bottle
-
Posts
649 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
23
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Gallery
Store
Downloads
Blogs
Events
Posts posted by bottle
-
-
4 minutes ago, Old Woden said:
Sorry if someone's already asked this but I have an rules question, when it says a hero starts at level 5 does that mean you roll on the advancement table 5 times before the campaign starts and give him those abilities or does it just mean he can only level up 5 times afterwards? @bottle
It's the latter, they already start at level 5 but don't gain abilities for those first 5 levels. They gain abilities from levels 6-10
-
1
-
-
I had a great time again this year! Got smashed up haha, but avoided the spoon and came away with Best Painted!
Thanks to Mark for a great event, everyone from here and Twitter that said hi, and everyone who voted for me!
-
4
-
-
3 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said:
[mention=798]@Bottle[/mention] With the release of Skirmish, any thoughts on the "Hinterlands: Skirmish compatible Edition"?
Very much so! In fact it's already well in the works and I have a number of pages fully completed. Hopefully it's going to be something really fun for fans of skirmish - as well as porting over some of the balance tweaks and campaign elements from Hinterlands it's going to have loads of new content especially for Skirmish, mainly: Rules for a variety of Multiplayer Campaigns, down time between campaigns (and rules to link multiple campaigns together), weather rules, potions, scrolls, artefacts, and expanded rules for your General to almost make it feel like an RPG.
-
11
-
-
I will say the Skirmish book is an absolute steal for £6!
-
6
-
-
I am well up for a grudge-match mate!
And maybe have Krunk off the Carnosaur for your Hunter, the Carnosaur for your Leviathan, and Krunk riding it once you've tamed it?
Although if we can grudge in an early game, that Carnosaur is going to be mine!
-
2
-
-
Omg I can't wait! Time to start making my Hunter and Leviathan
-
3
-
-
2 hours ago, hellalugosi said:
I like how it is now and im very much behind making heroes equivalent to numerous weaker models. Making them full strength i think is just too overpowered. I think the missions should help reflect balance between few models vs many models as @Taffin mentioned.
Im super excited for AOS skirmish and im definitely going to convert my content to match with it when it launches. However, until then, ive been super into Hinterlands.
If you both haven't seen my thread Allegiances and More for Hinterlands i'm attempting to create a general's handbook of sorts, with seperate ways to approach hinterlands. Like i've mentioned before in the thread, i play a lot of pick up and play games, and my club forms a narrative on the spot, since many of us don't have the schedule to commit to a full campaign. I think carrying over the "three ways to play" motto would be a good idea for hinterlands.
OPEN
Multiplayer
Freeform warband building
More random additions to make each game different
Simple battleplans for jumping into the game
NARRATiVE
Campaigns
Thematic and Asymetrical Battleplans
Structure as a guideline, and not a definitive
MATCHED
Balanced battleplans
warband customization options
matched structure
battlefield roles like GHB
I'm loving everything you are working on, and a GHB style pack sounds epic if not daunting! I think adding more content for pick-up games is a great idea, a must in fact. I will also give it some thought but I am excited to see what you come up with, man.
-
9 hours ago, Taffin said:
Just had a thought. How about adding another layer of role playing and have wizards buy magical components for their spells, or fighters buy arrows and bullets for their missile weapons? Calculate the cost of magical aids from casting value of a spell, or a cost of a single arrow from number of wounds it can cause (better arrow heads cost money and you have to take more of them if you can shoot more than once). I know that adds complexity and forces player to keep track of every shot and every spell, but can be fun.
This was something I was hoping to add to version 3. I actually have a load of potions and scrolls that I made (specifically for the Realm Master's Campaign).
I think if AoS Skirmish is capped to 1 hero it could be a great way of being able to customise your hero. There could be a series of weapons and shields/armour too for more fighty heroes.
This is also something Bruticus from the AoS28 group mentioned to me that those players would love to be able to build their own heroes or at least customise them some more. So once AoS Skirmish drops I definitely will look to including this sort of thing in the next update
-
1
-
-
Wow some radical ideas! Full health heroes sound scary because of how much focus they need from grunts to be able to take them down. For hinterlands I always wanted a system where a lone moonclan archer or Freeguild crossbowmen could have a meaningful impact on the game, but I would think they'd be outclassed completey by 5/6 wound heroes.
I think what's going to be most interesting is seeing how AoS Skirmish works and then going from there. They might have half wound heroes or they might have a much stricter cap on heroes (perhaps even a limit of 1 per Warband).
I really like the changes to experience you guys are suggesting. I'll be picking up my copy of Shadow War tomorrow and I am keen to look at the system they have introduced. My experience system is a copy paste of old GW skirmish games and I think giving it a more modern update is a great idea. I like both of your suggestions and will need to play with the both a bit.
-
Hey everyone, I am back from the dead. Job application all done and dusted.
I'm going to catch up on this thread nowbecause it looks like everyone has had a burst of creativity and created lots of cool ideas.
I wanted to ask if everyone is excited for AoS Skirmish? I know I am! I think it's going to be great to get an officially endorsed version of skirmish style play we love - everyone who is making stuff for Hinterlands, I hope you continue to make the same add-ons for AoS Skirmish too. I'm going to try and make every aspect of Hinterlands fully compatible with AoS Skirimish and so hopefully that will mean everything you guys make will also be compatible with everything too.
Now we just need to wait to get our hands on the rules!!
-
4
-
-
It's a great pack. Very fun to read. Now I need to start cooking up ideas for a hunter and a leviathan!
-
3
-
-
1 hour ago, aquietfrog said:
Remember that tombstone looking thing in the rumour engine? It might be part of the terrain kit looking at the stuff here.
Also I do hope bottle's lack of presence online recently means he has something to do with skirmish.
Thanks! But I can confirm this is not Hinterlands being made official or anything like that. I super excited to see this release
-
7
-
-
21 hours ago, Dez said:
@bottle So one player is ahead of the rest, so the rest are all talking about autoroute to get their gold up. What I mean is setting up for a game, and then one player declares they are routing. You still get gold and xp for the scenario, so they just do this ad naseum until they catch up. Way to kill the spirit of the game.
Might be something to think about/faq.
Wow
that definitely seems quite unsporting imo. I will add something in, probably just a single line that they can only be taken after 25% casualties.
I'm going to be on the down-low for a bit, everyone. I have an important job application to put together by the 7th of May, and on the 17th of May I have something cool to show everyone, and after that I will be back in action and looking through all the great suggestions you guys are putting in here!
-
4
-
-
Thanks guys
I get lots of messages every day about Hinterlands, so it's hard to not want to help when people are having a negative game experience because a broken combo can be taken within the rules. I don't think we'll ever have a perfect rule system but I want to strive for it still.
Saying all that, I also think it is strong enough now to focus back on the narrative stuff. Time of War is an excellent idea, I would like to put together a template for an expansion with guidelines on how communities can create their own exapansions too. I always wanted more of the community to create extras for the system but it hasn't come to fruition just yet, so maybe they are still busy working away or maybe I need to give a little more push, inspiration and guidelines.
If you guys have any more ideas for Battleplans and you are keen to share, drop them in here and we can get a pack together for players to use
-
2
-
-
Hey everyone, I went and uploaded a new version; 2.2.1
Firstly I want to say a big sorry for making you download it again.
Secondly, I want to say a big thank you to @Taffin for poking the necessary holes. I want this to be a robust update so I have amended the first rules page to be as follows:
The first change is in the Rule of 3 itself, instead of saying "instead inflicts a normal wound", it now reads "instead inflict normal wounds"
This is to make it 100% clear that if an ability would generate 2 mortal wounds, it now generates 2 normal attacks.
Second is the box below on "Exploding Mortal Wounds". If you don't have any you can just resolve the attack normally. This will mean you are never hoping for a 5 rather than a 6.
I am hoping there will be no more changes needed to the rules for a good long time now. I want a strong system that everyone can play with for the moment, so we can work on other more fun stuff like extra battleplans and campaign ideas
-
2
-
-
@TaffinNice Battleplan! It is similar to the old 'Rescue' mission from Necromunda. I'll have a think about some set-up ideas. If we can get a bunch more Battleplans together I would be happy to dress them up nice and make a download pack
As for the new rule of 3, the intention is each Mortal Wound is replaced by a regular wound with rend '-' and damage 1. So the Jezzails would not miss out on damage, just rend (which I will address in a moment).
I liked your suggestion but the reason I didn't opt for it was because I didn't feel like it did enough to the high-end craziness of Mortal Wounds some models can put out. A 6+ ward isn't going to do much against the 9 mortal wounds a Knight Heraldor can dish out each turn (D3 on 3 models), for example.
The rule I went for does the same as your suggestion (models in cover get +1 save, because it counts as a normal attack) and more (because they get their additional save on top) as well as models out of cover getting their save too. It means that Mortal Wounds are not affected in small amounts but are greatly affected in high amounts, whereas your suggestion is a minor nerf across the board.
I agree that with exploding attacks (like the Warplock Jezzails) it seems silly to wish you rolled a 5 instead of that 6. This would also happen with your rule; if you shot a model with a 6+ save in cover, a 5 would punch right through where a 6 would give them a 6+ save (because it would be a Mortal Wound).
Tonight I will add an errata to the FAQ that if a player has ran out of Mortal Wounds they can choose to resolve any exploding attacks normally instead. Then you get the choice, auto-wound but have no rend, or roll to wound as normal and get your rend.
But saying all this, I will keep in mind other suggestions for dealing with Mortal Wounds moving forwards. The +1 save for running is definitely going in version 3. I will make it a 6+ ability save called something cool like Fate Favours the Swift
-
1
-
-
I think the +1 save to missile weapons when you run is an amazing rule. I'll definitely be looking to play that in my next games with a view to including it. As for Battleshock, it's a nice simple system, the only thing that makes me weary are the bravery extremes. Have you played it with Skaven (bravery 4 I think) or Undead (bravery 10)?
-
UPDATE - VERSION 2.2 IS NOW LIVE
Hey everyone, I have released version 2.2 today and it is intended as a balance update to some of the issues we have all been talking about over the past few pages. I am really grateful for the feedback everyone is giving and wanted to share my reasons for the exact changes, and hopefully you will agree they are for the best! (If not, just house rule it as you see fit).
CHANGES IN VERSION 2.2
1. ADDITIONAL RULE OF THREE, LIMITING MORTAL WOUNDS TO 3 A TURN
This is the big one. So let me talk to you how the change works, and hopefully you'll like it. Lifted from the PDF, the rule is as follows:
QuoteThe 2nd Rule of Three: In a single turn a player may only inflict up to three Mortal Wounds onto enemy models. Any additional abilities or attacks which generate further Mortal Wounds instead inflict a normal wound with a rend characteristic of ‘-’ and a damage value of 1.
This change is more impactful than it first seems, so I want to talk to you how this will affect warbands:
How will this affect a Warband running a single Wizard and no other ways to generate Mortal Wounds?
In no way at all.
This was really important to me as having access to a few Mortal Wounds a turn isn't problematic and is in fact a great tool for dealing with some of the toughest Heroes you will face in Hinterlands.
How will this affect a Warband with access to lots of Mortal Wounds?
Greatly.
I want to talk you through how this ability works. (Everything here is also explained in a new FAQ which is added as page 17 to the file.)
1. The player doesn't get to choose which abilities are Mortal Wound causing and which aren't. You generate them until you have inflicted 3 and then they are replaced with standard wounds (which can be saved against). For example if a player is running both a Lord Celestant and a Knight-Heraldor, the Knight Heraldor's Thunderblast cannot be used until the Shooting Phase. This means the 3 Mortal Wounds would almost always be used up by the Lord Celestant in the Hero Phase.
The only way to save Mortal Wounds for later in the turn is to not use those earlier abilities. As the early ones trigger before the movement phase this is powerful in terms of being able to position yourself to use the later abilities for best effect. (Want to move the Knight-Heraldor into a spot to snipe an enemy with Thunderblast? You're going to have to give up using the Sigmarite Warcloak for the turn).
2. If an ability generates multiple Mortal Wounds (for example D3) and you attack a single wound model, you still see how many are generated and it still counts towards your cap. For example if you used Thunderblast on a terrain piece that had 3 one wound models, you would roll the D3 Mortal Wounds for the first, and if you roll a 5 or a 6 that would be them all used up and the later attacks would be regular wounds.
Do Mortal Wounds need further nerfing?
Maybe.
But I am strongly in favour of small changes rather than something drastic like removing them completely or altering how they work mechanically.
2. THE STARTING LEVEL OF MULTI-WOUND MODELS IS NOW HIGHER
Models that aren't heroes now start on the level equal to their wounds characteristic (one wound, start Level 1, 2 wounds, start level 2) etc. This means that multi-wound models level slower over a campaign than single wound models. In the FAQ it is also clarified that they do not gain advancements for these starting levels.
3. SINISTER TERRAIN ONLY BENEFITS MELEE WEAPONS
This was a nice suggestion by @Forestreveries. I am always keen to give melee a little boost, and this seemed like a great place to do it.
4. DEATH PLAYERS CAN SUMMON BACK TOMB GUARD
This was overlooked by me originally and pointed out live on-air by @Darth Alec
Sorry guys!
5. FAQ IS ADDED TO THE BACK
If you can think of any more questions, let me know! I'll post the current one here. You'll see I preempted lots of questions about the new Mortal Wounds rule and also added a long clarification to why spell lores aren't part of Hinterlands (but could be).
This update is to try and make the game tighter balance wise because I think a good narrative system should also be able to hold its weight in a competitive environment too.
Let me know your thoughts and I'll keep seeking to improve the ruleset!
Cheers,
Bottle
-
8
-
-
@Barteth sure
so, I will say I don't play what I consider "min maxed" Hinterlands lists and they all come from my collection as it's something I get to do with my bros when I invite them over. The most notorious was my brother's Fellwater Troggoth (named 'Fish') that got 2 wound advancements after its first game (after getting a long charge and taking my Wizard out the game). That thing was a nightmare for me and my (other) brother to get rid of, with 6 wounds and healing D3 back every turn. In the first game I had tried to take it out with my Wizard but an unlucky casting roll saw that plan fall apart lol.
My other brother had a good run with his Spirit Host later that day against the Moonclan Grots before being taken out over 2 turns by the Grot Shaman.
We play with loads of big LOS blocking pieces (2 large buildings, a solid rock face, 40k 3rd Ed Ruins and a spaced out Gardens of Morr) and also lots of large cover pieces (3 large forests) which make cover saves common. Big scary things (The River Troll, the Spirit Host, the Skull Reaper) are able to hide out of sight before they launch up into your grill. If any of those in particular get +wounds after the first game they become even tougher.
Not that they were breaking our games, just a fun piece that required Mortal Wounds to take it down reliably and we never had access to many MWs too. No doubt our warbands would get destroyed by a Heraldor + Lord Celestant combo.
@Double Misfire Yeah I frequent the Bristol store where the staff all used to be the Bath staff, so they mentioned it to me!
-
1 hour ago, Double Misfire said:
Mortal wounds being all kind of OP in a skirmish setting was something I noticed back in December when I was putting together feedback for Bottle on the version of Hinterlands at the time.
I've just re-read your feedback from back then and you call out Pink Horrors and Lord Celestant a good 5 months before they became the hot issue they are today. You should be out winning tournaments with your incredible farsight, or is it a 'with great power comes great responsibility' type thing
-
1
-
-
Lots of great input.
Here are some more of my thoughts:
It is important to remember the purpose Mortal Wounds serve in the game from a mechanics perspective (I.e. They are a hard counter to models with high armour saves). It is also important to note that knee-****** changes can swing the meta of a game in wild and unpredictable ways, meaning small tweaks and gentle adjustments are better.
For those reasons I am against taking out Mortal Wounds entirely. I haven't found them to be problematic at all in low numbers (I.e a single Wizard with Arcane Bolt) and in fact they have been crucial tools in the game for dealing with that one high wound model that's chopping through your Warband.
I don't want to penalise Warbands who only have access to D3 Mortal Wounds a turn because for me the problem only arises when a Warband can generate high volumes of them. For example the Heraldor and Celestant combo which can get you up to 9.
That's why I am in favour of some sort of cap at 3 and then subsequently either being negated totally or weakened substantially.
edit - look what it censored haha
-
1
-
-
Thanks for the discussion everyone
really insightful!
Yeah the Lord Celestant is proving to be the new filth. I have had some PMs about his strength too. It seems to me the most problematic things that crop up in Hinterlands are always to do with Mortal Wounds and I think the next rules update is going to need to tackle that. From Heraldors to Celestants to Pink Horrors it always seems to be about a Warband having an unseemly amount of Mortal Wounds that just obliterates the other Warband.
This is the rule I am leaning towards, it is a second Rule of Three:
Only 3 Mortal Wounds per turn inflicted by the player can bypass the enemy's Save Characteristic. The player may choose which Mortal Wounds do so, all other Mortal Wounds inflicted by the player can have saves made against them and count as having rend '-'.
Thoughts behind the rule: It's another "Rule of Three" and so feels familiar to the player. It curtails heavy use of Mortal Wounds but has no effect on a Warband running a single Wizard and no other access to Mortal Wounds. Possible downsides are 1. It is an extra rule and deviation from the standard rules. 2. It makes armour stronger.
Reading the above, while I wouldn't want to ban heroes as I made Hinterlands especially to fit them in! Maybe the amount you can take should be restricted further. If we limited Heroes to 1 for every 3 models total it would stop some of the more broken starting builds (looking at you, Stormcast!)
While I am here, I might as well mention the last rules tweak I had planned and that was to change the starting experience. All non-heroes will start with experience based on their wounds, so a 1 wound model will start at level 1 and a 2 wound model at level 2, etc.
So those are the changes in the works. What are people's thoughts and comments on them?
I also wanted to ask if you would rather the rules patch came out sooner, or later. I have got much more exciting content for Version 3 in the works, but it won't be ready till the summer. I had planned to release the rules tweaks with version 3 as I am conscious that people won't want to constantly redownload the book - if, however the most active players would appreciate these amendments, I can release a version 2.2 much sooner.
Looking forward to hearing from you all.
Edit: Thinking about the Mortal Wound rule more. What about just a flat out restriction to 3 Mortal Wounds a turn and no further can be generated? It's super simple and no-nonsense. I've been playtesting the above version, but this might be a lot more straightforward.
-
17 hours ago, Goodapollo4 said:
My gaming group is hosting Hinterlands nights that run on the off-weeks from our regular escalation/Path to Glory league. We've made a few of our own modifications to help guide some of the list building, which is part of the beauty of AoS and Hinterlands in that we can change rules as we need to and the games still work.
Sounds great! If you're happy to share you could post your modifications here. You're 100% right that the rules were made to be as easy to modify and tailor as possible
-
2 hours ago, Mohojoe said:
Played my first few games today in a campaign. Really enjoying it so far. Only managed to play Ancient artefact and Breakthrough but enjoyed them immensely.
Hoping to play through the campaign a bit further and then will add my thoughts and some feedback.
Glad to hear you are having fun! (And thanks for the tweet today), I look forward to seeing your feedback. Players have been sending through lots of feedback recently that is all really useful (and will hopefully guide the changes for version 3 in the future)
-
1
-
The Rumour Thread
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
I cannot wait to see the contents of the Fyreslayer SC!