Retro
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Posts posted by Retro
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3 hours ago, Kharneth said:
Other than for battalions, what is the benefit/advantage of taking blood warriors over skullcrushers? It has recently occurred to me that skullcrushers have the same defense, but slightly greater wounds, and superior offense compared to blood warriors. In addition, they're faster and don't take up much more space in melee (do you guys fight in 2 ranks with blood warriors?). This question is for people who use Juggerlords or who take blood warriors over skullcrushers in lists that have exceeded the minimum battleline requirements.
Personally I find bloodwarriors middling at best. I mostly use them because they are a requirement in a battalion and cover off battle line at the same time.
That said, bloodletters are also battleline so you often don't need many bloodwarriors.
If you have a bloodsecrator in the army to provide immunity to battleshock, and extra attacks, bloodreavers actually come out more cost effective for both offence and staying power so I normally plump out my lists with them instead.
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2 hours ago, Kharneth said:
Thanks for the responses, I've only been playing against my one friend so my experience has been very limited.
Ok fair enough, I was just making sure you played with terrain and objectives. When I first started out playing 40k (15 years or so ago) we only ever played till the last man standing and often without terrain. Made for very bad battles (I was Orks and almost always was turned into pink mist before ever reaching them).
What I was thinking was just the bloodthirster, not bloodletters too (trying to keep in mind you using some of those new models). If you give him the ragged cloak, whip him, command ability and possibly the run 6" command ability too he should manage to hit the enemy lines turn 1. If you hit the crossbows they wont be buffed so their stand and shoot will only be 4+/4+ and rend on 6s and I imagine you'll kill a few.
In his turn when he tries shooting with them you pop the cloak ability so he can't be targeted. If he's in combat with them they can't shoot at all. You could also try to keep the rest of your units just outside of their range until your next turn so they have to shoot the thirsters but can't because of the artifact.
If you have bloodletters as well then you can use his command ability and whip and fling them across the table to engage someone else (turn one keep them out of range). If he moves the crossbows to get into range, makes your charge easier and he can't use the command ability to give them +1 hit and wound so they will be a bit more pillow fisted.
Wrath of khorne - 320
Bloodstoker - 80
Jugger lord - 140
Blood warriors - 100
Skullreaper - 170
Skull crushers - 140
950 points
Or
Wrath of khorne - 320
Stoker - 80
Jugger - 140
Bloodletters -320
Skullcrushers - 140
1000 points - no extra command point but probably a better list overall. You could swap the skull crushers for reavers if you want the extra command point.
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5 hours ago, Kharneth said:
I don't think it's possible for my list to beat his list unless I go first on the second turn, that's part of the reason I'm frustrated. I can't see a way to traverse 24" without getting shot up by his crossbowmen without taking the WoK thirster and some whipped bloodletters.
Out of curiosity, how much terrain did you guys use and what was the battleplan?
Terrain can make a big difference (cover/break line of site) and sometimes you can win on objectives even if your army gets creamed.
Edit:
I was just browsing the malign sorcery artifacts and found ragged cloak. Not a great artifact for a tournament but might be good on a bloodthirster against this shooting list.
Once per game he can't be targetted by shooting
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47 minutes ago, Kharneth said:
Yeah, I had the same thoughts. I only have 10 bloodreavers right now. How would screening help? He'd just shoot the units behind them, wouldn't he? I was thinking if I had enough bloodreavers I could survive the shots through numbers, but I'd rather not buy a horde of bloodreavers. I have 9 skullcrushers and a juggerlord, but even then I think the speed isn't enough because I wouldn't get a turn 1 charge and they take damage as fast as blood warriors but have less wounds per point.
320 - WoK Bloodthirster
140 - Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut
80 - Bloodstoker
320 - 30 Bloodletters - FC, Gore-Drenched Icon
140 - 3 Skullcrushers - Bloodglaives, FC
1000 points. I think Violent Urgency on the Juggerlord and either Talisman of Burning Blood also or Crimson Crown on the Bloodthirster.
I'm not too confident in the demon's ability to fly across the board, though. If the Bloodthirster can't run and charge, how does he charge an enemy that hasn't moved forward yet? If he moves 10" he'll be out of range for shooting and if he runs he won't be able to charge. The bloodletters will move 10-15" with an average of 11" charge. Does the +3" from the Bloodstoker increase the Bloodletter's threat range for charging?
Don't skullcrushers have a (slightly) lower cost per wound? 140 for 15 vs 100 for 10.
If you drop the hugger lord for 10 reavers you'll have enough points left for 1 extra command point. Then you can run/charge the bloodletters and wrath of Horne at the same time.
The whip adds 3" to both the run and the charge so whoever you whip will get an extra 6" if they can run and charge in the same turn.
Another option could be dropping the bloodletters and just whipping the bloodthirster. With 10" move, command ability, and whip his minimum threat range will be 21" (if you roll all 1s for run and charge - very unlikely) and if you have an extra co left you can use it to guarantee a 6" run or reroll charge depending on which one you whiff. He went Ben able to shoot that turn but he'll hit their lines pretty damn hard - especially if you give him death dealer and immense power (or some other combo to make him more killy)
you could replace the bloodletters with mortals as you see fit and they would be forced to dump everything into the bloodthirster in that first turn or he will make them hurt. Might give you enough time to plod up the field with the rest of your mortals.
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10 minutes ago, Kharneth said:
That's disappointing to hear, but good to know. I honestly can't see Mark of the Destroyer being OP on anything seeing as it's instant death if you roll poorly or fight something very tough, but I've never actually used it.
So, unrelated, I got the chance to play a couple games this weekend against my friend and I got shot up by crossbowmen and was hoping for some advice. We had 1,000 points and he had 30 free guild crossbowmen hitting on 3+, wounding on 2+ and with rend on 4+ that killed everything. I was using blood warriors and skullreapers, but nothing made it to the swordsmen he had guarding his line. I probably won't face this list again, but in regards to heavy shooting what defense do we have? I don't think my skullcrushers would've faired better. I have a bloodthirster and ~50 bloodletters, but they're on old bases and I was hoping to use the new units.Yeah there is definitely risk and reward, Ive been in situations where I didn't want to charge my lord of khorne because he only had access to enemy heroes and probably wouldn't kill him in 1 turn.
Personally I think bloodreavers are a good screen against shooty enemies, they cost less points per wound and rend barely effects them.
Skullcrushers might fair better simply because they move faster.
That said, the best I thing is just getting there quicker, which is normally:
Wrath or khorne CA on 30 bloodletters, then Bloodstoker whip on the same 30 bloodletters
Maxed murderhost, which I doubt you'd fit into a 1000pt match anyway
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1 hour ago, andysonic1 said:
This does not supersede the individual boxes where they display the items that all begin with "Any KHORNE (insert keyword here) HERO". You are still restricted by the MORTAL and DAEMON keywords. The errata is simply to try and make things a little more streamlined in the book itself.
Yeah, that errata kicked up a bit of a dust storm.
I feel like the daemon artifacts are a bit tamer than the mortal ones because of the potential to put them on bloodthirsters. Mark of the destroyer would be a bit OP on a bloodthirster.
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3 hours ago, Dan.Ford said:
Lets not go down that road , please. Thank you
In that case I guess we will just have to agree to disagree
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3 hours ago, Dan.Ford said:
Yes, that is Page 231 and 232 of the Core rule book Attacking.
its very simple for this item as it state 'that attack' NOT 'that Hit'
First you pick a weapon ( not all , just one to be that Flowstone blade ).
You then attack with that weapon but 'Each time' you roll a hit roll of a 6+ for 'this weapon', add 1 to the wound roll for 'that attack'.
How many +1 wound you get is determined by the number of hits you roll that are 6+ from that attack. The number of hit dice you roll is determined by the model Attack characteristic.
This item is Not the specific individual Hit roll but 'that attack' for that weapon the player picked at the start . And certainly not the 'attacks' of the model, some models have 2-3 weapon attack.
So this item makes it very clearly written 'that attack' not 'that hit'
By this logic the cursed weapons of the grave guard would get double damage for each wound roll of 6+
"If the wound roll for an attack made with a Wight blade or great Wight blade is 6+, double the damage characteristic of that attack"
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17 minutes ago, mangaramb said:
Does "Mark of the Destroyer" work on Bloodthirster Of Insensate Rage ? It should double it's attacks to 8 (9 with Bloodsecrator), add a few +1 to hit to that and you should get quite a lot of mortal wounds. I think now FAQ allows any Heroes to equip Trophies of War, not only Bloodbound, right?
As awesome as that would be, mark of the destroyer is limited to khorne bloodbound heroes.
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23 minutes ago, Kharneth said:
Do 1s always fail, still? If a Juggerlord with Ghyrstrike uses its command ability to get +1 to wound stacked with the +1 from the weapon will he automatically wound all hits or will he still roll? I'm trying to figure out which 2 artefacts and which command trait to take, and on who.
In the main rules (available on the app for free) it states natural 1 is always fail and natural 6 always succeeds
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I feel like changing slaughterpriests to 3+ to pray and changing gore pilgrims to reroll 1s on prayers would work fix a lot of issues
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1 hour ago, Dan.Ford said:
Yes, correct.
First you pick one of your weapons for that attack you want to be the Flowstone blade is Dagger, hammer , flail , axe etc.
When you roll to hits any 6+ for that weapon ( not weapons just one weapon) add +1 wounds for that attack.
So if you are luck and you roll 2 6+ for that weapon.
Your wound rolls for that weapon only will have +2 to wound.
So Outragous carnage would trigger on a 4, 5 and 6 but still wounding a 2's.
I always interpreted that as being only the specific attack that hit 6 or higher got +1 to wound.
For example, hitting on 4+ and wounding on 4+, you get 3 hits, a 4, 5 and a 6. Then when you make wound rolls, 2 of them will wound on 4+ and 1 of them on 3+.
I would love to be wrong about this, it would make flowstone way better than I thought
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11 hours ago, Kazimer said:
This is all good math offensively, but the Warriors still have a few major ups compared to Letters. A 4+ save is still far better than a 5+, and they can take more punishment before losing their damage output due to 2 wounds a model.
More maths!
Without rend, 100 points of blood warriors will take 20 wounds to move, 120 points of bloodletters only take 15 wounds.
Personally I've never had much success with blood warriors on the offensive, they just get bogged down. They don't scale well with our usual buffs, +1 hit is a 25% buff and +1 attack is a 50% buff. Bloodletters on the other hand get 100% more mortal wounds from +1 hit or +1 attack.
Where they have come in handy for me has been when I sit them on an objective or fling them at an enemy elite to hold them up for a couple of turns. Plus they are battle line and are a prerequisite in a lot of battalions.
I normally take them in a unit of 10 but sometimes 5 if I'm tight on points.
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19 hours ago, Xasz said:
Chaos Warriors are probably the single best aging GW model ever.
They are pretty much timeless and work great in AoS despite being from 6th edition WHFB.
Can't imagine standard skeletons aging much either, not much you can do with bones + weapons haha.
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53 minutes ago, Bululu said:
I would say yes, as you move "as in the movement phase " wich includes the option to declare run
That said I'm pretty sure I read in an FAQ somewhere (can't remember specifics) that if you do run in the hero phase with an ability it disqualifies you from shooting/charging.
Unless you have a rule allowing you to run and shoot/charge
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3 hours ago, Entombet said:
So if i read it right, god battalions can ally their god units and benefit from the buffs?.
You can't ally any god army units into a Beasts of chaos army (unless it's marked slaves to darkness)
So no you can't.
What the FAQ allows is a khorne army to take a brass despoilers battalion without using ally points or breaking allegiance (or god army of your choice)
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Good news, we can officially include a brass despoilers battalion in a khorne army.
I'll be brewing up some beast khorne lists myself, how about you guys?
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38 minutes ago, Revan123 said:
Sadly, this guy don't have Bloodbound or Daemon keyword and cannot get such traits or artifacts
Actually he does have the daemon keyword. Probably the best thing about the model
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4 minutes ago, Mikeymajq said:
Do you guys run units of skillreapers in 5's or 10's? I got none but it sounds like I should. Recently got 5 wrathmongers and I've been loving them so far.
If you're handy with green stuff you can use legs from other models and make yourself 5 skull reapers from your left over bits!
I always run them in 5s, I find that going up against horde units 5 of them are normally more than enough to burn through them, plus it's harder for you to get stuck in a tarpit if you split the units up.
I've never tried 10 but I could see it working. Reduces your drop count if that is an important factor in your list
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Non stackable Crimson crown is statistically just a bubble of reroll 1s to hit, except it can stack with other reroll 1s abilities
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6 hours ago, Iquitelikeegg said:
- 2 x 40 marauders (with flails and shields?) - 400 points in the allies slot - means I'd have to drop the DP + some other stuff to make room
Neither Marauders or DP marked as khorne count as allies
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9 hours ago, mastercrafted said:
Thanks, i don't have any but i might have to look at getting some
If cheap allies are an option, 10 ungor raiders is 80 points, 18" ranged attack, run and shoot (obviously if models allow)
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2 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:
My issue isn't getting them in when I ambush. Its the fact that I could play a game where any points I invest in ambush are wasted. To be clear I mean points invested or opportunity cost to buff ambushing units (artifacts, great frays, command traits, etc).
Sorry, I might not have been clear. I'm more agreeing with you.
What I meant was to use the threat of ambush to force your opponent to deploy in sub optimal ways but don't build your list around it
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29 minutes ago, sorokyl said:
I think the problem with warbands is that they are individual models with different rules. AoS features units of 5+ models of the same type, and then powerful heroes. It's really hard to have a warscroll that is a hybrid hero/unit
Now we have 2 warscrolls for the warbands (that's new right) to try and correct this, but you still have different types of units in the non-hero squad... Hard to make rules for that that fit in with the existing game and the other units
It's cool that they have AoS rules at all. I don't think they should comprimise the primary objective (underworlds warband) just to make sure the unit works well with AoS. most AoShobbyist will use them as counts as or for conversions and just be happy to have the optionI feel like some of them could become a lot more useful by allowing you to fill them up with extra fodder from your army.
For example, garreks reavers could be joined by an extra 20 bloodreavers for their normal point cost or something along those lines.
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AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion
in Chaos
Posted · Edited by Retro
I'm pretty sure in the battletome in the allegiance section that lists the 6 prayers it specifies that you can use them in addition to any prayers they already know.
I had a guy pull me up on it at a league night once and had to find the exact wording for him.