Grimrock
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Posts posted by Grimrock
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I assumed it wasn't selling out because the warscrolls still aren't available. Unless you're in for watching a half dozen reviews and piecing together the little bits from each, it's still difficult to tell what the actual warscrolls for the individual models are. Subtle changes to wording or keywords can make or break a model and it can be easy to miss those without seeing the official scroll. Seems like a bad call to buy something when you don't know what you're getting.
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Yeah it doesn't say the cast comes from the unit leader, the whole unit is the caster. So since a unit is always in range of itself you don't need to clump up or anything. I'm thinking of a unit of 20 pinks in a changehost and the conflagration coven teleporting up with a hero that has aura of mutability. Buff from the spell and from 20 models makes them 60 attacks hitting on 3s. Reroll 1s from a command point means you hit about 46, wounding on 3s means about 31 rend 1 wounds. Then you have 20 pinks in the enemy's face that nets you up to 100 wounds with a 6+/6+. Not too shabby at all.
If you follow up behind the unit with some flamers to also get the aura of mutability... Yeah you'll be doing some serious damage in a shooting phase.
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Out of curiosity, where are people seeing the warscrolls? I watched the GMG review and it was too blurry to make anything out clearly. I've been tearing my hair out waiting for the app to update or the warscroll links to go live on the gw site haha.
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Interesting notes from the tzeentch book. Foot gaunt summoner got the same summoning as the disk, lookalike the same spell, and also has the slaves keyword for 240 points. Splitting is confirmed to be on the horror warscroll now, and they cost 200 points. Still waiting for a clear shot of the warscroll to see how it all works, but it seems like even more of a no brainer summon now.
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2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:
I don’t count on magic. Without exaggerating: in the last 5 AoS games I did manage to only get 3 spells off total while having an average of ~1,5 Sorcerers per list. By Sigmar I just can‘t manage to roll higher than 5 concerning magic.... (my Warshrine sucks as well he managed to not bless anything for 4 turns in a row...)
I think this is going to be a big issue for you playing slaves. Like it or not the army seems to be totally designed around the sorcerer and/or the warshrine, along with the aura buffs. It's a huge pain on turns where it doesn't work out, but pretty much everything other than the marauders are overcosted if you don't take buffs into consideration.
You can try to mitigate the luck factor by having multiple sources, I'm planning to run a sorcerer and shrine together. Two chances at the full reroll should hopefully give me good odds on having a clutch buff up when it's needed. You could also look to allies that can buff without rolls. A bloodstoker gives +3 to charge and full wound rerolls to khorne mortals. Harbinger of decay helps with resilience. That sort of thing.
Also I'd disagree about the Knights with lances, but again it's mostly based on using buffs. The lances are the stronger attack by far on the charge, and putting buffs into the unit compounds that significantly. I've been testing a unit of 10 and while maneuvering is really difficult in a terrain heavy table, I haven't had too many issues getting 6+ knights into combat with units as long as I multi charge (which the gigantic base sizes actually make a lot easier). Also the lances can attack over screens which is a really neat bonus I didn't expect.
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28 minutes ago, The_Dudemeister said:
The wording is super loose. "Pick 1 unit... add 1 to the attacks characteristic" instead of pick a Tzeentch unit or whatever. I'm going to have so much fun with that in our 2vs2 matches. 😂
I assume it's worded that way because the opponent might get to control it like normal endless spells. Super risky if you're up against a combat army.
Same with the simulacrum. Since the vast majority of the tzeentch army will be wizards it'll be super risky to have on the board. You get 3 mortal wounds on an enemy unit, then the opponent turns it around next turn and puts 5 into the wizard that cast it. Kind of like a chaos player bringing the quicksilver swords actually.
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4 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:
The spell buffs their rend. You are going from having no rend to the chance at having rend -1, while also generating fate points. That is ONLY a buff.
The preview said that their Gestalt Sorcery ability, which used to give them a +1 to hit when near a wizard, was changed to make them a wizard when they have 9 or more models. So the ability to cast a spell that grants rend 1 comes at the cost of an ability that gave +1 to hit automatically with no dice needed. Rend 1 is nice, but it's close to a wash with +1 to hit and you can fail a 6 pretty easily. Plus rend doesn't really matter when you're hitting on 5s.
I'm hoping the rest of the scroll got a rework or the sub faction for mortals helps them out. A native 4+ to hit is really a bare minimum for the ranged attacks, and I'd like to see the glaives do 2 damage each. Also shields on everyone since the models actually all get shields regardless of what weapon they're using.
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34 minutes ago, Sigwarus said:
I almost always use DD early on for castings and getting +1 for the rest of the battle seems tempting. Also dont forget the herald of tzeentch who can cast spells with 3 Dice once per game.
I did think of that but he only gets the boost on the first cast, so he still needs that hard 9 on the second. Might be worth a couple DD though... One thing I did come up with, since you declare the agenda your opponent might save their dispels to try to stop the casts. That might help you get more important spells through making the agenda worth it even if the bonus doesn't happen.
25 minutes ago, Sigwarus said:This could even mean that units of 20 pinks will hit the Battlefield.
Now that could be fun haha. Expensive as all get out and difficult to keep in the locus range, but it would take ages for most opponents to work through it.
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54 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:
Pinks do their damage through spells. The attacks are just a bonus.
I should clarify that I don't think pinks are bad, just that the ranged attack has always been awful. With them likely losing the +1 to cast they won't be as reliable for spell damage anymore, pushing more reliance on their conventional attacks. If the attacks don't get improved then the unit might be stuck as a tarpit with a little magic damage here and there. A pretty good tarpit, but a tarpit none the less.
Plus if the splitting rules are more restrictive (like you can't split if the whole unit is dead) then they will be vulnerable to being one shotted off the board and won't be able to tarpit at all. No clue how that'll go though, I'm just being pessimistic for now. Looking forward to seeing the preview video this weekend.
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Tzeentch did have a number of fun locuses so I'm a bit sad to see them go, but -1 to hit in melee across the board is pretty solid and it's always possible they might move the old locus powers to built in rules. Either way I guess we'll see how everything ends up this weekend.
Rend 1 on the flamers is pretty solid but I don't think it'll solve the issues with horrors. Imo, their biggest problem has always been the 4+ to hit/4+ to wound statline. If that stays the same then they're probably going to be relegated to annoying tarpit status. Assuming the split rule is generous then 50 wounds at a -1 to hit is a pretty good tarpit, but still not particularly exciting.
The agendas sound neat but if the preview is anything to go by they might be pretty tough to pull off. The only one that can do the casting agenda consistently right now is the Lord of Change, and even then he'd have to get a bit lucky. Plus if a caster that can do 2 casts at a 9+ in one turn, who cares if they get a +1 for the rest of the game? The only thing I can think of is burning through a lot of Destiny dice on an average caster but that doesn't seem anywhere near worth the investment. I'm curious to see what the rest look like.
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11 hours ago, Roark said:
Why not?
It isn't a khorne battalion so it can't be included in a khorne allegiance army. The god marked battalions all have a special piece that allows them to be taken in their respective allegiances, but ruinbringer doesn't.
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33 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:
I don’t entirely disagree with you but I am going to point out that historically, nomadic cultures would have pre-constructed altars that they would assemble before battle.
Also the fluff covers khorne at least. Apparently the chaotic corruption caused by the gathering of Khorne's forces causes the altars to just kind of... Come up out of the ground. Along with the more typical cracks, spikes, lava, rivers of blood, etc.
More on topic, faction terrain or the lack of it really isn't an advantage in and of itself. Speaking of khorne, their terrain is pretty strong by allowing prayer rerolls and debuffing nearby wizards but those rules could have just been added to the normal list of allegiance abilities. Take slaves to darkness, their auras are tied to heroes but could have easily just been tied to a terrain piece instead. Having it on terrain or heroes or as part of a battalion or command ability... It's all the same thing in the end. What matters is if the army as a whole is balanced/strong or not. Honestly not having terrain can be seen as a huge plus because you don't have to drop a bunch of time and money on a kit just so you can access your allegiance ability.
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51 minutes ago, NinjaBadger7 said:
Hey all
Apologies if this has been asked previously - is there a preference on axe or sword for a Daemon Prince?
I've done some math and it seems like the sword does more damage against 4+ and 3+ saves. The axe is a lot more consistent though so you could go either way.
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1 hour ago, Sinfullyvannila said:
The only Wizard KHORNE armies can take is Archaon. Unless that got changed in a GHB, which I don’t have access to right now.
Also IIRC, NURGLE can’t ally Tzeentch units.
As per the Khorne book, they can ally in Everchosen and Slaves to Darkness units, there is no specification for wizards. The only thing it says is Khorne can't take units with the SLAANESH keyword. You generally don't want to since there are a number of passive auras that mess with any form of magic, even friendly, but technically you still can.
I was thinking and it's possible that they might change Pinks so they're not wizards anymore and just give them a better ranged attack. I thought that's what they were back in Fantasy, but I can't remember. If they did that then they could drop the points down and the gaunt summoner on disk would make a little more sense.
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9 hours ago, Kramer said:
Hey! You’re going the same route as me! For me I just doubled down on the impact hits from the battalion. So three chariots and knights + daemon steed mounted lord in the battalion. Daemonettes in a second wave. Units of warriors to hold And tank objectives (actually want to fit in more but I just don’t know what to drop). For support daemon Prince and sorcerer Lord.
- whats your plan for the Lord om foot?
- I was thinking about the guant summoner to have a sorceress to keep up with your fast list and have an anti horde option. What’s your opinion?
- Lord on kharadrak also gives impact hits is a good call I might follow your lead on that one- Im going Slaanesh for the theme but I’m interested to hear if you thought about that as well? Because that re-roll to charge aura can be so important.
- The goal for the lord on foot is to chase after a unit and try to get them to attack twice on something that really needs to die. It's a little tricky to do with knights, but the pre-game 5" movement can help if needed. I did a practice game and double tapping a unit of knights that multi charged some units (and attacked more units behind them with the lances) utterly gutted my opponents army, so there's merit at least. He's also a decent fighter and something I can just throw at objectives if needed. That said he's definitely not required for the army and is tricky to use, but I'm not sure what to replace him with.
- I'm not sure on the gaunt summoner. The summoning and movement to set up short range spells would be nice but he's really expensive for being so squishy and lacking any bonuses for casting. I think he'll be good in a Cabal army but I'd rather just run a sorcerer on manticore for Ravagers or Despoilers.
- He really does do some impressive damage, but he's a lot of points too. If you decide to try both let us know how they work out. I'm interested to hear how the lord on mount works too.
- I think I've settled on Khorne for the moment mainly because of the daemon prince. I want him to have one of the two really good command abilities (Nurgle and Khorne IMO, but I'm waiting to see if Nurgle actually sticks around), and since he's the general for a despoilers army everything just sorta follows suit. The Khorne aura is pretty solid as well so that helps. I do like the Slaanesh command ability, but it seems particularly difficult to set up in your list. You need to charge with two units and then hope your opponent attacks the second unit hard enough to trigger the bonus attack. If you throw in some chariots at the same time he can just attack those instead and you're unlikely to get the bonus.
9 hours ago, Kramer said:see the list in the pictures (couldn’t add daemonettes for some reason in the warscroll builder. Should be 30 woman unit in there.) leaving me with 130 I’m just not sure what to do with
I think you might have issues getting work out of daemonettes in this army. I love running them in slaanesh, but missing out on the attack twice command ability and the extra hits on sixes really removes their biggest strengths. Hitting/wounding on 4's with no buffs really, really hurts haha. As a thought if you dropped them you could put 5 more warriors into each unit (to help keep the reroll saves around for longer) and then you're up to 230 spare points. Swap one chariot for marauder horsemen (more bodies now that you dropped the daemonettes) and you're at 260 which is plenty of room to put some monsters in.
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3 hours ago, Eldarain said:
Needs either him or Daemonic Mount for the Battalion.
Yeah I've been wrestling between the two. I settled on the karkadrak because I like the model a little more and the extra mortal wounds on the charge seems to match a little better with the battalion. Saving the 80 points could be interesting, if I dropped the extra command point I might be able to work something else in but I'm not sure what.
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4 hours ago, JackStreicher said:
the demon prince was okay, he lacks damage (I used the axe since I used Ssyl‘esske as Slaanesh DP)
I agree, but he does have a decent chance at killing most heroes in one round so I think that's his goal. The general DP in a despoilers list is surprisingly useful for this. The extra 5+ save and d3 heal actually makes him pretty tanky, so he can happily crash into almost any foot hero and be able to survive the retribution from surrounding units. The 12" move, flight, and small base also make him decent at line hopping and targeting backline support if you roll decent on your charge.
I think I've settled on a list for the time being, but there are so many options in this book I'm never really sure which way I want to go. The flexibility in the trait/artifact list in Despoilers is quite intriguing. Bonus move to set up buff auras or threaten objectives, bonus command points, and the Doombringer Blade is great for late game targets when you've moved out of your auras or they've died. I'd love to squeeze in another monster or two but I just can't figure out a good way to do it without sacrificing too much hitting power. I'm curious if anyone has any thoughts or suggestions on it.
Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Despoilers
Leaders
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- General
- Sword
- Trait: Paragon of Ruin
- Artefact: Diabolic Mantle
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (250)
- Artefact: Doombringer Blade
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Lord (110)
- Reaperblade & Daemonbound Steel
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
- Spell: Binding Damnation
Battleline
10 x Chaos Knights (360)
- Cursed Lance
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Javelin & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)
- Javelin & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
1 x Chaos Chariots (120)
- Greatblades
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
40 x Chaos Marauders (300)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Behemoths
Chaos Warshrine (170)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Battalions
Ruinbringer Warband (140)
Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 137 -
1 hour ago, Sinfullyvannila said:
Changehost and horrors definitely got more popular after the nerfs to Tzaangors and Skyfires.
The problem isn’t with the TZAANGORS being too strong though. The problem is that all the daemons other than Horrors and Heroes aren’t bringing enough to the table.
For sure. I mean enlightened might be a little high on the curve, but certainly no more broken than some of the newer models. GW can be pretty fickle though, and there are a lot of tzaangor out there already. Doesn't make much financial sense to buff them since that might not translate to many sales.
Might be cynical but in my experience it's extremely rare to have something really good in one version of a book still be really good in the next version. There might not be nerfs, but the power combos might be tweaked.... Huh, actually now that I think of it I bet Fold Reality changes to healing D6 wounds rather than returning D6 models. They can do the usual wording about returning D6 wounds worth of models and boom, enlightened are suddenly much less appealing without impacting their performance in Beasts of Chaos. Then they'll buff other stuff as usual and the book will end up in a good place.
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2 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:
Because they are currently relevant to a faction that you are ignoring.
Keep in mind that when Beasts of Chaos released the tzaangors got warscroll and point changes despite the fact that they were already a part of the Disciples of Tzeentch faction. I see absolutely no reason why the same thing couldn't happen in reverse this time around.
The main reason why I expect it is most disciples lists have been revolving around tzaangors in one form or another since the book dropped (aside from changehost). GW tends to address that behaviour with new books, tweaking the strongest models or builds so they're less optimal and buffing the weaker choices so people will consider picking those models up.
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2 hours ago, RUNCMD said:
What are peoples predictions for the new Tome that will most likely come next year, if any?
If the Khorne book is anything to go by, I think we can expect something like this:
- massively simplified battalions. crazy stuff like changehost will be gone and replaced by single ability battalions with a variety of usefulness. there will be some gems and some duds like always
- simplified warscrolls. mixed weapons from the tzaangors removed and toolkits like the ogroid or gaunt summoner trimmed
- powerful terrain and endless spells. honestly this seems super obvious since it's tzeentch and tzeentch should really be the best at magic, but it's rarely been the case in the past so I'm not very hopeful
- a good points rework that helps internal balance, but still leaves some outliers
- models that haven't sold well in the past getting a solid buff, personally I'd expect screamers or exalted flamers/chariot flamers to be the standout option in the new book. maybe kairic acolytes. typically this comes along with nerfs to units that have sold well, so maybe expect a hit to tzaangor enlightened since the rest seems pretty balanced right now
- very few resculpts if any. with the way they're trying to get books up to par they've been cutting resculpts to the bare minimum. I could see a fatemaster or something similar, but it might be just as likely that they cut the model entirely (like they did with the slaanesh hero on daemonic steed)
- hosts with differing abilities, maybe casting buffs or summoning buffs. there are a few cults/daemon legions detailed in the lore of the current book, so I'd expect those. typically 2 for mortals and 2 for daemons
Of course they might go completely off the rails and do something wacky, but this seems like the standard pattern for releases. If we get endless spells and terrain, and daemons still have a place in the army, I'll be pretty happy. Maybe a rework for the Lord of Change so I feel better about putting him on the board haha.
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34 minutes ago, Gibs said:
Speaking of Archaon can anyone see a reason to take him in anything other than 'Host of the Everchosen'?
As far as I can tell he will still get the keywords from the various legions which is fairly unique for a special character, most of them come with their host keyword already. Everything offers something nice actually. Not sure if it's optimal but still nice.
His extra command points would be really nice for ravagers since they're so starved. Despoilers can block line of sight to him which is ace, and the free 5 inch move at the beginning of the game pretty much guarantees an alpha strike. Healing would help too. Boosts to cast from the cabalists are always nice and he gets up close and personal more than most wizards so he can use those short range spells.
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5 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:
Is there any way to include some of this new STD goodness in Nurgle allegiance then? Was hoping to include a Daemon Prince or the Shrine but the buffs only work on STD units, so... Marauders? Shame the models are so awful.
Yeah marauders are probably the best bet for Nurgle. I've seen some conversions from ghouls, poxwalkers, and reavers that all look pretty good if you hate the models.
Chaos knights could be pretty good as well, they get really fast in Nurgle and offer a little more consistency than plague drones for example.
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1 hour ago, BaronBanana said:
I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but Infusion Arcanum doesn't affect the mount attacks, correct?
As far as I know it does since it doesn't specify otherwise. There are blanket rules for things like command traits and mounts, but spells are fair game. Same with Daemonic Power from the sorcerer lord.
The list certainly looks like it could be fun, but I've never really loved kairics personally. Good with minimum units for cheap battleline but they never seemed to pack enough punch to justify going larger for me. Maybe the witchfyre coven is the piece I've been missing.
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11 minutes ago, BaronBanana said:
I'm thinking of running Archaon in a tzeentch allegiance army to get the destiny dice for his slayer of kings trigger. I've looked over the DoT book, but I can't find a decent way to support him in it. Do any more experienced players have an idea of what I could throw in from either the StD or DoT book?
There are a couple good synergies for tzeentch. First, Infusion Arcanum is probably his best spell from the list. Tossing in a Lord of Change and/or Blue Scribes should almost guarantee his casting as well. Marauders go really well with his command ability, and destiny dice are quite helpful for their charge rolls as you only need to alter one dice and the other will always be a 6. A lord of chaos can make him fight twice if you really want, and would also work with marauders if Archaon gets out of range. Finally a S2D sorcerer is a must take for him, allowing him full rerolls on attack and reroll saves.
AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
The bloodsecrator works quite well with archaon in khorne where you won't be taking wizards anyway, but the reroll successful spells is a huge bummer for the chaos sorcerer lord. Since you pretty much always want to take a sorcerer Lord with archaon it can make positioning tricky. I have been considering a bloodstoker though. +3 to charge is pretty big, and a guaranteed reroll wounds without spells or prayers is amazing. You'll only get to use it on archaon once, but after that you just move another unit near the stoker and fire it off on the next turn.