change (380)
- General
- Trait: Magical Supremacy
- Artefact: Mark of the Conjurer
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Ogroid Thaumaturge (180)
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
- 10x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
- 10x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield
Units
9 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (420)
Total: 1700 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 6
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 99
So, what should I do with the remaining 300 points? I'm thinking 200 points on horrors and the rest on endless spells.
And how do the spells look? I gave the two highest spell casts (firestorm and bolt) to the 2 best casters the LoC and Horrors. The only fate spell I wanted was Glimpse the Future so I gave it to the only guy who has to take a fate spell.
I'm considering using the Balewind Vortex on the Gaunt Summoner to increase the range of Infernal Flames, good/bad idea?
I'd pick another unit then just fill with whatever and get some games in. Then see what you are lacking and what is not doing its job and adjust from there.
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36 minutes ago, Kharneth said:
I'm not sure if I should make my 3 miniatures Skyfires or Enlightened. What makes the Enlighten the more popular option, Skyfires seem very powerful.
One of the main things is the unit cost 200 for skyfire, 140 enlightened. Combined with fold reality, they can tank some hits too and come back.
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47 minutes ago, Kharneth said:
I like the first list with the Pink Horrors and LoC, but how does mark of the conjurer help? Aren't the summoning spells removed? Also what are the acolytes for? Are they just fodder?
I like the idea of the Gaunt Summoner, LoC, Pink Horrors, and Tzaangor Enlightens. For 2k points could I field those with a Tzaangor shaman and maybe some tzaangor, too? I'm not sure what the acolytes are for, it seems like a lot of shooty units without any protection.
How necessary is the portal endless spell for DoT and is there a way to purchase endless spells individually or must I buy the malign sorceries?
Endless spells can only be bought separately via eBay, Facebook marketplace, or bartertown, etc. Or get your hobby on and model your own. Swords should be fairly easy to build with sword bits and green stuff or maybe the swirly pieces from mortis engine or the like.
The reason for the swords is to kill your own models to get blue summoning points fast.
Acolytes are cheap battleline.
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Thoughts on this list.
Allegiance: Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
Lord Of Change (380)
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
9 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (420)
Soul Grinder (260)
Mutalith Vortex Beast (200)
Quicksilver Swords (20)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 119
AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
Coming from Tzeentch, are Tzaangors any good here? Currently they seem weak in Tzeentch compared to other battleline.