Grimrock
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Posts posted by Grimrock
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I do think it's a little funny to see people hating on daemonettes in one breath and the saying that we struggle vs hordes with the next. That's what daemonettes are there for. Give them reroll ones and they'll blender almost any horde unit out there. Seriously, per activation daemonettes with reroll 1s unit puts out about 30 rend 1 wounds. If that's somehow not enough, just activate them twice. They have an absolutely insane damage output for a battleline unit.
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3 hours ago, Dead Scribe said:
I don't think GW needs to put their foot down about this. It makes terrain a tactical option to bring in your list. Yes, like army lists which we optimize, so too would we optimize our terrain loadout.
But that is just adding choices into the game, and I don't see how thats a bad thing.
I think one problem is that optimizing terrain turns it into not terrain. In a competitive environment it could easily turn into people bringing styrofoam bricks that match the exact maximum size, or a shape that suits their army. For example a player using archaon could bring 3 sheets with the maximum vertical/horizontal dimensions intending to block LoS as the big guy moves up the field. Optimal to protect your 660 point investment and doesn't take up a lot of space, but they would look awful on the table. Personal preference I guess, but one thing I learned playing warmachine for a few years is nice looking terrain is a big deal.
I guess we'll see though, if these rules don't become the norm for tournaments then I doubt people will go through the hassle of building competitive 'terrain' suited for their army. Or buy 3 sets of masoleums/woods for that matter.
Edit: does anyone remember the big snafu a while back where a GW game designer brought their own terrain to a tournament that was perfectly built for their nighthaunt army? It was beautiful terrain, but it felt gamey because it was a massive hindrance to any army that didn't have flight since it was super tall and wide. I'm thinking that kind of thing, but nowhere near as pretty. Actually now that I think about it, I wonder if that's where these rules came from haha.
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46 minutes ago, Xasto said:
I meant am I missing something special to get the most value out of their kits. The way I see it tho they're pretty straightforward with banners and musicians. Was just wondering!
As for the chariots, they will primarily be used for summoning purposes. Is one of them generally seen as superior for summoning or is it more of a depends on the situation thing?
Thanks for your answers!
The only trick to the daemonettes and seekers is to add the second banner/icon to the unit since they can take both at the minimum size. Oh, and all the bits are pretty interchangeable between the different kits so feel free to swap heads and claws for a little variety. It helps when you're building 30+ daemonettes haha.
For the chariot my favourite is the bladebringer on exalted chariot. More points to summon but it's damage is crazy good. I also made a viceleader with the extra Herald model and some claws off the seeker sprue. Just shaved one shoulder to roughly match the pose of the resin model.
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1 hour ago, TheHarrower said:
Thinking about running Archaon in a Reapers of Vengeance list. Quick question. Does Archaon self reroll 1s to hit because of our traits?
Yup, same as any other khorne daemon hero.
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Easiest answer is blades of khorne isn't meant to be a summoning army. It's there as an option if it's needed, but generally they don't seemed to be designed around it like tzeentch or hedonites. The main allegiance ability is meant to be the abilities from the tithe table.
Makes sense if you think about the background, Khorne doesn't just throw daemons around to save his followers. He makes them work for everything and murder needs to be their primary focus, not summoning.
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2 hours ago, Towenaar said:
Damn I can't believe they dropped the points on Bloodthirsters, do GW just want me to buy Skarbrand and x3 Bloodthirsters and be done with it?
Of course they do, and for added convenience they added 30% to the real life price tag at the same time.
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Realm of beasts for me, I like the thought of a world dominated by massive beasts around every corner. Great fantasy concept and scratches that kaiju itch.
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4 minutes ago, Overread said:
It's true you do need to varnish, even GW admits this is the case and its why they paired the launch with brush-on varnish options as well. It does add another stage, but it protects the models and helps avoid the paint rubbing off. Even regular paints would take wear and tear just not "as fast" so really varnishing is something any active gamer should learn and do when it comes to putting painted models on the table.
That's really unfortunate. I've been wargaming for almost 20 years and I've never had a need to varnish plastic models. Pewter maybe, but even then it was usually good enough to have a decent carrying case and just avoid having them rub together. Plus I've never liked how they change the finish on a model I've spent so much time getting just right.
Thanks for the response though!
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Quick question for people that have had a chance to use their painted models, are the reports that the paint rubs off during play true? I've been thinking of picking some of the paints up for a new project but if I have to varnish everything after painting I'll probably pass.
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The changehost rule is terribly written and one of the most ambiguous rules out there, and trying to argue for one interpretation over the other really is pointless. There's no indication of what the devs meant by 'swap' and there's no indication of when a unit can or can't swap. If you want to artificially limit yourself because you think it's too strong then go for it, but there won't be a unified interpretation until GW cleans the rule up.
Personally I would think that if the devs wanted it to be impossible for a large base to swap with a unit, which is a fairly common use case for the rule, they would have called it out specifically. Since they didn't I just try to swap as close to center as possible and leave it at that. Easy, quick, and no one has ever had a problem with it in my games.
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7 hours ago, Lightbox said:
So I'm wanting to make a list around archaon because he's big and pretty!
I know he's supposed to be pretty fun in khorne because of all the buffs but as someone still not 100% familiar with all the khorne heroes (the khorne players I've played against usually go light on buffing) I'm not sure exactly what I should go with list wise to take with him. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
I'm guessing a bloodstoker & bloodsecrator are musts for the +1 attack and reroll wounds. Possibly an aspiring deathbringer for the +1attack command ability? But that would be difficult keeping him in the same combat as archy. I'm guessing though that lord on juggernaught could be good for his command ability to give a bonus on the charge? I haven't listed any demon examples because I really don't know them well yet.
I've tried the thermal rider cloak on the aspiring deathbringer to keep up with archaon, but I found it unnecessary as you're better off spending the command point to attack twice. Otherwise like Xasz said you'll want to take slaughterpriests for bronzed flesh and killing frenzy. Killing frenzy is gold on him since, when combined with the locus, he basically gets pure rerolls to hit. Wrathmongers are another consideration but really they should be in any list anyway.
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1 hour ago, swarmofseals said:
Yeah, that's what I was trying to communicate with the whole "you need more units in combat than your enemy has" in order to exhaust is activations.
Oh, haha sorry I missed that in the disadvantages. Glazed right over it.
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12 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:
Quick question -- what is the current conventional wisdom regarding the best sequence breaking Bloodthirster build? The way I see it there are two ways to do it:
1. Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury in any Slaughterhost (probably Reapers), moves between 3.1" and 6" of the enemy so that they can't activate, wait until opponent has exhausted all legal activations and then choose this to pile in and attack.
- Advantages: you can strap on a useful artefact to either increase combat punch or provide extra mobility. You get access to the strike twice command ability, which is really powerful. You can completely prevent any "strikes at the start of the combat phase" unit from attacking altogether during your turn.
- Disadvantages: Much more awkward to use against units that don't strike at the start of the combat phase, as you will need more total units in combat than your opponent in order to fully bypass your target's attacks. It also isn't likely to work during your opponent's turn at all unless they make a mistake.
2. Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage in Bloodlords, artefact gives always strike first.
- Advantages: Strikes first on the opponent's turn except against models that strike at the start of the combat phase. Insensate Rage is probably better in combat at baseline.
- Doesn't wholly prevent enemy strike-first models from attacking. Artefact slot is taken up and no double strike command ability.
For sequence breaking I think the unfettered is your best bet, however I don't think you can just hold it until your opponent is done unless you also have other units to pile in. Since your bloodthirster is eligible to pile in you have to activate him when there are no remaining units on your side. Also if your target survives, and hasn't activated yet, they'll be able to activate after you attack since they weren't eligible before but now are since you are within 3. Not likely to happen with two rounds of bloodthirster attacks, but something to keep in mind.
You could also toss on a doppleganger cloak to protect you for one of your opponents turns.
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I think the corruptor is solid, but I don't think I'd take the vortex with him. It's busted in the Skaven allegiance because of gnawholes and greyseer buffs, but casting it on a natural 8 in nurgle is too unreliable.
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2 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:
Well gravesites aren't terrain so they are unaffected by the setup rules for terrain. Other then that.. I think its pretty basic restrictions. Nothing on the board edges (gnaw holes will get faq'd) nothing near an objective, or another piece of terrain. Its not that restrictive IMO. How is it fair for a gitz player to drop that big fething loonshine right on top of an objective and block me from being able to get models on top of it?
For gravesites I meant that a death player can bring 3 mausoleums for their 3 large terrain pieces, which count as gravesites in addition to their usual 4. So 7 total, and the mausoleums are extremely hard to to block off to prevent summoning unlike the usual gravesites.
I get the idea of managing how terrain is placed and it makes sense that they wanted to add some rules for it. I'm sure they want people buying terrain to make the games look more exciting, but turning table setup into a competitive phase just means tables are going to look worse not better.
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1 hour ago, sal4m4nd3r said:
Whats so agregious other then it totally effs with faction specific terrain.. which will ASSUREDLY be faq'd?
Well that and it sets up every death player to have 3, absolutely massive and almost unlockable, extra gravesites.
Essentially it turns the terrain setup into a new competitive phase of the game where people try to work for advantage. Players can bring terrain that does something beneficial for their army like block LoS, or obstruct movement to give an extra turn of shooting. Or they'll just toss it in the corner and ignore it all game. In theory it seems fine, but I'd rather have a nice looking table set up without bias that give interesting tactical challenges instead. No clue how the rules as is made it into the game.
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I've used Archaon a fair bit, and one thing you absolutely can't do is ignore buffs on him. They're the whole reason for him to be 660 points... Having access to all 4 chaos god keywords as well as mortal and daemon opens him up for every possible buff in those factions and allows you to do some crazy things. If you can't put buffs on him, then I absolutely agree that there's no reason to take him. Which, ironically, makes him totally useless in everchosen.
The baseline quality of his stats means he combines with buffs extremely well in ways that a basic unit or behemoth just can't. 4 attack profiles, lots of multiple damage, lots of wounds and a good base save mean any buff is huge. Khorne does it best and if you're building your army for him then you can make him an absolute wrecking ball.
The slayer of kings can absolutely be worth building for as well. In a regular game the ability is essentially useless, but anything that can make it proc can turn it into a game winning ability. In Tzeentch I've won because of a spell buff and destiny dice that deleted multiple behemoths.
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10 hours ago, Sleboda said:
Really? I agree with the built of what you're saying, but not this. They are better, by a mile, at fighting and stopping magic than the book for the god of fighting and stopping magic.
Something went very wrong there.
Oh come on, I know you're making it your mission to complain about Khorne at every given opportunity but you can't honestly say that Slaanesh is better at stopping magic than Khorne is. Khorne has the skulls, the bloodsecrator, the altar, a hilarious number of unbinds and dispels, a host that specifically targets magic, and multiple ways to get bonuses to dispel. Slaanesh has the enrapturess, rerolls from the epitome and... what, a couple wizards? If you're going to complain about the problems in the Khorne book, try complaining about things that are actually a problem. Khorne is devastating against magic.
On another note, I'm really looking forward to this book. The point changes are small, but they're breathing some life into stuff that I haven't been able to play in a long time. I'm really curious to get a look at the scenarios as well, there's a lot that could've been cleaned up in the last GHB and I'm specifically hoping they added some clear measurements to the more vague layouts.
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5 hours ago, Pestilens said:
I will try the following list tomorrow:
Loc
Gaunt summoner
Blu scribes
3x10 pink horror
3x30 blu horror
1x10 brimstone
Pendolum, spell portal, purple son.
Lots of spell and shooting, and huge summoning from horrors. What do u think?
Well, looks like it's well above 2000 points, but in not sure what you were aiming for. Otherwise it looks like an absolute mountain of bodies so that should be fun.
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Has anyone tried out the new point costs in a daemon focused list yet? I built a simple changehost with a LoC, scribes, gaunt summoner, 3 pinks, 2 flamers, screamers, blues, a portal and the pendulum. Quite a bit cheaper than 2018 and seems like it could have some potential if you're willing to buy enough blues/brims to take advantage of the piles of summoning generated by 3 pinks.
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42 minutes ago, JPjr said:
Is it even that expensive?! I mean sure, objectively speaking from the point of view of someone outside the game looking in, then yeah maybe.
But from the inside? €70 for a book, a pretty chunky and intricate piece of terrain and 4 endless spells, 2 of which are pretty massive isn't too bad when for the exact same price I'd get just Skraggrot, a Loonboss on foot and the Fungoid Cave Shaman for my Gloomspite army. 3 models that I guess if you're looking for silver lining at least aren't contributing that much to the disgusting amount of unnecessary plastic that we're destroying this planet with.
Well the sheer quantity of plastic or number of models are only a minor factor when considering worth. Sure it's 4 endless spells, terrain, and a book, but if I never use 2 of the spells and the terrain then they essentially don't exist in the box. Or worse, they simply exist to waste my time assembling and painting them. I was burned by malign portents and the 8 or so spells I'll never ever use, so I'm a lot more cautious about buying endless spell stuff now.
At that price it also competes with things like start collecting boxes which have a far better value and consistent usability.
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I'm actually really happy that this release isn't on the level of malign sorceries. New players don't need yet another thing they have to buy to be able to put together a viable competitive army and I know I didn't want to feel handicapped just because I didn't want to spend over $100 on a couple spells. I think a release primarily focused on narrative play is great, even if it means that I don't have much incentive to pick it up. Good call on GW's part imho.
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39 minutes ago, blubearbare said:
What r people typically summoning in with there depravity points. Should I be focusing on 30 demonettes and KoS?
I usually find I end up summoning heroes that have died recently. Other than that it's been Seekers to grab objectives or Fiends/Daemonettes for some extra punch.
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5 hours ago, ByronicHero said:
Hi.
New STD player who is focusing on playing within the Nurgle shell first.
I have a question with regards to summoning:
Do you tend to find it is worth summoning additional terrain / small units early on or just waiting and getting something mid game to contest an objective? I am thinking of grabbing the SC for summonable demons and a couple of Maws?
Personally the majority of my summoning consists of an early tree to help with a tricky run/charge, or putting down a small unit on objectives. I've never needed more than two tree unless I'm running horticulus. Other than that picking up a start collecting box is a solid choice for summoning and has all you'll really need unless you really want some extra plaguebearers just in case.
AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion
in Hedonites of Slaanesh
Posted
For sure, but you're also paying the points for the batallion and swapping out a hero that does work for the support shaman. The herd is awesome, don't get me wrong, but if people think there's nothing that pure hedonites can do against hordes then they're mistaken.
But they were never just an average unit, they were always one of the best battleline units in the game. The wrath and rapture buff was absolutely bizarre considering how good they were before it. I get that the perception of value drops when a unit gets nerfed, and a double nerf makes that even worse, but daemonettes are far from average. With no support at all they still average 25 rend 1 wounds! Most armies would kill for something that good.