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WatcherintheWater

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    AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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    Posted · Edited by WatcherintheWater

    On 6/29/2019 at 10:30 AM, mikethefish said:

    the best Mercenaries of the new GHB (especially for our army) seems to be the Rampagers.

    💯 % agree. I was thinking about putting 40 dwarf warriors in my list to protect my big arkanaut unit and get bodies on objectives. Swapping those out for 40 marauders saves enough points for another 3 Endrinriggers or a Knight Incantor  (basically).

    The great big Generals Handbook 2019 Discussion Topic

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted

    I agree with people on the returns for summoning being too high. I also think its too easy to make a charge with summoned units on the turn they arrive. Cogs, Command Point re-rolls, and all the army specific abilities can pretty easily make it a better than even chance for your charge to be successful.  I would have liked to see some change that summoned units show up at the end of the turn, or can't charge the turn they arrive. 

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    AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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    5 hours ago, SireScott said:

    Hi all,

    Quick question what was the nerf that occurred to the 'Clown Car' build. I've looked at the book and FAQ, and with cheaper ships and Thunderers it sounds like its get potential, so i wanted to check if ive missed something.

    There were a couple things. First was that GW changed the Thunderers warscroll a couple months after the book launched. They made it so you only got 1 of each special weapon per 5 models, which limited what the Khemist buff could do. No more buffed up units all with Aethercannons piling out of the boat and obliterating units.

    Then when AoS 2 dropped they put in two other changes: Disembarking now happens at the start of the hero phase, so you can't use the Barak Zilfin hero phase movement footnote and then still get out out the boat. Slightly less important, but now Endrinrigger's Grapnels also don't let them fly over enemy units, so people can screen out anything they really don't want you to get to.

    All that said, there are still viable Clown Car builds, which can do well.  You just don't see them finishing Top 3 in tournaments anymore.

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    Posted

    40 minutes ago, Kramer said:

    I also wonder how often your second Khemist had no real damage dealers to buff.

    Because most of the army is pretty close together for the first few turns, there are almost always decent  targets. The big unit's Skyhooks, Skywarden Pikes, and Endenrigger saws get buffed almost every turn, while the small unit's Skyhooks, big unit's Pistols, and even the Endrinrigger & Skywarden pistols are a decent targets depending on the situation. I hardly ever wasted the buff. With Urbaz you could try to get away with only one Khemist, but if an opponent is able to take it out early on, you would be in big trouble.

    38 minutes ago, Kramer said:

    What would be the MVP?

    It's all pretty interconnected. The Big Arkanaut Unit does most of the damage, but so much of the list going into supporting it. I think the number 1 unit you need to score objectives and win scenarios has to be the Endrinriggers. 36" move is a life saver in a list that is otherwise pretty stationary.

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    Posted · Edited by WatcherintheWater

    I went to a 5 game GT weekend before last. It's been over a week, so I'm sure some I got a few details wrong, but here is the summary of my games for anyone with the patience to read a big wall of text :).

    My List: Barak-Urbaz.

    Spoiler

     

    Additional Footnotes: There’s no trading with some people & These are just guidelines

    ·       2x Khemists (general with Stickler for the Code and the Gryph-Feather Charm, 2nd Khemist with the Earburster)

    ·       30 Arkanaut Company

    ·       2x10 Arkanaut Company

    ·       12 Endrinriggers w 3 Grapnels

    ·       9 Skywardens

    ·       30 Dwarf Warriors

     

    Game 1 (Scorched Earth)

    Spoiler

     

    Opponent’s List: Legion of Grief – Knight of Shrouds on Steed, 2x20 Grimghast Reapers, 2x20 Bladegheist Revenants, 3x5 Wolves, I think another hero or two and a battalion that buffed the Reapers and Revenants.

    Deployment: He spread his big units across the board and put a unit of Wolves behind on each objective. The Knight of Shrouds went behind some terrain way in the back. I put my Warriors spread across the board a few inches from the front of my deployment zone, the small Arkanaut Companies right behind on the side objectives, and the big unit on the middle, with the Endrinriggers to their right and the Skywardens to their left.

    Summary: He took the first turn, failed all his casts, and then stayed castled up. I shuffled around a little to get my skyhooks in range of one of his Reaper units, and shot off about half. He won turn 2, cast his spells more successfully (including Cogs) and pushed forward with the big units and Wolves. I stayed on my objectives and shot off most of one of his big units and 1 of the units of Wolves. I won the turn 3 roll and decided to make my push. I moved everything into range and shot him down to one partial strength unit of Reapers and one of Revenants, grapneled my Endrinriggers onto his back left objective, and burned it. In his turn he sprung his trap. I didn’t realize that Legion of Grief could return destroyed units. (Not my opponents fault, he did tell me that they could use gravesites just like Legion of Nagash, I just didn’t process that it also meant returning destroyed units. Just a brain cramp on my end.) He summoned back the two destroyed units on the gravesite right in front of my army, and charged everything in. He rolled really high on his charges and with cogs, flew a bunch of stuff right over my Warrior screen, killed a bunch of stuff and took two of my objectives. He won the roll for turn 4, and we called it, since I would probably be left with just my Endrinriggers after his turn. Major Loss

    What I could have done better:

    ·       To do well at a tournament, you really need to know the rules for your opponents as well as your own. I wasn’t familiar with Legion of Grief and paid for it.

    ·       I should have moved up to block out the gravesite close to me. Then he would have had to bring his units back in the gravesite in his deployment zone, and couldn’t have gotten those full-strength units to my side of the board until turn 4.

     

    Game 2 (Focal Points)

    Spoiler

     

    Opponent’s List: Stormcast – Sureheart, Arcanum on a Gryph Charger, Lord Ordinator, 2 Ballista, 2x5 & 1x10 Sequitors, 1x5 & 1x10 Evocators. Battalion that boosted the Sequitors.

    Deployment: He put the Ballistas, Ordinator, Sureheart, and the big Evocator unit in the sky. The Sequitors spread out towards the front of his deployment zone, and the Arcanum and small Evocator unit back behind them out of skyhook range. I put my warriors in a line at the front of my zone, one small Company behind them on each side, Endrinriggers with the small company on the left, Skywardens on the right. Big unit in the middle, with some models trailing back to prevent him from deepstriking behind me.

    Summary: He gave me the turn. Warriors went forward to score the middle objective. Only Sequitors in range for the skyhooks. I rolled to well, and shot the unit of 10 off the board, so he just brought them back 9” from my front line! He dropped with his Ordinator and Balistas and shot off about half the Skywardens, while the returned Sequitors charged the warriors and started grinding through them, while the Skywardens killed only a couple in return. He pushed his up onto the middle objective, and took it after killing enough warriors. He won the turn 2 roll and dropped his big unit of Evocators with Sureheart and charged my left. He could only get half of his attacks into my Endrinriggers, because they were mostly screened by my Arkanauts, but killed the small Company and a few Endrinriggers, who killed several back. He got some more Sequitors into my warriors, and shot off the other small company, taking my right objective.

    In my turn, I had the Endrinriggers fight in the hero phase, and between that and the normal combat took out Sureheart and the Evocators, securing that side and was able to kill enough Sequitors with shooting from my big unit to take back my right objective, but was pinned back and trailing on points. He won the turn 3 roll, and shot off my remaining Skywardens, moving up to retake my right objective, and charging a Sequitur unit into my big Company. In my turn, I shot off the 10 man Sequitors and one 5 man, and they both returned too, pretty much sealing the deal. I maneuvered around with the remaining Endrinriggers and score some in his territory, but it was too little too late. Major Loss

    What I could have done better:

    ·       This is a tough match up for my list. Any army that can hide its important stuff on turn 1, make me go first without good targets, and then get a charge in their half of 1, really puts me on the back foot. It also hurt that he made every 5+ roll to return units to the board.

    ·       Target Priority – I probably spent too much time shooting at the Sequitors. I was really trying to get them off the objectives, but they kept coming back, and the Ballista did so much damage. Killing his heroes would also have prevented him from returning units

     

    Game 3 (Total Commitment)

    Spoiler

     

    Opponent’s List: Khorne – 3 different Bloodthirsters, Slaughterpriest, Bloodstoker, Bloodsecretor, 20 Furies, and an assortment of Bloodrevers, Blood Warriors, and Wrathmongers. Battalion that boosted the Bloodreavers in combat.

    Deployment: He basically had his stuff spread across his front line. I put my warriors a couple inches from the front of my zone, with the small Companies on each objective, supported by the Endrinriggers on the left and he Skywardens on the right, and the big Company in the middle.

    Summary: He took the first turn and pushed everything forward. I went second and shot off 1 Bloodthirster and damaged some smaller units. I won the second turn, shot off one more Bloodthirster, damaged his last remaining one, and shot off a few other models. He charged on his turn 2, rolling a high charge that let him fly his remaining Bloodthirster over my warriors and combo charge several of my  units on the right. The Bloodthirster did an aura of mortal wounds on wound rolls of a 6 and was hitting several units each time. His other units all charged the warriors, with his remaining Furies and a unit of Bloodreavers threatening my left objective. I held onto the objectives this turn, but lost most of my Warriors, one small unit of company, and most of my Skywardens. He also killed one Khemist with the Blood Boil prayer. I won the turn 3 roll and tried to use the hero phase activation on my Endrinriggers, to try and wipe out the Furries and Bloodreavers near the left objective, but the Khemist buffing them was gone, and with some bad dice rolls, wasn’t able to do enough damage until the combat phase, meaning that they couldn’t fly away to threaten his objectives or help on my right. My big Company shot off the remaining Bloodthirster and most of his Wrathmongers, but not until he used Blood Tithe to let the Bloodthirster fight in the hero phase, kicking me off my right objective. In his turn he charged some chaff into my big Company to tie them up, and scored my right objective, going up by 4 points. I won the turn 4 roll, destroyed the rest of his army aside from a hero or two, and grapneled my Endrinriggers across the board to his right objective, but couldn’t get anything to take back my right objective that he still held, so he scored it in his turn. He also summoned some bloodletters 9” from my remaining small Arkanaut company, and made the charge to take that objective as well, clinching the game.

    What I could have done better:

    ·       Feels like this is a match up I should have won, especially since I rolled lucky on priority. It was really close, though. Had his summoned Bloodletters failed their charge in turn 4, the turn 5 roll would have determined the game.

    ·       Overkill on the Bloodthirsters. Should have tried to spread out my fire a little more, rather than being 100% positive to take them out one at a time.

    ·       I should have swapped the deployment of my Endrinriggers & Skywardens. Because of the way terrain was laid out, I didn’t have a very good grapnel target with the Endrinriggers. I also should have just been more aggressive with them this game. We fought almost the whole time in my deployment zone, so there wasn’t much opportunity for me to score his objectives.

     

    Game 4 (Better Part of Valor)

    Spoiler

     

    Opponent’s List: Sylvaneth – Treelord, Drycha, 2 small casters, 2x5 Tree Revenants, 20 Dryads, 2x3 Kurnoth Hunters, Sisters of the Thorn, Gemenids, and a battalion that let everyone cast an extra spell (I think)

    Deployment: He put his initial Wildwoods right in the center of my deployment zone, on the middle objective, then dropped his Treelord and Drycha out of skyhook range on my left, the small casters behind some big terrain near his middle objective, the Sisters on his left objective, Tree-Revenants on the middle and right, the hunters near on his right, and the Dryad unit on his center-left. I put my big Company on my left objective (didn’t want them getting LOS blocked by the woods on my center), the small Companies on my center and right objectives, warriors spread across my front line, Endrinriggers center-left, and Skywardens near the right objective.

    Summary: He gave me the first turn. I shifted a few inches forward, being sure to block him out from teleporting to the woods in my territory and shot off 10 or so Dryads and 1 Hunter. He dropped a woods in his deployment zone, and cast a spell to grow another in front of my big Company, and summoned some more Dryads (he did this most turns). He teleported the Treelord and a Dryad unit to 9” from the Warrior line, in front of my big company, and ran forward with his Hunters and Drycha, but failed the charges. He won the turn 2 roll and used the Wildwoods mortal wound spell to do a bunch of mortals throughout my army, and charged his Treelord, Drycha and some Dryads into my Warriors, while one of his Hunter units charged a small Company and my Skywardens. He wiped out the Warriors, and the Treelord used his 3” reach to take out ~10 of the big Company, but my Skywardens took him down to just 1 wounded Hunter left, which they would kill next turn. I used the hero phase shooting footnote, and between that and the normal shooting phase took out Drycha and the Treelord, while my Endrinriggers charged in and destroyed the Dryads.

    I won turn 3, and my Skywardens charged and took out his 2nd Hunter unit with some help from Arkanaut shooting, while the rest of my army re-consolidated to block out the wildwoods, and hold my objectives. He burned his right most objective (Skywardens would have taken it next turn) for 4 points. He won the turn 4 roll, and teleported his Tree-Revenants near my center and right objectives. They both made their charges, but only the one on the center took objective control. On my turn, I flew my Endrinriggers to near the center objective, where they shot off his revenants, then they grapneled to his left objective, where they destroyed his Sisters and took that objective. The Skywardens destroyed the revenants on my right objective. He teleported some dryads and a caster to the wildwoods near my center objective, and took that back in his turn, but it was too little by then, since I still had 2 objectives that I had held since turn 1. Major victory.

    What I could have done better:

    ·       I should have spread out my small Company units, so that even if he charged he wouldn’t be on the objectives with his teleporting units.

    ·       Need to be careful of units with 3” reach, like the Treelord, since sometime they can reach over your screen and get to the stuff you are hiding.

    ·       My Khemist with the dispel was always a couple inches out of dispel range, and I never remembered to move him up. Measure that 30”!

     

    Game 5 (Shifting Objectives)

    Spoiler

     

    Opponent’s List: Khorne – Skaarac the Bloodborn (big Forgeworld monster), Scyla, 3 Slaughterpriests, Bloodsecretor, 5 Khorgoraths, 2x5 Blood Warriors, 2x10 Bloodreavers, and Hexgorger Skulls. The Khorgoraths were part of a battalion that let them re-roll hits and wounds.

    Deployment: He put his Blood Warriors and Bloodreavers up front, with the Khorgoraths behind them on the right, Skaarac behind them, the heroes a little further back in the center, and Scyla on the far left. I put my warriors in a line, the Arkanauts right behind them (big unit in the middle, smaller to each side), Skywardens on the right, Endrinriggers on the left.

    Summary: He gave me the turn. I ran my warriors up, positioned my Wardens and Endrinriggers right behind them, and moved up 4” with my Arkanauts who damaged a Khorgorath and killed a unit of Bloodreavers. He rushed everything forward, but failed the only long charges he had (needed a 10 or so), and didn’t have enough bodies to score any objectives. I won turn 2, moved forward with everything again, shot off Skaarac, and did some other scattered damage. The Endrinriggers charged out, and killed a couple Khorgoraths. The warriors failed a short charge, which I didn’t bother to re-roll. He charged a couple units into the Endrinriggers, and everything else into my Warrior line, but again didn’t have enough bodies to score the objectives, and I did quite a bit of damage back. He won priority in turn 3, and took the Endrinriggers down to just a couple left, while continuing to grind through the Warriors.  He finally got Scyla into my backfield, charging a small Company, and one Khorgorath charged my other small company, but because of where I placed my Skywardens and how I removed my warriors, I still had more models near every objective. All I had to do in my turn was score 1 point, and he couldn’t catch me. Major Win

    What I could have done better:

    ·       He made one really smart move, where one of his Khorgoraths charged my Warrior line, where my Skywardens were just under 3” behind the front of my Warriors’ bases. But he stopped his charge a half inch from the warriors (still a completed charge), so the Skywardens were just over 3” from his unit and couldn’t be activated. So remember to put your hidden unit 2.4” behind the front of your screen!

     

    Final thoughts:

    Spoiler

     

    ·       2-3 overall, which I was OK with, given how competitive the field was. Of the top 12 finishers, I think 10 were Skaven, DoK, Slaanesh, or FEC, while of the bottom 12 only 2 were. It really shows the gap in power level between the top armies and everything else. I had 5 really fun games against good opponents with good looking armies, though.

    ·       Since I play conservatively with the Endrinriggers for the first couple rounds, I don’t think they need 12. Nine is probably enough given that they aren’t flying into huge combats, so I might drop 3 Endrinriggers for 10 more Arkanauts.

    ·       Looks like the list will be 1930 points in GHB2019. Might just use the extra points on 10 more warriors. Great bodies for claiming objectives, protecting Arkanauts, and just tying things up while everything can shoot.

    ·       The list does suffer from having a high number of drops. Every opponent I played had a battalion, and out dropped me. I might also mess around with a version of the list with 1 Frigate.

    ·       All 3 footnotes I used are great, and useful in basically every game.

    ·       I would switch out the Gryph Feather charm for the mortal wound save artefact. They got targeted with spell and prayers way more than traditional attacks, but people didn’t generally see to target the Khemists.

    ·       One wishlist item: It seems too easy for summoned/teleporting/deepstriking units to make the 9” charge. Cogs, Sureheart, command point re-rolls, and all the army specific charge bonuses can make it pretty dependable. I’d like a rule that you can’t charge on the turn you arrive or maybe moving the distance back to 12”.

     

     

     

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    AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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    47 minutes ago, Kramer said:

    Did you take the dwarf warrior point raise into account? 

    Yeah. Still a good value for that many bodies I think. Keeps your Arkanauts alive a little longer and can help control objectives early in the game. 

    If you wanted to paint up 90 arkanauts you could try to go for another unit of 40 instead of the warriors, but I can’t quite find the points for it.

    AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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    Posted

    Three lists I'm really interested in trying out with the new points (assuming the leaks are correct). Dropping the points for Skywardens, Khemists, and all the boats is awesome!

    Barak Urbaz Gunline

    • 2 Khemists
    • 2x10 & 1x40 Arkanauts
    • 9 Skywardens
    • 9 Endrinriggers
    • 40 Dwarf Warriors

    Barak Zilfin Balloon Army

    • 2 Khemists
    • 1 Frigate
    • 3x10 Arkanauts
    • 1x12 & 1x9 Endrinriggers
    • 9 Skywardens

    Barak Zilfin Hybrid Army

    • 2 Khemists
    • 1 Frigate
    • 2x10 & 1x40 Arkanauts
    • 40 Dwarf Warriors
    • 12 Endrinriggers
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    3 hours ago, j0lt said:

    I've recently got back into AoS and initially thought that Deepkin might be the faction for me, but in all honesty their eel only lists make it unbearable to even list for them, so it looks like I'm back on the Duardin train (does it count as never leaving if I played Dwarfs in WHFB? :D)

    I'm gonna get my hands on an SC box because the discount is still present and Thunderers, Riggers seem cool, as does the small gunboat, obviously I'll need to purchase 2 boxes of arkanaut conpany and a khemist/use the SC guy to make a legal list, I really REALLY want an Ironclad - but I don't know if that's really bad mannered to use at 1000 points!

    I feel like I've got my hobby mojo back, I guess it helps with all the metallic sprays, would anyone suggest using the fang spray for a Zilfin force or is a metallic all over and picking the blue spots manually better?

    The SC is a good starting point. Thunderers and Endrinriggers are both really fun & good options. I think the Gunhauler and Endrinmaster are both really cool models. If you're trying to be competitive, they aren't the best choices, but we should get new some points updates in the 2019 Generals Handbook, so who knows what will be good a few months from now. If you are more skilled than me you could also try to convert the Endrinmaster to a Khemist.

    I don't think anyone would object to you using the Ironclad in a 1K game. It looks awesome, and the firepower isn't so overwhelming to feel unfair. Especially since it takes up a ton of your points!

    I think it's way easier to paint your boats in sub assemblies. When I did my frigates, I primed the hull of my ship blue, and primed the Endrins grey (if you have a metallic spray you could use that instead). Just prime each sub assembly based on whatever color it would use most.

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    22 hours ago, Grudgebearer said:

    What are your thoughts on that list? Would you consider something different and if so, what would you reccomend?

    Looks like a really fighty list! Any idea what scenarios? That can make a huge difference for KO lists.

    if it’s going to be random my big concern would be the fact that there’s only one mobile unit that can score objectives. Also fast combat armies might be able to get into the big arkanaut turn 1 and smash them up pretty good.

    I’m a fan of the grapnel launcher close combat Endrinriggers. At 1k it will be really tough for your opponent to screen everything and it gives a lot of mobility in a list that otherwise lacks it.

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    Posted

    I’ve been playing a few games with this list that I posted about using in a local tournament a while ago, and had some learnings I wanted to share.

    List:

    Spoiler

     

    Barak-Urbaz. I’ve mostly been playing a 2 frigate Barak Zilfin list, and these were my first games using the 30 man Company unit below.

    Additional Footnotes: There’s no trading with some people & Count battleshock as 1

    ·       2x Khemists (general with Stickler for the Code and the Gryph-Feather Charm, 2nd Khemist with the Dispel artefact)

    ·       30 Dwarf Warriors (almost always deployed in a long screen at the front of the army)

    ·       30 Arkanaut Company

    ·       2x10 Arkanaut Company (usually deployed as a secondary screen)

    ·       12 Endrinriggers w 3 Grapnels

    ·       9 Skywardens

     

    • This is not an alpha strike list! You must play conservatively with the Endrinriggers and Skywardens. They the only units with the mobility to go claim objectives away from your deployment zone, so you need them to stay alive. I think you almost always want to keep them behind a screen until turn 2 or 3. Also, be careful about putting them too far to either end of your warrior screen. Fast units with a good charge roll can sometimes wrap around and get to them.
    • The list (and many KO lists) struggles to deal with enemies that ignore rend. If you go against something like Nighthaunt or monsters with ethereal, you probably should play a little more aggressively with the big Arkanaut unit to get all those pistol shots in range.
    • Terrain & picking sides matter a lot. You want a deployment zone that doesn’t have big pieces of tall or impassible terrain, which can make deploying the big warrior screen difficult and maneuvering the big Arkanaut unit very unwieldy.
    • I’ve decided I like the dispel artifact better than the Earburster. I want my Akanauts shooting at heroes and monsters whenever possible, so I rarely get the most from the Earbuster.
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    1 hour ago, Magister said:

    I'm pretty new but really interested in Kharadron. I keep reading they have problems and I was curious what those are before I jump in. Reading the forum I get the impression they are fragile, have many overpriced units, and their sky boats are too expensive with not enough firepower. Do you expect the General's handbook to fix them significantly?

    I was probably going to wait for the handbook, just wanted to know what I'm sailing into :)

    You got a lot of it right on with the fragile units and boats. KO also really struggle in scenarios where wizards/artifact heroes capture objectives or count as 20 models, since we don't have magic (short of allies), and our heroes are mostly  move 4 & 5 or 6 wound models. And while KO shooting can be devastating, a lot of it has only short or medium range.

    Tough to guess what the next GHB will bring. Some points reductions and maybe some battleline if options could go a long way towards fixing things. I'd love to see all the boats, Skywardens, Admirals, Navigators, and Endrinmasters all drop in cost.

    All that said, they are not in such bad shape for anyone playing casual games, and even in tournaments, I think there are some lists that can do well.

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    Posted · Edited by WatcherintheWater

    @Mordread I think that looks like a fun list!  Personally I like Endrinriggers more than Thunderers, but I know some people have had  good success with both. If you eventually want to make the list stronger, I would pick either one unit of Arkanauts with Skyhooks, the Endrinriggers, or the Thunderers, and increase the size of that unit. That will help you get the most out of your Khemist buff, which works best on big units.

    Since you have two ships, I would recommend trying Barak Zilphin.  That lets you deep strike one of them, and means that they always running 6". If you put your Admiral on a ship they can run and shoot which makes you really mobile. Re-rolling 1s to hit and wound against flyers is also great,  but somewhat situational.

    I know people say that Overlords are in a bad spot, but they are totally fine for casual play. Also, the new General's Handbook comes out sometime in the next few months, which will probably change points for a lot of units.

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    1 hour ago, Reuben Parker said:

    Nice list and games! I think your dice must have been worse then you calmly mention vs Khorne game 1. 4 bloodthirsters is fairly much a dream matchup for KO as they’re terrible points to wounds on 4+ saves no shrugs can’t get look out sir and whips have been nerfed (a salty also Khorne player here ;) as one of my too many armies). 

    Bad positioning by me + bad dice when my Endrinriggers charged one of his Bloodthristers. Usually, 9 buffed Endrinriggers can take out a Bloodthirster in one round, but every once in a while you just whiff on the dice. Especially when you have a weapon with a random damage roll. 

    Even with that, I out killed him. But because I deployed too conservatively, he was able to pin most of my army back out of objective range, I couldn't get enough units onto objectives. I think that's the biggest flaw with a beta strike, no ship KO list like mine, especially in scenarios where all the objectives are in the middle of the board. One alternative would have been to just suicide the Endrinriggers forward on turn 1, and make him deal with them instead of getting to push everything forward. That would cost me a quarter of my army in terms of points, but might be a worthwhile trade to shift where most of the fighting takes place. 

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    18 hours ago, Kramer said:

    Instead of dropping the big squad of arkanauts you could also drop some skywardens in favour of the riggers since you don’t have the dwarf screen in that scenario anyway. Best of both worlds?

    That's probably a better list. I  think you need some sort of screen to protect the big unit of Arkanuats, though. If you put the Endrinriggers, one Khemist, and 10 Arkanauts in the Frigate, you would have the big Arkanaut unit, 1 Khemist, and one 10 man Arkanaut unit really exposed on the board. Fast combat armies can take them out super easy. So maybe you could drop the Skywardens, bump the big Arkanaut unit back up to 30, move one up to 20 to screen the big unit, and put the 10 man unit in the boat.

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    9 hours ago, Kramer said:

    But going from 2 to no frigates. Are you tempted to try a one frigate list? 

    I tried out a list that had a Frigate, Navigator, and Knight-Incantor instead of the Big Arkanaut unit and Warriors, but I didn't love it. Felt like it just didn't have enough punch. If I had enough Endrinriggers painted, I might try dropping the Warriors, and reducing the big Arkanaut unit to 10 in exchange for a Frigate and a unit of 6 Endrinriggers. Then switching to Zilfin and using the deepstrike artifact. I really liked using the 30 Arkanauts to take out heroes, though.

    1 hour ago, FractalRain said:

    One comment I had about the Earbuster is that the trick is to use it after you have shot a unit. 

    That's a good strategy. Might just be the armies I was going against didn't have great targets for it.  I know in certain situations it can be devastating.

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    AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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    Posted

    33 minutes ago, Kramer said:

    Nice write up @WatcherintheWater. Sounds like a fun day out. 

    Can i ask how you equipped your skywardens? I mostly feel they have value as a mobile gun unit. But you seem to have gained the most advantages from them by charging them. 

    Thanks! I gave them all pikes. They stand a little behind the warriors or smaller Arkanaut units, so that when the enemy charges the front unit, they can't strike the skywardens, but with the pile in & 2 inch reach, the wardens can all fight back. Works great defending an objective. Urbaz gives you plenty of khemist buffs to go around, and 3 attacks per model at d3 damage is pretty solid against anything with a save of 4+ or worse.

    Endrinriggers could probably do the same job, since the Arkanauts and Warriors have 25mm bases, but it would be tougher to get all 9 in to fight.

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    AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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    Posted

    I took KO to a 16 player 3 game tournament this last weekend and thought I would share my write up! Sorry for the wall of text :).

    Spoiler

    Tournament points were achieved through the VP gap of your game (between 0 & 5 depending on how much you won or lost the scenario by) and secondary objectives (1 point each, pick 3 per game, no using any twice over the tournament).

    My List: Barak-Urbaz. I’ve mostly been playing a 2 frigate Barak Zilfin list, and these were my first games using the 30 man Company unit below.

    Additional Footnotes: There’s no trading with some people & These are just guidelines

    ·       2x Khemists (general with Stickler for the Code and the Gryph-Feather Charm, 2nd Khemist with the Earburster)

    ·       30 Arkanaut Company

    ·       2x10 Arkanaut Company

    ·       12 Endrinriggers w 3 Grapnels

    ·       9 Skywardens

    ·       30 Dwarf Warriors

    Game 1 (Shifting Objectives)

    Spoiler

     

    Opponent’s List: Blades of Khorne – 4 Bloodthirsters, 20 Bloodletters, 2x5 Flesh Hounds, and 3 Bloodcrushers. The Bloodthirsters were all part of a battalion that let them all attack at the same time in the combat phase, his general had an artifact which let him always fight first in combat, and one had a command ability which lets nearby units pile in and attack from 6” away. Pretty tough combo.

    Deployment: I deployed my warriors in a line across the table at the front of my zine, with the small Company units several inches behind, and then the big Company, Endrinriggers, and Skywardens several inches behind them. He basically spread all his stuff out across his front line.

    Summary: He gave me the first turn. I ran up the warriors to score the big objective, and pushed everything else up behind them. He rushed forward and whipped out my warriors, scoring all the objectives. I won the turn 2 roll, and shot down 2 of his bloodletters, and got the buffed Endrinriggers into a 3rd. Unfortunately, they rolled poorly and didn’t kill it, although they again scored the big objective. He took them out in his turn, left a couple units guarding the objectives, and got some charges into my smaller Company units, destroying one. I won the turn 3 roll, but was pinned back to far now to really challenge the objectives. I shot off one of his remaining Bloodthirsters, and the Skywardens charged and took care of the other, also scoring the big objective. The rest of the game was just him using some Blood Tithe to summon, and me shooting at his remaining units. I think the only starting unit he had left was a half strength unit of Bloodletters, but by pinning me so far back to start, he was able to win solidly on objectives. We both got 2 of our 3 secondaries. Final tournament point score: 7-2 loss.

    What I could have done better:

    ·       I really messed up deployment in this game. I knew he would have the choice of who went first in round 1, and if he took the turn, I was worried that he could get his Bloodthirsters into 6” pile in range, and through multiple activations, kill the warriors, and get into my Arkanauts. In retrospect, at 24” apart, there was only one Bloodthirster fast enough to have a chance of making it, so I should have placed my Arkanauts much further forward, so that if he gave me the turn (which he did), I could fire my skyhooks.

    ·       Similarly, I should probably have been more aggressive in pushing forward my other units on 1 to try and get some of the smaller Arkanauts into objective scoring range. I could have scored more in round 1, but also would have kept the bulk of my army closer to scoring range later in the game.

    Game 2 (Total Conquest)

    Spoiler

    Opponent’s List: Khorne – 2 priests, 1 Bloodthirster, 1 small demon hero (Skulltaker?), 30 Bloodletters, 2 x 5 Flesh Hounds with the Flesh Hound hero, both Khorne Shadespire warbands, a battalion, and a bunch of the Khorne Judgements.

    Deployment: I put my Warriors on my right, in a big blob around one objective, with the Endrinriggers behind them. Big Company in the middle, with the Khemist between them and the Endrinriggers. Small Companies on the left, with the Skywardens and Khemist behind them. He put the bulk of his army on my left, a smaller force in the middle, and just 5 Flesh Hounds and one of his Shadespire warbands on my right.

    Summary: I gave him the turn and he pushed forward with pretty much everything, but nothing was in charge range. In my half of the turn I opened up with shooting and took out his Bloodthirster, and one Priest, and the Endrinriggers took one of his objectives. I won the turn 2 roll, shot some more stuff, and charged the Endrinriggers into another group of his units, but they were unbuffed, and bit off more than they could chew. He finally got to charge my small Companies with the Bloodletters in his turn, but the Skywardens did a bunch of damage back. He also killed the Endrinriggers. He won the turn 3 roll, and moved over to capture the objective that the Endrinriggers took turn 1, but in my half of the turn the Warriors got a run roll of 5 to capture it back. Game ended due to time after turn 3. I was up by 4 on objectives, and got 2 secondaries, while he got 1. Final tournament point score: 6-2 win.

    What I could have done better:

    ·       My opponent was a relatively new player, so we took things pretty easy and slow. I do need to remember to be more conservative with unbuffed Endrinriggers, though.

    Game 3 (Starfall)

    Spoiler

     

    Opponent’s List: Tallyband of Nurgle – Great Unclean One, Poxbringer, 3x30 Plaguebearers, 3 Plague Drones, 3 Nurglings, and the Tallyband of Nurgle Battalion (heals wounds & regrows d3 Plaguebearers in each unit each turn).

    Deployment: I deployed in 2 spread out lines. Front line: Warriors, 2nd line: (left to right) Skywardens, 10 man Companies, big Company, Endrinriggers, with the Khemists interspersed behind. He weighted his deployment to the center and my right. Plaguebearer blobs in front, with the heroes and Drones behind.

    Summary: He took turn 1 and pushed forward, and the Nurglings popped up to my left. I pushed forward too, and shot off a drone and Nurgling, but didn’t charge. He won every priority roll from here on. Turn 2, the middle objective came down on my right. He moved one blob over to sit on it, and charged his middle blob into my warriors (who were debuffed by a Nurgle spell). Those two units slapped at each other for the rest of the game. In my turn, I focused fire at the Plaguebearers on the objective, got them below 20, and then charged in with my Endrinriggers, taking them down to 2 left, and scoring the objective to tie the game.

    In turn 3 both remaining objectives came down in the middle. He summoned 10 new Plaguebearers to screen my Endrinriggers from flying to his objective, and charged his remaining drones into them. Endrinriggers killed the remaining Plaguebearers and one drone. He only scored his objective. In my turn, I used the Urbaz hero phase attack with the Endrinriggers to clear the last drone, shot off his Poxbringer, and some of the middle Plaguebearers, charged the Skywardens into that middle combat, and took that Plaguebearer unit down to just a handful left, and the Endrinriggers charged and took out his summoned Plaguebearers. He had cast a spell that didn’t let me get far enough to take his objective, so I scored 2 of the 3. There were less than 10 minutes left, so we stopped. I scored 2 of my secondaries and he got 1. Final tournament point score: 5-3.

    What I could have done better:

    ·       Really fun game. We played slow and chatted quite a bit, and both our armies had a high model count, so the game only went 3 turns. Had we played the full game, I would have maxed out my score. There’s a learning for me. I need to play faster with the higher model count army.

    ·       I did an OK job with focus fire, but that’s key against Plaguebearers or healing armies. -2 to hit is tough, so I should have just completely ignored the big units until I was ready to fully go after them, and just made sure my skyhooks could shoot heroes and drones.

    Final thoughts:

    Spoiler

    ·       2 wins and 1 losses. I ended up 7th out of 16.

    ·       The list was really fun to play! I was worried that because of the powerful shooting every game would just be determined by the turn 2 priority roll, or that it might be boring for my opponents to play against, but it didn’t really play out that way.

    ·       Compared to the 2 frigate list, this has much more firepower, and is more durable (it has twice as many models). The list has 24 skyhooks shots, and well over 100 pistol shots, which can really do some work. The Warriors are a great screen, and the big Company survived every single game. However, you do lose some mobility, which makes games where objectives are in the middle of the board tougher. Also, without the ships, I was at 8 drops, so your opponent gets to pick who goes first most of the time, so you need to deploy in a way that is defensive, but keeps the skyhooks within 28” of priority targets for turn 1.

    ·       The Urbaz footnote, to shoot or fight in the hero phase once per game, is great. If you go against an enemy that doesn’t have 3” melee attacks, you can position the big AC unit so that they are safe from getting hit in combat, but within 3” of a charging enemy. Just make sure that you actually want to shoot at whatever charges there, since you won’t’ have a choice.

    ·       I’m not actually seeing that much use from the Earburster. You want to keep your Khemists away from the action, so a lot of times they aren’t in range, and many armies have high bravery, or battleshock immunity options. I’ll probably switch it out for the KO items that gives a dispel.

    ·       These are just guidelines is also sort of weak. I tried to use it twice, and each time rolled the exact same guideline Barak Urbaz gets by default. I’ll probably swap it out for the battleshock roll of 1 footnote next time.

     

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    AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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    Posted · Edited by WatcherintheWater

    Hey everyone. I took my KO to a local 3 game tournament last weekend, and thought I would post my way to long reports here. 

    Spoiler

     

    Tournament points were achieved through the VP gap of your game (between 0 & 5 depending on how much you won or lost the scenario by) and secondary objectives (1 point each, pick 3 per game, no using any twice over the tournament).

    My List: Barak-Zilfin

    Additional Footnotes: There’s no trading with some people & These are just guidelines

    ·       2x Khemists (general with Stickler for the Code and the Gryph-Feather Charm)

    ·       3x10 Arkanaut Company

    ·       12 Endrinriggers w 3 Grapnels

    ·       9 Skywardens

    ·       2 Frigates (one with the deepstrike artifact)

     

    Game 1 (Arcane Power)

    Spoiler

     

    Opponent’s List: Sacrosanct Chamber Stormcast – Surehart, 2x10 Evocators, 2x5 Sequitors, 1x20 Sequitors, Lord Arcanum on Gryph Charger (General), & a Lord-Castellant

    Deployment: I put one unit of Arkanauts across from the left objective, one frigate with Arkanauts across from the middle, and everything else in the sky. He put one unit of 5 Sequitors across from each of the side objectives, and his general and Castellant wrapped in the big Sequitor unit across from the middle. Everything else in the sky.

    Summary: We did random rolls for scenarios, so I wrote my list just sort of hoping this one wouldn’t come up. Since I had only the one hero that could score while he had two big units of Evocators and two heroes, I decided to mostly focus on getting my 3 secondaries (kill his general, move 2 units off his board edge, no enemy units in my deployment zone at game end) and taking out his scoring units instead of trying to score myself.

    I gave him the turn and he slightly moved up most of his stuff, while trying to limit the area I could drop into. He brought down one unit of Evocators on the right objective to start scoring. I decided I couldn’t wait, so I dropped my boat behind his lines, but only had room to unload my Endrinriggers and one Khemist. They shot off the Castellant, grappeled, and tried to charge his general (need a 9 I think), but failed. He won priority, dropped Surehart and the last evocator unit 9 away from my Endrinriggers, and charged me. The Endrinriggers and Evocators wiped each other out, while the Sequitors took the frigate to about half wounds. His general ran away onto the middle objective. On my turn, I fled combat with the frigate, hoping to win the double turn so I could unload my guys, and shot off his General with some Arkanuats and the other frigate. Unfortunately, he won the turn 3 roll, and surrounded and killed my boat, also taking out the Skywardens, arkanuats, and general Khemist that were still embarked. On my turn, I fled my 2nd boat off the board to score that objective.

    Think we played one more turn but not much happened. 11-0 score for the scenario (the surviving unit of evocators scored 10 of his points), gave him max points, and we both scored all our secondaries. 8-3 to him in tournament points.

    What I could have done better:

    ·       This scenario was always going to be tough, so I think I did OK to get the secondaries and put myself in a spot where if I won turn 3 priority I could have kept it close. It probably would have been 5-5 for TPs if I had won that roll. The main lesson is if you go to a tournament where you know this will be one of the scenarios, you really need to get at least one more scoring unit in the list.

    ·       When my Endrinriggers failed the turn 8 charge into his general, I should have just charged the big Sequitors unit. It would probably have prevented him from surrounding my boat on turn 2, and because they were so strung out, I don’t think they would have killed more than a few back.

     

    Game 2 (Battle for the Pass)

    Spoiler

     

    Opponent’s List: Flesh Eater Courts – 3 Vampires on Terrorgiests (General had an ability which let him go first in every combat phase), 2 Infernal Courtiers, 3x10 Ghouls, 2 command points starting.

    Deployment: Unit of Arkanauts on my back objective, Frigate with Endrinriggers, 10 Arkanauts, one Khemist, and Endrinriggers in the sky, other frigate with everything else on the board, slightly to my left. He put his Courtiers towards the back by the new FEC throne, monsters spread across the front of his deployment, and ghouls spread out in his backfield blocking out my drop opportunities.

    Summary: I gave him turn 1. He moved up his monsters, keeping the one opposite my only ship on the board a little further back. Ghouls shuffled around to block out my deepstrike from getting behind him. Then everything summoned, and he brought on 5 new units all in my backfield! On my turn, I dropped the boat from the sky near the right objective. There was enough LOS blocking terrain that I couldn’t get the most out of my shooting phase, but I did wounds to the 2 nearest Terrorgiests. The Endrinriggers charged the one on the right objective and took it out. I sent the Skywardens backwards to take out 20 summoned ghouls.

    He won turn 2, and his general charged and ate all my Endrinriggers. The summoned units swarmed towards my back objective, but only one made the charge, so I held it. On my turn, the Skywardens turned around back towards the main fight, I shot off some of the summoned units, and one frigate moved up to capture the left objective. He won turn 3, which basically sealed it. Terrorgiests ate and screamed at a bunch of Arkanauts and one frigate. On my turn the Skywardens took out his 2nd non-general Terrorgiest, but got killed by summoned Crypt Horrors in return. Turn 4 was just him sitting on some objectives to get the max scenario score, and me shooting off his general. Scenario when to him 21-9, he got all his secondary objectives, and I got 2 of my 3, so the Tournament score was 8-2 him.

    What I could have done better:

    ·       I didn’t realize his summoning could happen on any table edge. I should have deployed to better react/block that.

    ·       When I deepstruck my boat, I should have picked a spot where I could disembark, and shoot everything at one Terrorgiest, and send the Endrinriggers into the other instead of splitting my fire. Decent chance I could get two in one turn that way.

    ·       Sometimes I just let my opponent go first on turn 1 by default, since a double turn can be so devastating with KO, but here it probably made sense to go first, deep strike with as much as I can, and try to take out 2 of his monsters. That would have made him pick between dealing with my units in his table half or pushing forward towards objectives. Also, it would reduce the amount of summons he could make. That’s a lesson for next time when going against the FEC.

     

     

     

    Game 3 (Relocation Orb)

    Spoiler

     

    Opponent’s List: Gitmob Trolls – Dankhold Troggboss, Troll Hag, Goblin Shaman, 20 Goblin Shootas, 2x3 Fellwater Troggoths, 3 Dankhold Troggoths, and some endless spells

    Deployment: He basically put everything bunched together as near as possible to the objective start point. I put one boat with Arkanauts, a Khemist and the Skywardens on my side near board center, and one unit of Arkanauts on board middle, to my right. Everything else went on the frigate in the sky.

    Summary: I gave him turn 1, and he pushed forward, getting the Hag on the objective, scoring 1. On my turn, I piled out of my frigate that was already on the board, and shot off the Hag. The buffed Skywardens charged one of his Dankhold Trolls, but flubbed their rolls and got beat up in return. I got onto the objective and scored 3, though. The orb bounced one to my right, towards my Arkanauts on that side. He was able to teleport a unit of goblins into objective range with a spell, so he scored his point, but everything else was pretty far away from the objective now. He also finished off my Skywardens. I dropped my ship, and shot off most of his goblins, but still needed to make a charge with something, since the Endrinriggers failed their grapple accuracy. Fortunately, the Arkanauts made it in, giving me the objective.

    The orb then did a double bounce, moving to a favorable spot for me. He forced me to take the turn, so I strung my stuff out to block him from getting where he heeded, and took 1 point. However, on his turn he teleported his goblin shaman (counts as 20 models for claiming objectives), and got the 9” charge into my frigate, cutting my lead to 7-5. He won the turn 4 roll, and made me go first again. I killed his shaman, and reinforced my barrier. He was only able to get one unit of river trolls into objective range, by getting a long charge on my Endrinriggers. They killed 7 riggers, but got killed in return. Everything else charged my Arkanaut and Frigate wall. They took out one unit of Arkanauts, and heavily damaged the Frigate. Now 8-5 me. The orb took a small bounce, and he won priority, making me go first. I shuffled my stuff around and scored a point. He maneuvered his general (who had an artifact) a spot where a 12” charge would get on the objective, but failed. 9-5 final, we both scored 2 of our 3 secondaries, tournament score of 5-4 to me.

    What I could have done better:

    ·       I should have anticipated his goblin teleport on turn 3. I could have forced him to charge the Endrinriggers instead of the frigate, and they could have taken out the shaman easily.

    ·       Probably no need to charge my Skywardens into his Dankhold on turn 1. Even if they killed him, they would have been taken down in turn 2, and their mobility isn’t worth that trade in this scenario.

     

     

     

    Final thoughts:

    Spoiler

     

    ·       1 win and 2 losses. I ended up finish 5th out of 6. I only won 1 of 10 priority rolls over the 3 games, so a little bit of bad luck there. If I had won either the turn 2 or 3 rolls in the FEC game, I’m pretty confident I could have at least held that game to a draw, and also could have made the first game pretty close.

    ·       I think the list needs a 3rd hard hitting unit. If I had the models I would drop one Frigate, and add another 6 Endrinriggers. The other option would be to bump one of the Arkanaut units up to 30 with Skyhooks, but at that point you have sacrificed a good bit of mobility.

    ·       The unit of 12 Endrinriggers is overkill in a lot of situations. Reducing to 9 would be another way to find points.

     

     

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    AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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    Posted

    2 hours ago, Ruchnar said:

    I have been thinking about that list I posted the other day and finally I have come to this:

     

    Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
    Mortal Realm: Ghur

    Skyport: Barak-Mhornar
    - Additional Footnote: There's No Trading With Some People

    Leaders
    Knight-Incantor (140)
    - Allies
    Aether-Khemist (160)
    - General
    - Trait: Opportunistic Privateers 
    - Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
    Aether-Khemist (160)

    Battleline
    10 x Arkanaut Company (120)
    - 3x Light Skyhooks
    10 x Arkanaut Company (120)
    - 3x Light Skyhooks
    40 x Arkanaut Company (480)
    - 12x Light Skyhooks

    Units
    5 x Evocators (200)
    - 5x Grandstaves
    - Allies
    9 x Endrinriggers (360)
    - 3x Aethermatic Volley Guns
    - 3x Drill Cannons

    Total: 1740 / 1750
    Extra Command Points: 0
    Allies: 340 / 400
    Wounds: 108


    This is definetly a totally different list from the other day but I think, that Mhornar will help me way better than Zifilin against DoK. 
    Also, now I have:
    + wizzards 
    +bigger blob of Arkanauts
    + another hero
    + bigger unit of endrinriggers
    - no deepstrike 
    - no ships!

    And, if I'm not wrong, I can use the "Who strikes first, strikes hardest" ability on the evocators too. 
    I still got some time until friday to play with this list but I'm pretty happy about this one so far. 
     

    Looks like a good list! The big skyhook unit, the Endrinriggers, and the Evocators should provide a good bit of punch. Personally, I prefer the Endrinriggers as a combat unit, instead of shooting, but think they can work either way. Try to keep them out of charge range as much as you can, since they are really your only mobile unit for scoring objectives.

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    Posted

    20 hours ago, DavionStar said:

    What ally units could we bring in to fill in the gaps in defence? Vulkite Berserkers with sling shields? Ironbreakers? Maybe Stormcast Liberators or Protectors?

    I've seen a couple of places that suggest using Lord-Ordinators to help the boats/flying metal bawkses.

    Also, since this has been a point of confusion. What do we lose from not having a full KO army? Other than most if not all of our buffs are for Skyfarers only?

    I like allying in a Knight-Incantor for some magic. She gives you a once per game automatic dispel, and the spirit flasks are a good way to add some mortal wounds. Also, if you play one of the scenarios where wizards & artifact of power equipped heroes capture objectives (or get bonuses to capturing) it really pays to have some extra scoring.

    A big unit of 40 Dispossessed warriors can be good too. Generally KO are pretty low model count, so that's a good way to make up for it. They're really good objective campers with a 5+ re-rollable save if they don't run and a banner that lets them half the number of models lost to battleshock. If you are going against an alpha strike army that gets to go first, you can use all those bodies to bubble wrap your more valuable units. Ironbreakers would probably work too, but you get half the models for the price as a trade for better saves. 

    Your non-KO units don't get to benefit from skyport/allegiance abilities, but they don't make the rest of your army lose any thing as long as allies stay below 20% of your total points.

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    AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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    Posted

    Has anyone tried a full on Endrinrigger spam list? Something like:

    2x Khemists

    3x10 Company

    3x9 Endrinriggers

    1x6 Endrinriggers.

    I thought of it when I saw a Deepkin list that was basically all eels and heroes. Would be boring to paint, but I think it could do pretty well with Urbaz or you could drop 6 Endrinriggers for a Frigate and go Zilphin for some deep strike. Might even work as tempests eye with a lot of 16" moves turn 1.

     

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