Grimrock
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Posts posted by Grimrock
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23 minutes ago, JonnyTheKing said:
I’m still stuck on whether I should run my marauders in 20s or 40s, what do you guys think?
Depends on what you're planning really, 20 man units will work for screening and quick alpha strikes but 40 man units have some staying power while also needing hero babysitting for inspiring presence. They take targeted buffs better and they have the numbers to take a hit and still have their bonuses. I'm planning on 40s personally.
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Honestly it's pointless for people to argue the weapons at this point. The rules can be read either way and people are only going to be convinced when the FAQ drops. Send an email to the FAQ team and just don't build any models until they give a conclusive answer. There should be lots of other stuff to work on in the meantime.
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I think if you're going to include any slaves units you pretty much need to go all in and bring the support too. On purely face value the scrolls are overpriced, but combined with support like full rerolls to attack, wound, and save they start becoming much more attractive. Personally I'm having trouble placing chaos warriors as well but knights and marauders are very interesting.
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50 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:
1. No one is going to use cabalist, because it's clearly on its face the worst. It's a 3+ and you have to kill models, to get the bonus
Well there's your problem. If you automatically assume the magic focused sub faction is useless, then of course the magic is going to look worse. I do think think Cabalists have potential, the spells are really good but have huge weaknesses so you have to build to make them work. Take the trait to make the cast boost ritual go off on a 2+, the artifact for auto ritual on a clutch turn, take cogs or balewind for extra casts, snake cultists for regenerating sacrifices, portal to guarantee range for one spell... It's a lot of investment sure, but being able to use those spells reliably might be worth it. It'll be fun to see if someone can make it work.
Really the biggest weakness I can see for the cabalists is a lack of cheap double casters to put down endless spells.
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10 hours ago, mmimzie said:
Maraurders are taken in lots of 20, and max 40. The 20 buff is just rend, and with the way AoS tends to work you shouldn't get more than 20-25 25mm bases into combat. At 40 you start running in battleshock issues really hard really fast, as you start auto failing battle shocks at 5+ deaths. While losing jsut -1 rend isn't gonna break your damage so much if you lose a single model.
once you start thinking of maxing the maurders other units start to matter like unmade.I think there is a real reason to run marauders in max size units for a few reasons. There is some issue with battleshock for sure, but if you run one or two max then you can cover it with a pocket command point in an emergency.
First, I've run larger units of 25 mm bases and I've found its very viable to get 30 models in at once, especially with the massive charges marauders should get regularly. That makes the output for a large unit about 50 percent higher.
Second, I think the rend is worth quite a bit more than you give it credit for, especially with the save reroll that's starting to proliferate through the game. Against a 4+ save with 30 models you'll kill 10 with no rend, 13 with rend. With a reroll that turns into 5 with no rend, 9 with rend. Almost double the effectiveness.
Third, big units take buffs a lot better than small units. It'll be tougher to manage the wholly within bubbles but getting 40 models with full rerolls to hit, wound and save is obviously better than 20. S2D has great buffs but you only have so many so getting the most out of them is key.
In my eyes marauders are essentially mortal plague monks. They're faster, more resilient, more expensive, but get access to extremely similar buffs. So just look how the monks are typically run. Also, I've been thinking about it and funny enough it seems like Archaon really just wants to run big blobs of marauders instead of elite units. He solves the battle shock, has a bigger buff bubble for larger units, and they're the best target for By My Will since they die so easy.
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1 hour ago, firtahl said:
How is there not at least 1 mindstealer in every StD list? It seems like an amazing tool for just 100 points. Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but ill be allying in 1 to all my eligible chaos factions.
Short range and only in the hero phase is killing it for me. Usually when an enemy unit is that close in your hero phase it's already killed whatever it went in to get, so the fight last effect will typically just give you some flexibility in activation order. It has a potential combo with the khorne daemon prince command ability leaving alpha strikers high and dry, and maybe it'll help when you have a chaos lord and need to double activate before the enemy can fight, but otherwise I don't think the ability will do much.
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2 hours ago, kozokus said:
Does anyone have an advice on Archaon and how to play him? i am fascinated by the command ability of his sub allegeance that determine the turn order.
Well I played him a decent amount in the past but it was all in the god marked armies. Typically there the name of the game was building a list around him so you could buff him to the nines and leverage his combat strength. Do that, kill anything that threatens him, and then let him dominate the table.
I think that can still work in the new book. I'm planning on running some marauders since they seem to be the best target for By My Will, and then sticking as much synergy in as possible. A bloodsecrator is great for all his attack profiles, and wrathmongers if you can keep up with him. A bloodstoker is great to let him alpha strike and reroll wounds. The sorcerer is his best friend, similar to a warshrine. Maybe a harbinger of decay for resilience or a great unclean one for more speed. Lots of options but points are tight so you'll have to pick carefully.
I haven't done a ton of list building with the everchosen subfaction yet but it doesn't seem to make anything harder. I'll spend some time on it when I get my book.
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4 hours ago, Sobakaa said:
EDIT: Unfortunately warshrine still cannot affect units with a different mark than he has, i misread that. That Nurgle buff would've been amazing on chaos warriors.
Where do you see that? I've been looking at the scroll on the AoS app and as far as I can see all of the prayers can be used by a shrine regardless of its mark, and they can target any S2D unit regardless of their mark. The only condition is the stronger effect is reserved for a unit whose mark matches the prayer.
As far as bringing units into the army, I think a blob of 40 marauders and a chaos sorcerer might have some merit. 410 points so it's not nothing, but using the spell on them puts their damage output to absolutely ridiculous levels. Perfect for clearing screens and letting keepers into the big stuff behind. They've also got a minimum 9" charge in godseekers which makes them more than fast enough. Something to keep in mind if they nerf depravity into the ground and we need to start making a more standard army.
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Just hoping to clear something up because I've seen a few people mention warshrine prayers. I've been through the warscroll a few times in the app and I don't see any requirements on the shrine's mark for what prayer it can utter. So a khorne marked shrine can still use the undivided prayer right? The only thing I can see that cares about the mark is for the target unit.
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On 12/4/2019 at 11:44 PM, Praecautus said:
Gaunt summoner can pull a unit of lesser daemons from a realm gate each turn. Other than that I don’t know of any that are not tied to allegiance abilities.
Looks like the summoner on disk doesn't need the realmgate anymore, but it's also only once per game.
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38 minutes ago, Asamu said:
Bloodreavers are on 25mm bases as well. They're the same.
Bloodreavers are definitely not on 25mm bases, they'd be much better if they were. They're 32, same as the Blood Warriors.
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5 hours ago, Enoby said:
Archaon has the hedonite keyword!
Love it, now I've got a good excuse to use him with my slaanesh. With 20 wounds I think he's got good potential.
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1 hour ago, JangutzKhan said:
Ok. Some problems I still have:
- Chosen still only have 2 wounds (wtf)
- Manticore Lord has the same CA that only affects warriors
- Varanguard shields nerfed from a 4+ to 5+ spell save
- Lord on foot still 4+ save
Good:
- Improved warscrolls for Chariots, Warshrine (massive), daemon princes (massive), Archaon.
Don't forget the marauders, their buffs are absolutely massive. Double the attacks, guaranteed +1 to hit and -1 rend at 20+ models, minimum 8" charge with a drummer. Toss in a sorcerer lord for full rerolls to hit, wound and save, a chaos lord for double activation... if they stay at 120 points for 20 I think they're in the running for best battleline in the whole game. Chaos sorcerer is amazing too, the change to his spell and oracular vision are ridiculous. I'm waiting to see points, but I'm loving these changes.
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Man I'm super pumped for these warscrolls. The sorcerer lord's buff is massive, full rerolls to hit and wound with rerolls to save? Absolutely amazing. Archaon looks fantastic, marauders look fantastic, daemon prince looks fantastic, chaos lord looks fantastic, full rerolls to save on chaos warriors looks fantastic. Honestly I'm having a tough time seeing something to be really disappointed in... I guess I was hoping for more for varanguard, but if it means I don't need to pay $120 for 3 models then I'm not really complaining.
I was figuring there wouldn't be many warscroll changes, but the amount of tweaks and improvements is really blowing me away. If the alleigance abilities, battalions and spells are even half decent then this army is going to rock the house. All I'm hoping for now is a cheap spell that buffs rend and I'll be happy as a clam.
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9 minutes ago, Overread said:
There's still a whole week before the Battletome releases.
Yeah, but they usually roll out the previews before the pre-order to build hype. Articles after the pre-order are usually pretty sparse, maybe a tactical one or a painting article.
For example they've completely ignored the endless spells. The only completely new models of the release (ie. not resculpts) and we still have no idea what they do. I know the GMG review should reveal all tomorrow but it's weird for them to rely so heavily on a third party.
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Is anyone else kind of flabbergasted that we only got a single rules preview for S2D this week? There's usually 2 or 3 right? Hosts, endless spells, new models... I assumed we'd at least get a deeper look at everchosen today but nothing. I mean if GW isn't even trying to hype the release I really don't know what to expect.
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1 hour ago, JPjr said:
I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of that is just Archaon getting a big boost, powers & points, putting him around the same level as Nagash, kinda makes sense.
Yeah wouldn't be surprised, but even if they up him to 800 points there's still room to bump the varanguard to 300 each and fit in 2000.
I guess we'll see, 800 has to be incredibly difficult to balance especially with all the potential synergy from the different marked armies so I'm hoping he stays similar to now. At 800 he'd have to get something bonkers like auto kills from the slayer of kings or something.
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Disappointed the warcry warbands aren't battleline, but not surprised. At this point I'm kinda hoping the rules stay the same for them with no added synergies so I'm not tempted to pick up any more boxes.
The point changes for the everchosen stuff sounds... Drastic. You can currently fit 12 varanguard, archaon and a gaunt at 2k with 120 points to spare. Really that's what I was hoping for, the models are so expensive they really needed a points hike to justify the cost. As long as that comes with a significant boost in power in going to be extremely happy. Also picking a mark for the varanguard should pretty much guarantee a purchase for me.
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I was thinking you could take a picture of it along with one of their models and fingers for turn number. Guarantees the picture isn't from a different game.
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I'm liking the rule previews so far. Ravagers look extremely flexible and interesting to play, and the everchosen looks really strong. I guess it makes sense since taking Archaon means you don't get a command trait, so this ability has to cover the usual power from that as well. It does reinforce the likelihood that Archaon probably won't see many personal buffs, likely just huge strength from allegiance abilities.
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7 minutes ago, HorticulusTGA said:
Well, yes. And that was bad, but at least they had the "Chosen" excuses, also their rules reflected that.
We have none of it here, and the sad example of Shadowspear CSM next to new multipart CSM.
By the same picture above we can see the old ass resin Chosen will also stay. A pity, really.
Yeah, I guess what I'm trying to say is it's not fully without precedent and we might be stuck this way for quite a while until they're ready to fully refresh the line. Not the end of the world but disappointing for sure.
Hopefully the rules get a proper rework at least. I've been wanting to pick up some S2D for a while but I've been paralyzed by all the different choices they might make on release.
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19 minutes ago, HorticulusTGA said:
The problem for me is not the mono pose design (ETB and all is great thing), it's the fact they'll keep the old kits in the range
Imagine if they kept the old Chaos Space Marines squad kits alongside the new ones from Shadowspear ?
It's the same problem here. 😡
Really, there is more and more a general range disparity in both 40k and AOS that does not look good at all on the battlefield.
I hope it will be solved until The Old World arrives.
Hmm, they actually kind of did do that for a while. Way back in 2012 Dark Vengeance had a set of beautiful chaos space marines. Amazing sculpts, really captured what chaos marines should look like. They kept the old marines around until they resculpted them this year. Little different because they called them chosen, but still, such a blatant difference in quality between the two and it stuck for almost a decade.
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Preview article for the start collecting box is up. Disappointingly no rule tidbits, but one interesting comment:
"These kits won’t be replacing anything that’s currently in the range, meaning if you like the original models, good news – you’ll be able to keep using them!"
I could be wrong, but it's really sounding like they're not doing a full resculpt after all, they're just releasing the monopose from the start collecting and leaving all the old kits as is. I'm not overly disappointed because I've always liked the old chaos warriors and knights, but I know some people were really hoping for a full resculpt.
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39 minutes ago, Rogue Explorator said:
That's my experience with Iron Golems and Splintered Fangs as well. Planning and dry fitting can help a lot, since some parts are better cut of and swapped before glueing and other are better assembled first and then cut. But who has time and a mind for that when in a kitbashing rage?
Also felt the same way about how cohesive their equipment and style is.
All in all, they are definitely not a breeze to convert, which is rather sad considering even with equipment options they are painfully monopose and a single box not exactly make for a great warband either.
Doesn't change the fact they are lovely kits though and a great base for more freeform kitbashes for DAoS and Inq28.
Yeah I spent a few days doing 2 or 3 models a night, carefully planning out each weapon change, head swap, etc. It was a labor of love, but there's no way I'd want to go through all that again... and I'm assuming max units will be at least 4 boxes. I can't imagine anyone really wanting to go through the work to convert those units, and all the things that makes the models so good in warcry can make them so terrible in AoS.
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AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
I think the book has some really potent tools for competitive play. I'll agree that the scrolls are a little underwhelming, but full rerolls are deceptively powerful and they're all over. I think a lot of people are underestimating how powerful models will be under the effect of all the various buffs.
For example, take marauders. A full hit/wound reroll approximately doubles their damage output, and all it takes is a 3+ prayer or a cast on a 6. Add on the mark of nurgle from a general and 30 of them put out about 12 r1 d2 wounds and 28 r1 d1 wounds. That's about 35 wounds to a 4+ save, and they can go again for a command point. Compare to the base warscroll of 14 wounds to a 4+ save and you can see the difference.
Then the tools from the legions are really potent as well, and seem surprisingly balanced. Summoning multiple back line units can be back breaking in some scenarios. Blocking line of site for free is killer. Ignore battleshock is... Shocking haha. Bonuses to cast with the lore is really good as well.
Honestly the biggest weakness I've seen competitively is the battalions are a little weak. 1 drops are possible which is good, but they're expensive and the abilities are pretty poor outside ruinbringer. Even with that I think they'll do really well and I'm mostly just excited to get some more table time.