Grimrock
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Posts posted by Grimrock
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25 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said:
At a guess at what the designers were thinking is that it creates a narrative in the game where you have a race to kill the scriptor before judgement is called. Not knowing points and how tough a scriptor is to kill but I don’t think this is all that bad. I think most armies have a way of getting to one of these by turn 3.
'Most' is the key word there unfortunately. I play a lot of chaos and I can confidently say that if the nighthaunt player hides their character well then Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh, and Slaves to Darkness will all struggle to kill the model before the end of the game. It's not impossible, but it isn't trivial either.
I don't think the rule is broken in a competitive sense as it's way too random to be relied on, doesn't affect death armies at all so it's just wasted points there, and against ranged heavy armies he's just going to get sniped out ASAP. It's just one of those rules that'll suck if you ever get on the wrong side of it. Losing a lynchpin support hero turn 2 with 0 interaction because your opponent double turned and then rolled a 1 is just going to suck so much. Like re-rack and start over suck. On the other hand for the nighthaunt player paying for this new model, naming a character, and then never triggering the ability all game because you keep rolling 6's is going to suck just as much. I guess my hope is that everyone sees the issues and I never actually encounter it on the table.
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8 hours ago, Charleston said:
Sorry but from the battletome itself there is no single mention that anyone of them is a daemon prince if I recall correctly.
Valkia was "just" a mortal who Khorne was impressed by, some lore snippets sounds even like he has a serious crush for her. Each time she dies Khorne deems her worthy of resurrection, any by this he twisted her body.
Pretty sure you're right about Skarr, but not Valkia. In her background in the current tome it says that Khorne resurrected her as a 'Daemon Queen'. No idea if that's any different from a prince, but definitely an ascension. The fact that the background says that and she's never had the Daemon keyword has driven me to write the FAQ team multiple times haha. They specifically said that it isn't included for balance reasons in the FAQ, but honestly I have no idea what mystical corner case they're trying to avoid. I mean her being able to re-roll 1's to hit would obviously be soooooo broken right?
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3 hours ago, Kadeton said:
I guess this is the de-facto topic for discussion of the battlescroll? It feels like the title sets things up for a very negative discussion, but oh well. I'll be a somewhat dissenting voice, I suppose.
I broadly agree that this doesn't do much to address the weaknesses of the worst-performing armies in the game. (And it manages to miss Khorne, Kharadrons and Flesh-Eaters off the list of losers, which is a bit of a worry. Khorne in particular seems to be a huge blind spot for GW.) However, I don't think it was really intended to, the whole prime hunters aspect feels very much like an afterthought. I guess I had no expectations that bottom-tier armies would see any major shake-ups outside of updated battletomes anyway.
Where I think this is an interesting change is in how it affects list choices at the top of the meta - addressing "problem" units not by adding cost, but by adding risk. That's a novel idea, and I'm curious to see how well it works.
This approach also seems far more flexible and responsive than changing points. With any given points change, people have to shuffle around what units are in their army, and some builds will just become impossible to fit in the points limit. Even minor changes to points have knock-on effects which cause major disruption, so they have to be carefully considered. The risk of giving up some extra VPs is a far gentler pressure. Adding or removing a unit from this list can be done trivially without breaking anyone's existing army, so it becomes a simple trigger of "We're seeing this unit on the top tables too often, make it a priority target."
And when the next "top meta" unit emerges to take advantage (e.g. I see a lot of speculation about Sentinels coming back)? Next battlescroll, they go on the list. Quick, clean, simple.
In terms of helping the worst factions, we're clearly not there yet, but I think there's potential there too. For instance, everything currently has a reward value of 1 or more, but there's no reason they couldn't add units as priority targets with a reward of 0 - denying them the bonus points from killing other priority targets without giving up any of their own, but also giving up bonus VP to any of the prime hunter factions. I'm interested to see how this idea evolves over time.
I agree with most of your points in theory. This could be an interesting kind of 'soft nerf' to over performing units without the feel bad of 'max 1 unit per army' or a huge points hike. The main problem I see is I think you're putting a little too much faith in GW to evolve and grow the concept. It just doesn't seem to be the way they work with AoS these days. Like you said they already missed some glaringly obvious choices like making Khorne a hunter faction. If they're making mistakes that big the first time around then I have doubts they've been given the time or resources required to make this a viable long term balancing strategy. I'd be happy to be proven wrong but I'm expecting this to be pretty short lived and maybe phased out at the GHB. Or worse, forgotten for months after a new book comes out and thereby unduly punishing units or buffing factions that were rebalanced by the release.
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58 minutes ago, itgnightraven said:
Btw, can a 5 man unit bloodletter become more than 5 thanks to their banner?
Yes, the bloodletter banner is 'add' not 'return' so the size can be bigger than it started. However it's one banner per 10 so you don't get one on a 5 man unit.
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So, any guesses what they might do to the shrine to help the faction out? I'd love to see a new aura that makes it so heroes wholly within 8" can't be targeted with ranged weapons or spells. Maybe add an increased range for abilities for heroes wholly within 8" too so they can stay safe but still affect the battlefield. I have this sneaking feeling it'll just be something basic like units wholly within 16" get an extra -1 rend.
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5 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:
@Grimrock thats fair. The beasts update was a pretty radical change and improvement so it shows they are capable of doing it. We also know that GW pays attention to the stats collected by The Honest Wargamer (even if they dont credit them) as seen in the latest Meta Watch article. That should mean they are aware that Khorne is now statistically the worst performing army in tournaments world wide. The question is whether or not they became aware of those stats before the White Dwarf was written (which must occur several months before release at least).
Yeah fair enough. I really do hope it'll make some actual improvements, even a couple simple buffs like Nurgle had in broken realms could be really exciting. Just difficult to be optimistic.
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45 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:
The next white dwarf update is confirmed to be Blades of Khorne.
Do you think we will get the Beasts of Chaos treatment (army wide buffs, unique new abilities, etc), or the Slaves to Darkness treatment (i.e. virtually nothing)?
I don't think anything that comes out of a white dwarf is going to radically change the faction and given the last round of points changes it doesn't seem particularly likely that GW even understands what the problems with the faction even are. That or they just don't care enough to fix the mortal side because they'd rather sell bloodthirsters for now. I'm definitely expecting the slaves to darkness treatment unfortunately.
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Interestingly enough, I think the Maggotkin book is one of the most fluffy books I've ever seen. It has a similar issue where sub factions have basically boiled down to giving you a single battalion benefit from previous books, but the army absolutely feels like Nurgle should feel. The internal balance is pretty good as well and there are almost no units where I feel like there's no way I'd ever use them in a game. Sure blight kings kill more than plaguebearers, but plaguebearers are better at objective control. Plague drones are fast, beasts of Nurgle flexible, nurglings help with summoning, etc etc. It certainly feels like Nurgle is less competitive than the strong builds in stormcast or warclans, but even then it isn't terrible and can stand up against all those meta mortal wound lists really well.
All that being said, I'm feeling a bit of a lag in the community as well. Personally I think it's coming from a total lack of hype over upcoming releases. Even if we have a new book, people need that excitement about what's coming next. It motivates you to adapt and switch up your lists, to theory craft and debate, to get on the table and see how your army fairs against the new hotness. As we move into this season of slower releases and nothing particularly exciting on the horizon things are just feeling a little more flat than they should. At least for me anyway.
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The tome is also useful on a wrath of khorne bloodthirster since it gives an extra unbind which (I believe) he can get a +2 on. Fluffwise my justification is it isn't an arcane tome, he's just a more powerful thirster. More anti magic, and the 'spell' is just him getting even angrier and his weapon is lighting up with his incandescent rage. Mechanically sure, it's a spell, but you can get around the anti-magic lore if you need to. It really is a killer artifact for him.
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8 minutes ago, EntMan said:
Well either the price of on it's own will reduce, or the price of Start Collecting will go up...
I think they're just going to drop the start collecting box like they have with the other 3rd edition releases. The separate Magmadroth will probably cost the same as the start collecting does now.
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17 minutes ago, Nos said:
Man the new dice sets are really rubbish these days huh
Most of the older ones in 2.0 were really creative and felt like novel products as of themselves
These are just like
Blue dice
Orange dice
Granted now they're just overpriced custom dice, but at least they're usable and you can read the facings. I'll take boring dice with a single custom symbol over the old maggotkin dice or the practically illegible squig dice any day of the week.
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17 hours ago, Wordy9th said:
How's the great unclean one, and what should I be taking with him?
He's been solid for me so far but hasn't really dominated a match. He's super tanky and he can do a good chunk of damage, but that speed 4 is a serious issue on a primarily combat monster and you spend way too much time just trying to get him where he needs to be. His combat stats are good but not great so he relies a lot on landing the mountain of loathsome flesh and/or abusing the witherstave to get damage through, so if your dice are a little cold (no 6's to hit or roll a 1 on the rampage) you'll be struggling to kill much. Generally I think he's best as the general for a befouling host list since he's really the only daemon you actually want as your general and the bell combos well with the extra tree to push you into some solid summoning as the game progresses. You can use him elsewhere but he is a pretty huge chunk of points and I think you can get more benefit out of a lord of afflictions/maggoth lord combo in most other lists.
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14 minutes ago, Noserenda said:
Pretty sure the nurgle release ran into the same thing as its 40k peers, the delays being less telegraphed and December being a common time for less staff in the office. Some of the Eldar plan was clearly premeditated but the last dozen or so have been super fillery articles.
I think the other choices are also relevant here, IDK and FS are pretty solidly the least popular AOS armies, i think someone may just be playing the numbers
What I meant was since Nurgle was delayed two months (October to December) the community site could/should have been padding out the time between with articles to build or maintain at least a semblance of hype for the book. I could absolutely see them not having the time in December, but the articles should have been ready for the October release and they had November to make more. Easy ones would have been an analysis of the massive changes to the wheel, subtle but important changes to summoning, and the hugely improved maggoth lords. Or a piece written by a playtester examining the new book and talking through how the army's natural resistance and automatic healing make it an excellent choice to deal with ranged mortal wounds. So many good options. Plus the timing of releases didn't seem to affect their articles for GSC or Custodes, each of them got far more articles than Nurgle even though their release dates came a few weeks after.
1 hour ago, novakai said:Just a thought, maybe Warcom feels that AoS rules are just harder to drum up excitement over for compare to 40K.
if a Magmadroth doesn’t have a 36 inch range attack that does auto 9 MW and can potentially one shot a Megagargant at max damage like the Tau hammerhead does it not worth writing about lol ( disclaimer I don’t remember what the Tau hammerhead does but it was definitely spicy and dreadful depending on who you talk to)
I'd agree with this to an extent. The changes to AoS certainly haven't been nearly as flashy as 40k so it's probably a lot tougher to make an exciting sounding article. I think the trick is that an experienced AoS player could absolutely understand what parts of a new book are exciting and relay those changes to other players, even if it isn't so exciting for people who don't already play the faction. Maybe the issue is the community team has lost the people that really understood AoS and therefore can't comfortably write articles without the concern of making mistakes or misinterpreting rules. The lack of articles could easily just be a staffing issue instead of a conscious decision on the part of GW to ignore it in favor of 40k.
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11 minutes ago, Noserenda said:
I suspect a lot of the extra articles are down to padding out the release schedule a bit due to more delays behind the scenes but it is also a big relaunch of a somewhat neglected cornerstone of 40k and part of the methodical big xeno relaunches they have been working through the last few years, once thats done id hope some of that energy goes on a similar project for AoS, blowing off the dust and replacing super old plastic core kits.
Yeah I'm not really holding out much hope for more focus on AoS from the community team. Nurgle got held back a few months and they didn't pad anything out, they just straight up ignored it. I think we got one or two rules articles and a lore article and that was it. Not only was it the first post-launch book but it also constituted a huge re-imagining of the faction with an absolutely massive number of changes, and yet it was almost like it didn't exist on warhammer community. Instead the site was flooded with articles for 40k factions that wouldn't release for months.
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36 minutes ago, Enoby said:
I'm not actually sure if Valkia is a daemon prince in AoS - I thought she was, but her rules would suggest otherwise.
I think she may come under the "immortal mortal brand of Chaos champions", where the god resurrects them and they don't age, but they're not a daemon.
Funny enough, her lore on page 37 of the current army book says that Khorne reforged her as a 'Daemon Queen'. So the lore specifically says she's a daemon, but instead of DAEMON she has MORTAL. I've written the FAQ team for the last two books asking if it was a typo, but according to the FAQ it was omitted intentionally. Absolutely no idea why or what possible rules abuse they're trying to avoid, but the rules just absolutely directly contradict the stated lore for the model.
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1 hour ago, Neverchosen said:
So I have been looking into other game systems and this is the exact push I needed. I am not leaving AOS but I am definitely not going to be getting a new army or really adding anything more significant to my existing armies... Maybe one or two units when big releases come out, but overall I am pretty happy with my armies. In essence they have finally priced me out... a number of years back 😅
So the real question is what is the better game system between SW: Legion and Marvel Crisis Protocol? As much as I would rather support a smaller IP my friends are interested in the bigger more familiar game systems. My top pick would be Armada but pre-painted models (even knowing I can repaint them) feels a little like sacrilege. The positive news is that now I can point to this increase to get out of the pressure to avoid my friends getting me into 40k.
Also wasn't Warhammer + going to be the companies saving grace? 😉
Maybe if they cut down on those productions they can balance their books?
(Note: I am being overly facetious but this hobby has been very pricey for me and this increase is still not a happy time)Haven't played legion, but Marvel Crisis Protocol is a rock solid game with fantastic rules that still encourages you to play nice thematic lists with heroes/villains that work together in the comic books and movies. The only problems I've had so far are model related. Building can sometimes be a chore as their kits aren't anywhere near as well laid out as GW's, but the biggest issue is actually finding the models you want. The game seems to have exploded in popularity to the point that they can't keep up with demand and it can be a real struggle to find certain popular models. Even so I'd highly recommend the game.
On topic, I'll echo a number of others in saying I'm not surprised but I am irritated. A company raking in massive profits like GW could handle the increased costs and just make a little less profit. Not losing money or anything, just a little less profit. Ridiculous concept I know, that's not how any of this works, yadda yadda yadda. I've been in it for more than 20 years and I know the routine, but that doesn't help the fact that I get a little more annoyed every time price hike season rolls around. On the bright side I'm going to have to take an involuntary break from the hobby in a few months and honestly I'm hoping that this is the thing that finally gets me to kick the GW habit for good and move on.
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3 hours ago, Mako said:
Quick noob question about the Ravagers' Rally the Tribes battle trait...does the unit rallied (10 marauders, 5 horsemen or 10 cultists) have to be one that was originally part of your army and has been wiped or can it be a completely different unit? In the second case does the unit need to be included in the list and count to the points total or is it a free bonus unit?
Thanks!
Totally new unit, and no you don't need to bank points for it or include it in the list beforehand. All summoning in AoS is free points wise, you generally only need to expend some sort of in game resource for it (like a command point for Ravagers or Contagion Points in Maggotkin).
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1 hour ago, mojojojo101 said:
It might be that the Crossboos or Sciptor Mortis is on the cover but this article was written weeks ago and they weren't exactly sure if this article was going to go up before or after LVO. Admittedly that's some fairly potent hopium.
Yeah I don't think they particularly worry about spoiling units on book covers. If I remember correctly they showed off the new slaanesh book a couple weeks before they showed glutos even though he's on there in the background. Who knows though.
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40 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:
See beautiful model consider it for a Demon Prince or Spawn, remember money exists abandon my dream.
The life of a Chaos Player... 💔Never even crossed my mind, but that alternate build would be an absolutely epic Khorne daemon prince if you could figure out a way to get rid of all the Eldar iconography and gems. Or maybe keep them of it on and make it a Slaanesh prince? Gonna need to see the size comparisons.
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17 hours ago, TaurielBlack said:
Allegiance: Maggotkin of Nurgle
- Subfaction: Droning Guard
- Mortal Realm: Chamon
- Grand Strategy: Spread Rampant Disease
- Triumphs: IndomitableLeaders
Lord of Afflictions (210)*
- General
- Command Trait: Overpowering Stench
- Artefact: The Splithorn Helm (?)
Gutrot Spume (170)*
Lord of Plagues (145)*
Rotbringer Sorcerer (145)
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (?)
- Lore of Malignance: Rancid VisitationsBattleline
3 x Plague Drones (200)*
3 x Plague Drones (200)*
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)*
20 x Plaguebearers (300)*Endless Spells & Invocations
Umbral Spellportal (70)Core Battalions
*Battle RegimentTotal: 1940 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 139
Drops: 2Played this recently and wanted folks thoughts on how to make it more competitive, though i did have a blast when I did play is so tbh I'm already pretty happy with the list 😆But ofc, comments and CC are always welcome 👍
I've been trying something similar so I had a couple thoughts. First is to try running the plaguebearers as two units of 10 instead of one 20. I think the ability to spread out more helps with scenarios with more objectives and you don't feel as bad putting a 10 man unit on a back line objective as you would with a 20 man unit. The extra unit has helped me make sure the combat units are always free to go forward instead of babysitting. Second idea would be to try combining the sorcerer and lord of plagues into a maggoth lord. I do understand the rancid/portal combo is good, but without any bonuses from the coven the odds of getting both off are going to be pretty slim, especially if your opponent has a few unbinds. Taking bloab would give you more consistent magic, better counter magic, and much much better combat profile. You'd probably have to drop the portal for a different endless spell though, maybe a lifeswarm?
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1 hour ago, TerminusRex said:
Many/most of the spells have no keyword requirements to cast them, the keywords are usually for the target of the spell (or not at all).
Her warscroll says she just knows all those spells. Kairos knows all the spells of any nearby wizard.
Kairos' scroll says "In addition, while friendly Wizards are wholly within 18" of him, Kairos Fateweaver knows any spells on those Wizards' warscrolls that are possible for him to cast". He can, for example, cast Whipsers of Doubt because it is actually on Synessa's warscroll and doesn't have any other requirements, but he can never cast lore spells because they aren't actually present on the warscrolls.
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9 hours ago, Nasnad said:
Trying to make a 1000 point army to build towards, how is this for a starter? ..
Notnsure what subfaction, traits and artifacts to go for either.
LEADERS
Poxbringer (145)
Rotbringer Sorcerer (145)
- General
BATTLELINE
5 x Putrid Blightkings (250)
10 x Plaguebearers (150)
2 x Pusgoyle Blightlords (220)
TOTAL POINTS: 910/1000
Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App
Looks solid enough to me. At those points you could add an endless spell for the sorcerer to cast as well to use his corrupting ability. Maybe master of magic for a trait, arcane tome for the artifact, and rancid visitations for the spell? That way he could cast the portal with and then rancid visitations through. It's not great since he doesn't have any bonuses but the re-roll should help most of the time. Honestly sub factions aren't too big of a deal, you can just pick one you think sounds nice. If you decide to make the poxbringer your general you could go with the extra tree sub faction, or maybe just the pre-game move on the blightlords would be easiest.
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12 minutes ago, Sangfroid said:
The glotkin has hands down the best command ability in the game “Blitzkrieg” being able to charge your opponent at the end of their movement phase with glotkin and any maggotkin unit is Amazing.
let’s say your faced with 4 nasty dragons 3” away you can charge glotkin and a unit of daemons (plaguebearers or nurglings imo) to the one flank of the 4 dragons this limits the attacks back at you and even better,if you have summoned a sloppily bilepiper your turn before they can’t even pile in so at most you have 1 dragons attacks on glotkin while they get to go to town.
that’s just one limited example but other stuff as well
lets say they move 5 dawnriders onto an objective within 12” of glotkin there’s a chance you can charge them, do 4 mortal wounds in charge phase and then smash them in the combat phase and you score objective not opponent.
plus you are staffing disease points out if you make the charge.
his bravery check in combat is also amazing to retreat or take d6 mortals
700pts is a lot but I think it’s worth it
I get Blightkrieg can be potentially very strong, but I don't think it's going to be that great in every game. Your opponent is only going to put units near him that want to get into combat anyway, so charging won't change a ton in that respect. Sure you can try to organize some complicated setup where you charge the flanks of a single unit, but your opponent should be planning around it and being careful with their positioning. I think the best use is going to be sending in chaff to try to waste a turn of attacks or preventing your opponent from charging onto an objective, but the army doesn't exactly have a ton of chaff to begin with. Especially since you have to toss 700 points into the Glottkin to begin with. It's all theory on my part though, have you actually used Blightkrieg to good effect in multiple games? Even when your opponent knew it was coming?
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So before the book released I was really hoping the Glottkin would be good this edition, but looking at the points and stats I'm just not excited about them. They're about as resilient as a mega gargant and hit slightly harder, but they're over 200 points more expensive and half the speed. They're a wizard sure, but the spells are only so so and unlike the gargants they only count as 5 models on an objective so I'd call that a wash. I really want to pick them up and paint them, but at their monetary cost I want something more to justify the purchase than a hobby project. Has anyone had any good experience with them in any games that can get me excited enough to take the plunge? Any wow moments that made you think they were totally worth 700 points?
The Rumour Thread
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted · Edited by Grimrock
Honestly the lore is pretty neat, but with that profile there's a huge disconnect. These guys aren't killing anything before Kurdoss gets to them. Maybe we'll see a rule where they get +2 to hit/wound if the enemy is near Kurdoss? Or they get to shoot for free after Kurdoss charges? I kind of doubt it since that'd be way too specific, but there has to be something we're missing because two attacks at 12" range, 4+/4+/-1, is pretty close to the worst ranged profile I can come up with for a dedicated ranged unit. 10 of them shooting will kill 1 Vindictor on average. Or kill half a blight king. Or put 3 wounds into a 4+ hero that doesn't have look out sir. Like I get they can pop up anywhere and the article says they can kill hard to reach heroes but I'm just not seeing how they'll actually do that.