DanielFM
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Posts posted by DanielFM
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1 hour ago, Bozly said:
I feel you but lets be honest when else do those abilities really get used for just about anybody? Even in 40k unless youre on a jetbike its a once per game thing maybe but you still pay for it. This at least makes it more reliable. For the one stardrake we get to use it with wait til a whole unit of hexwraiths is shimmying over our units pulling that bs.
Because normally its a 7” tax before you can even do it. Gotta be 3 away both start and finish and the model is at least an inch. They have two models spaced an inch which isnt uncommon thats 10 inches base to get one model to do the thing. Too unreliable. Jazzy shuffle in the pile in? Completely reliable.
That's not how you pile-in and you know it. That's fishing for something it's not there.
Allowed? Sure. Unsportmanlike. Obvious.
Mount Traits are a freebie. If you get the chance to use it once per game, you got your serve. Saying "I paid for it, better find a way to use it" is no excuse for bending rules like that.
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Hi, this is my take on a Soulstrike Brotherhood army. I usually run an Aquilor+Hunters+Palladors list, so for 120 points, two small units of Castigators (which are bad but a bit better with the bonus) and a Ballista I already wanted to field, I get a CP and the additional artifact.
I wanted to try Anvils with Longstrikes, I know I would get a lot more mileage from a bigger unit, but I will likely use the CA in the combat units beyond turn 1.
I think it's an interesting list, biased towards shooting but with some magic and CC punch into the mix.
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer
Leaders
Lord-Aquilor (200)
- General
- Mount Trait: Aethereal Stalker
Lord-Arcanum on Tauralon (340)
- Mount Trait: Steel Pinions
Lord-Relictor (100)
Battleline
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (120)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (120)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
Units
3 x Castigators (80)
3 x Castigators (80)
3 x Vanguard-Palladors (200)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Starstrike Javelins
5 x Evocators (200)
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (180)
War Machines
Celestar Ballista (100)
Battalions
Soulstrike Brotherhood (120)
Total: 2000 / 2000
2x Hunters, 2x Castigators and the Celestar Ballista on the sky, rest on the ground.
My questions for you are:
-What would be better for that list, Lord Relictor or Castellant? Relictor would have Blessed Weapons (to buff Palladors before they teleport, Longstrikes or Judicators) and could heal someone brought back by Cycle. Lord Castellant would bring the hound to help guard the backline from deepstrikes, and use his lantern on one of the redeploying units (Lord Aquilor, Palladors), on the LAoT before he goes forward or on the backline units. Both sound useful.
-Who should get the crappy artifact? Then, which one would you recommend? Please, if possible, no Lens. I'm already sick of seeing it in lists ?. In fact, please don't suggest Realms artifacts (I hate that they are usually clearly better than Battletome ones).
-What spell sounds better for the LAoT? Thundershock sounds potentially powerful for close-range support. Stormcaller to put pressure on lone heroes is also cool. Celestial Blades could help my few CC units, and Speed of Lightning could be useful (but for a single turn, when my CC units drop).
Thanks for any help! I think this kind of collective thought helps us all to polish the potential of the army.
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41 minutes ago, PJetski said:
Has anyone found a use for Prosecutors yet (besides battalions that require them)
Taking into account those battalions are now rubbish, I doubt people will keep using them for that. On the other hand, their 3d6 charge could make them useful in min-sized units to deepstrike and tie shooters and fast units, or to kill characters without bubble wrap.
Not a lot more besides that, really.
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1 hour ago, Fyre said:
You don't need elite units with a 20 block of sequitors. I proxied them for a match against khorne and they obliterated everything they touched. His bloodthirster died to the 9 grand weapons alone. They really are bonkers with all the possible rerolls.
On a other note the evocators are the same. So many mortal wounds on top of the already good weapon damage.
For me, those two units completely replace the old libs and paladins. Which sucks because I have to reinvest and completely lay down the old models.
The Arcanum general tax is not that bad since the Arcanum itself provides lots of support options.
Yeah, but one of my self-imposed principles is that I don't use Stormcast hordes. 20 Stormcast in a single unit are too much to me. It breaks my vision of the army. Shooting myself un the foot? Pretty likely, but that's how I roll.
I agree about Sequitors and Evocators completely replacing those units, though.
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6 hours ago, Lord_Orzhov said:
Out of curiosity, who would still take sequitors if they were 140 for 5 instead of 120? Would that be reasonable or too expensive, thoughts?
I wouldn't. They are good, but not 140 points good. I would grudginly return to the boring, unimpressive but cheap Liberators.
I see our battlelines as cheap filler and not our workhorses, so that also bias my opinion. Spending so many points on batteline instead of elite units feels wrong to me.
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26 minutes ago, Namelessone81 said:
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer
LEADERS
Lord-Aquilor (200)
- General
- Command Trait : Deathly Aura - Artefact : Soulthief
Lord-Exorcist (140)
- Spell : Celestial Blades
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell : Celestial Blades
Lord-Castellant (100)
15 x Vanguard-Hunters (360)
-Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes
5 x Liberators (100)
-Warhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
-Warhammers
6 x Vanguard-Palladors (400)
-Boltstorm Pistols and Starstrike Javelins
6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (360)
ENDLESS SPELLS
Everblaze Comet (100)
TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 115
I will try this list because I really like the vanguard and I think that they have some potential now with the -1 to hit when they drop .
what do you think ?
It's nice, I was just working on something similar (yet quite different, mine has LA on Tauralon and Soulstrike Brotherhood).
I think the Lord Exorcist is strictly worse than another Incantor. I understand you may like the model, but he is deadweight.
15 Vanguard Hunters may be too many, they tend to be more of an annoyance/distraction/objective grabbers than a killy unit. One unit of 10 and one unit of 5 would save you the points of one of those Liberator units and allow you to upgrade the other to Judicators or spend the points elsewhere.
Anvils CA will work wonders on Longstrikes, for sure!
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5 minutes ago, PJetski said:
Tempestors can't reduce melee hit rolls any more, but now they reduce ALL missile weapons within 12", which is a strong effect. When you stack it with the Celestian Vortex you can give all enemy units -2 to hit with missile weapons... that's like giving your entire army a Mirrorshield!
It's worth noting that Decimators get 1 attack for each enemy model in range... it doesn't matter whether those models are in the unit you are attacking or not. Between that and reducing enemy bravery by 2 I can see people using Decimators in the new meta that seems to favour hordes of Witch Aelves, Idoneth Thralls, Chainrasps, Skeletons, etc.
Protectors have some unique utility in granting cover to nearby units, which is great for a deep strike shield maneuver. Cover on demand, when and where you want it? Sounds pretty good to me... especially since cover stacks with Staunch Defender. Deploying Ballistas in the open behind Protectors to get cover is a neat trick. Protectors also deal their D6 damage on hit6 instead of wound6, which is a big deal - you'll see that effect activate much more often now.
Units like Protectors and Fulminators that get defensive bonuses against shooting attacks are really good at tying down shooting units (remember that you cant shoot out of melee any more!).
The real losers are Retributors and that's a tragedy because they are the iconic Stormcast unit in my eyes. I was hoping they would get a 3+ save this edition or at least a point cost reduction.
As I run out of reactions, quoted for the truth!
Plus congratulations on the Protectors+Ballista combo, it's a really cool hidden gem.
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8 minutes ago, Mikosan said:
I would add Tempestors to the list of units that lost out. They were a relatively under rated unit that I always found a use for, now I just don't see the point. Taking the breath attack was OK but losing the targeted -1 to hit against melee was just too much. 12" aura that only works against shooting...just why?
How are Evocators not better than old paladins? I still like protectors and they are arguably better in certain circumstances, but Evo's seem better than both Retris and Decimators at current points cost.
Overall I think the book is fantastic in isolation, in the context of new NH though..... it really feels like they were pulling back on the reins for stormcast(spells that require a casting roll then another dice roll to do one mw comes to mind) while at the same time letting loose on the NH.
Still can't wait to get games in. Also waiting for better players than me to figure out some stealth combos that I can shamelessly steal
Tempestors are a lateral step for me. They are better at 12 (crossbows+Breath), close combat was never their place, and they can disrupt more than 1 shooting unit at a time.
5 minutes ago, Turragor said:I see what ppl are saying but I'm not sure there's a balanced and agreed consensus on whats good and not yet. Not so early.
My view: books good. SC gonna win things.
Also, the paladin nerf, are we talking the starsoul mace change? What is the net change there damage wise? It can be more with a 6.
Otherwise pallys are buffed by Scions change and charge manipulation.
Big loss is the hammerstrike battalion change?
Around 1,8 mortals VS 2.
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10 minutes ago, PJetski said:
Sureheart is strictly better, since +3 is worth much more than reroll. However, command points have a significant opportunity cost.
You can use Surehearts ability multiple times. If you use it 3 times for +9" charge you have a guaranteed charge out of Scions.
...assuming your army has the HAMMERS OF SIGMAR keyword
Sureheart has a smaller range, Command points (as you said) are a valuable resource, not everyone wants to be Hammers, and the Vexillor comes with a really good redeploy/nuke (vs having nothing to contribute to the game besides his CA and shield).
I'm in the Team Vexillor ?
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12 minutes ago, PJetski said:
You can still do a Warrior Brotherhood
If you want a good footslogging army you should try the Astral Templars - a 6" move after deployment for most (all?) of your army is quite strong on units that only move 4-6" normally. Add in a couple Heraldors to let you run & charge key units, command point to run6, drop a Vexillor into play to reroll charges... you can turn start getting some turn 1 charges with Paladins ?
That's nice! The problem is not only speed, but also resilience. Paladins die like flores for their price.
12 minutes ago, Turragor said:I've seen this a few times and I must warn all, some things are going to get nerfed.
Evocators will potentially get nerfed hard.
What about buffing Paladins, instead? Seriously, Evocators are right as they are. It's just that the competition is awful. That's the message we must send to GW.
4 minutes ago, AdamR said:In before it gets FAQ'd out...
Anvils of the Alphastrike
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer
Leaders
Lord-Aquilor (200)
- General
- Trait: Deathly Aura
- Artefact: Soulthief
- Mount Trait: Savage Loyalty
Battleline
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (120)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades
Units
12 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (720)
Total: 1240 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 15
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 61
Deploy Aquilor and Longstrikes somewhere out of line of sight/far away if going second
Turn 1 - redeploy with Aquilor ability then heroes of another age up to 15 times with the longstrikes.
On average that's 60 mortal wounds and 80 -2 rend 2 damage wounds.
As you're using the shots in batches of 12, it should be pretty straightforward to shoot of any LoS granting chaff first before concentrating on bigger things.
I know it has some counters, but it if you can't passively debuff the shooting, it'll be minus fun to play against!
That's why we can't have nice things! ?? Please do not force It so much that GW will notice.
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3 minutes ago, PJetski said:
I love the new book.
@ People saying the LC is weak... have you considered that he's a low priority target that benefits from Look Out Sir and that he can use his command ability more than once?
Although Retributors lost their 6+ hit mechanic, +1 hit is still very good and there are still lots of powerful abilities that work off hit6+ like the Sword of Judgement that does D6 mortal wounds to a HERO/MONSTER on hit6+.
I'm disappointed that the LC is strictly a support hero, but at least he's good at what he does
I do too!
@ but the Celestant got double nerfed. +1 to hit has lost its synergy with almost everything. It's useful, but a los less special. And he must get into combat, which will happen only if you drop him with Scions and get lucky/invest on the charge, or in you defensive line when the enemy comes for you/your home objectives.
Sadly, he is objectively worse.
One thing I mourn is the lack of incentives to play a foot-slogging heavy infantry army a-la old Knights Excelsior Exemplar Chamber. They could have used the KE Stormhost rules for that, but instead gave us the most craptacular combination of special rules the world has ever witnessed (sorry for the unchecked hyperbole ?
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4 minutes ago, J0nathanc said:
In a 2k list in order to snipe supporting characters would you run 3 ballista and ordinator or 6 longbow raptors
Well, for starters the Raptors are 80 points cheaper. And they would be brutal with Anvils CA.
But both options have their merit.
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49 minutes ago, ledha said:
Personnaly, not that much
I have close to 4000 pts of stormcast, most of which were nerfed (part of because of the new rules with wholly within and so on, i know) and i feel like making a half-competitive list without sacrosanct units is just shooting myself in the foot.
Why take liberators when sequitors exist ? Why taking paladins when evocators are better than them in every way ? Why taking any battalion while cleansing phalanx is way better ?
When i look at my old list (with 20 paladins), my mind scream "just dump them and take evocators man!"
Sure, some "old units" became better (like the azyros), but the celestant on foot for example is a shadow of what he was, and the growing importance of spellcaster mean that we can't do like before, having close to zero dispell, but being able to go trough anyway.
Just because you banked on already-weak units (that should have been buffed but sadly didn't) like Paladins you shouldn't give people such a sweeping bad opinion of the battletome. I invested in Vanguard units quite a bit (not thousands of points though) and they got buffed ti the point of being interesting (even if still suboptimal).
If they asked me, I would say I'm generally pretty happy. My old units are better and the new ones are awesome.
19 minutes ago, Namelessone81 said:LCoSD or LAoT ?
I think the Arkanum has more synergies in the current state of the army , but still I can’t decide...
i want a big unit in my army
Why not Drakesworn+LaoTauralon? They make a good, synergistic tandem and cost only 800 points
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1 minute ago, Qaz said:
He forgot to mention that only one unit has 5+/5++/5+++ and the -1 to hit is for shooting only.
But unfortunately, killing the Hag usually require rather disproportionate resource and there's usually more than 1. (They are only 60 pts afterall)
Interesting, I expected that. I gotta go back to the old habit of reading every battletome to know the enemy ?
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13 minutes ago, InvalidUsername said:
Usually they'll be at either 5+ 5++ 5+++ or 5+6++6+++ -1 to hit and they are 100% immune to morale at all times until all of their hag queens are dead., clearing off units that would be dangerous to the sequitor squad is good option, as even with their surprising amount of resilience, units like these can lose effectiveness relatively quickly and can become more manageable at smaller numbers.
Having an additional, faster threat unit would help take attention off the sequitors and let them get to where they need to be going unmolested. Maybe shuffling some points around to pump up a unit of evocators to 10 and have them dive bomb something on the flanks would give them the breathing room they need to be able to really dish out the damage.
A unit of sequitors that gets charge initiative is in a position to sweep the entire board with smart CP use. It's about facilitating them hitting combat when YOU want them too, rather than your opponent.
I see, so some of these must depend on external buffs (5+ save through Blood Shield or Bladed shields and losing an attack, for example) and -1 to hit is already the single elegible Temple. I guess it's never a bad idea to try to kill some of this support if it doesn't require disproportionate resources.
I mentioned Hurricanes with Aetherwings as the old "block a charge with their special move" can give an extra turn of close range fire. For 190 points it doesn't feel as a super-hefty tax.
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2 minutes ago, InvalidUsername said:
The gryph hound is irrelevant. Everything can get a 9" drop. If the gryph hound charges a necromancer it's still probably going to die in combat or have to retreat out, if it even has somewhere to retreat to. Also that's a 28% chance of succeeding the charge, if you even can charge, but that's never going to happen because, like you said, screens. If the gryph hound dies, congratulations on wasting your precious 120pts on a single unboosted unbind every turn.
The relictors warscroll prayer is amazingly powerful, it's at least as powerful the table prayers, where the veritant has nothing.
The extra wound and CC profile are totally irrelevant, they add nothing significant when that close to the enemy. He's still doing biff all damage and dies whenever your opponent feels like it.
For 20pts you get irrelevant bonuses to combat, an even more irrelevant gryph hound, an unbind that would be much better from an Incantor, and a prayer. You're also forcing yourself to keep an extra unit on the board for him just to be able to be worse at the thing he's supposed to be doing than an incantor.
The Gryph-hound will have room to retreat: the same path he went through! It's your turn, pile in with him first so you can attack without retaliation. Ok, the charge is difficult, but if you have a spare CP you can reroll.
Ok, let's think outside of the box, what can a Veritant do well? Contribute to a Bravery bomb. Aspect of Sigmar plus Lantern plus Anvils Command Trait (yeah, let's go there and make him general) is -3(-4 VS Chaos) by himself. Then, the unbind, Gryph-hound and anti-wizard prayers are a bonus. Is that combo optimal, tournament-competitive? Maybe not, but it's a fun tool to try new things outside of Incantors out of the wazoo.
Just for the record, you always come up as dismissive and agressive towards other people's ideas. Maybe you could try to be a bit more positive?
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2 minutes ago, InvalidUsername said:
It IS the most incredibly offensive unit in the game, it is also a very commonly played unit. It's not impossible to play DoK several times per event and each time is likely to have 2 units of buffed witch aelves. Having a strategy ready for it is just good business. Besides, other commonly used units like bloodletters or even some of the new nighthaunt stuff can do similar things to witch aelves, and sequitors damage being focused on its grandhammers, combined with the new rules for coherency, mean that if your opponent can use their speed to get around you they can lay their offense into where your counter attack will be weakest and can force you to pull away models that would have been able to fight if you want to keep the greatmaces around. Remember, it's SUPER risky now to take a model away from the center of a unit, one bad measurement and whoop! half the unit's gone.
Gavriel or Cogs are almost mandatory just to function, using a heraldor is a good solution, but it still leaves you between a rock and a hard place if you need to get somewhere where there isn't a unit to charge, like covering an objective.
What is the common save for those Witch Aelves (6+6+ reroll?)? Bravery protection? I think Hurricane Raptors+Aetherwings could work (theoretically) against them.
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4 hours ago, InvalidUsername said:
No. That'd be a waste of a relic anyway, but he DOESN'T get an extra unbind with spellshield(only wizards get an extra one) and he'll probably never be at +3 to dispel. Getting a specific gryph hound that close to an enemy wizard and having it survive both the combat phase AND wizards not within 6" of the gryph hound killing it is unrealistically difficult. In fact, the Veritant is actually worse than he was for the most part. The Incantor is a better spell stopper while also being a strong caster, the army isn't hurting for unbinds anymore, the Relictor is still better at being a priest. He, along with the Lord Exorcist, seem totally lost in this book.
Why is he worse than he was?
He gets the gryph-hound for free, and he can get a guaranteed drop at 9 from your enemy (screens and all, I know) then the Gryph-hound is only a charge away from the Wizard. Charge, attack, retreat less than 6 (it's debatable if you must move the whole distance) and the Gryph-hound is in unbind range next turn. If the opponent spend a spell on killing It, congratulations on wasting his precious resources on a free model.
Yeah, he gets one less prayer than the Relictor, but for the good ones he is exactly the same. Plus, the extra wound and nice CC profile make it less feeble when droping in the enemy's face. For 20 points you get the hound, a wound, a no-trash combat weapon, the unbind and the (very situational) damage prayer. I can't see how he is a bad deal.
As It was worded, spellshield won't work with him. But Lantern of Tempest could be nice to offer a protection bubble when Scion-dropping with friends.
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6 minutes ago, PJetski said:
Ordinator aura doesn't stack.
It's also worth noting there are a few battalions that involve bringing a single ballista, which raises the value of the Ordinator.
I meant two Ballistas + an Ordinator.
What disallows you to bring a Ballista in the battalion then other outside?
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2 hours ago, Mrmattywoodz said:
I Disagree. I have been running him with two ballistas for about 8 games now, and he has been amazing.
Numbers have been run, and three ballistas are better than 2+Ordinator. Anecdotal evidence won't change that.
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34 minutes ago, Cyanix0 said:
Having some fun building a new list, although similar to others, whats people's thoughts on this:
Leaders
Lord Arcanum on Turalon (General) - God Forged Blade
Lord Ordinator
Knight Incator - Staff of Focus
Knight Vexilor
Battleline
5x Sequitors
5x Sequitors
5x Sequitors
Units
5x Evocators
5x Evocators
3x Castigators
Artillery
Celestar Basllista
Celestar Basllista
Endless Spell
Everblaze Comet
Batallion
Cleansing Phallanx
Sounds nice! But the Ordinator is not really worth it with less than three Ballistas. What about 3 Hurricane Raptors instead? Or a Lord-Veritant for unbind+prayer?
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1 hour ago, chord said:
I think the Knight Venator's new wording for the star fated arrow means it would work with the Bless Weapons right?
Yes, the combo is definitely legal. Too unreliable to expect a 6 in the single turn you can use the arrow. You can use the Luckstone to get that guaranteed 6, but at this point the investment is huge (artifact, Lord Relictor and 4+ prayer). The payoff is huge, though!
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2 hours ago, boombyeyeah said:
yes! just did run some tests on the druchii combat calc. the blade and szepter is only better against 2+ saves, equal against 3+, and twohandstaff get alot better against worse saves. And better range!
But they look way worse (imho).
The staff heads shown (maybe there are nicer alternatives in the sprue) look way too chunky, clunky and baroque. On the other hand, the one handed scepter heads are sleek and look like actually dangerous, practical weapons.
That, and you can model lightning between the swords and scepters ?
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16 minutes ago, ShadowSwordmaster said:
What is everyone thoughts on the Evocators overall? I plan to get some both on foot and on dracolines.
Evocators: all-round better Retributors but cheaper, faster, more versatile.
Evocators on Dracoline: a middle step between Palladors and Dracothian Guard. Not a no-brainer choice but good nonetheless.
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AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion
in Stormcast Eternals
Posted
In fact it's extremely weak to the point of pointlessness. Either they kill your model with exact wounds, or it does nothing.
Disappointing, isn't it?