[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

1 hour ago, willange said:

So why would I use Arch-Deceiver?  It seems like if I put him back there he'll just get blown up (assuming the opponent is positioned for it).  I also can't cast the spells after the teleport, so it just seems limited to me.  Am I reading it wrong?

You've got it right, and honestly I don't think the ability will be used very often. I can see it as a potential threat on backline objectives, but that's risky on turn one. If the scenario is scorched earth you could do it and still deploy near the middle in relative safety while threatening a deployment in the back.

He is a hero so it's possible he could drop at the bottom of one and summon in a unit of Blues as a screen if enough spells have been cast. That's 25 wounds at a -1 to hit and essentially immune to battleshock with destiny dice, so tanky enough to force a decent enemy unit to come over and deal with him. Still pretty worth for 120 points.

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

1 hour ago, BaronBanana said:

Thanks for the advice.  Would bringing in marauders vs acolytes be more beneficial or are fate points and summoning essential?  Bringing marauders would let me take Kairos

Marauders are definitely solid, and moreso with Archaon because he can buff them with his command ability. Losing the 3 spells and ranged attacks would hurt a touch, but it could work either way. Maybe swap two units over to marauders to get the spare points and keep one kairic? That should free up 100 points for Kairos, a spell portal, and the changes I mentioned earlier.

Edit: I should say though, the LoC may be better in the list. The buff for Archaons casting is good, and he uses the pyrofane artifact well.

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

11 minutes ago, BaronBanana said:

Hey all, I'm trying to build a list around Archaon and being relatively new to AoS, I'm not sure how to fully take advantage of the various rules.  

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Pyrofane Cult
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Archaon the Everchosen (800)
- General
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
Lord of Change (380)

Battleline
20 x Kairic Acolytes (200)
20 x Kairic Acolytes (200)
20 x Kairic Acolytes (200)

Total: 1780 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 94
 

I have 220 points to spare and spells to pick for the LoC.  Any advice on how to move forward with a list around Archaon? 

Tossing in the blue scribes helps him get infusion off more consistently, and the chaos sorcerer lord with mark of tzeentch is his bff. Refolls to hit, wound, and save are pretty essential to make sure that you get the most out of the 800 points. Unfortunately that's 230 points, so I would drop 10 kairics and grab a couple endless spells. Cogs are good for Archaon, but a spell portal works too. 

After that make sure you trigger the charge agenda to give him the +1 attacks at some point, and the +1 save is money as well. Oh, and of course using destiny dice to trigger the slayer of kings and auto kill a hero is solid. 

[AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion]

2 hours ago, Rod said:

i have a gameplay question,

if a chaos charriot in ruinbringer warband charges a enemy unit,  which abilities trigger first? , swift dead or ruinbringer warband trigger? 

they trigger at the same time?

what happend if my opponent remove some models with the first trigger and then with the second trigger im out of range

If two abilities happen at the same time, you get to pick which order to resolve them and do so one at a time. In the case that the second ability is no longer valid when you go to resolve it, then it isn't resolved. The precedence for it is in the khorne faq/developer commentary for their tyrants of blood/reapers of vengeance combo.

So in this case you would have to pick one, do the mortal wounds, have the models removed, and then if valid do the second. So probably make sure you're close enough to 4 models if you can and do the ability with the lowest expected damage first.

Edit: haha ninja'd

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

49 minutes ago, Oreaper84 said:

Yeah but why?...Does it really break the game that much? Sure you give a unit -1 to hit in combat, tons of things do that now anyway. Sure you have a  D6 rez, other things do that too. and please dont say that its bc they are multi wound... you can do it to flamers, exalted, screamers, flame chariots, too. They simply decided arbitrarily that Tzaangors needed the nerf. Leets also remember the heavy price tag in all the units it effects 180/200 respectively. 

Honestly it seems like standard operating procedure for GW. They tend to take the strongest things in the previous book, tweak them to be less appealing, and then buff up other things so they're more appealing. Realistically it keeps people buying models as they look to use the new combos or whatever. Lots of people that were running 560 points of enlightened and a shaman are now looking to replace it with 580 of flamers and an exalted.

And let's not forget pinks. Very appealing with a conflagration combo in a changehost, but the requirements for blues have changed. With old summoning you could get away with about an equal number of pinks/blues/brims, but now you pretty much have to buy two boxes of blues for every pink. Oh, and hey look a gaunt summoner on disk (which was pretty much never ever used as the foot version was far better) is now the optimal choice to summon a free unit of them. That little combo costs about 200 dollars Canadian btw, the guy who thought that up probably deserves a raise haha. 

[AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion]

7 minutes ago, Asamu said:

I'm not sure the scribes can learn the S2D lore spells, since they can only learn spells that are possible for them to cast. Needs an FAQ, because the clarification might just be for endless spells. The clarification probably shouldn't be there, or should be worded to specify what it actually means, because if a spell is impossible to cast it wouldn't matter if the model knows it or not (what the rule means by "possible to cast" is unclear).

I think it's just there to pre-empt the inevitable questions about endless spells or other weird interactions, but I agree. Either faq or designer commentary would be nice to clear that up.

[AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion]

One interesting thought for S2D wizards. If they're tzeentch marked then you can ally in the blue scribes to give them a very reliable reroll for their casting. The scribes can also learn their lore spells and cast them later, using the 2+ ability to almost guarantee they go off and can't be dispelled. Not bad for 120 points. I've been thinking about a Cabalists army with 3 wizards marked for tzeentch, the blue scribes, and a bunch of khorne or nurgle stuff to fill out the rest of the list. Seems like it has potential at least.

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

1 hour ago, AverageBoss said:

I think we have better options for fast objective runners for the points though. Marauder Horsemen are only 10 points more. They are only speed 12" vs 16", but they bring 2 more models, an extra wound, and play a double role as a harassment unit (with ranged rend).

Marauder horsemen definitely have their place, but for grabbing objectives the screamers are far more dangerous. Don't underestimate speed 16 and flight. Tossing a command point at them for a 22" run that ignores intervening models and terrain is massive, and even if you never do it in a game your opponent has to keep it in mind. Just putting your screamers opposite an objective while still in your deployment zone still forces your opponent to dedicate a unit or concede that objective entirely, while the screamers are still perfectly safe from all but the fastest opponents. Plus with their speed they can threaten multiple objectives at once, potentially locking down multiple enemy units and giving you advantages elsewhere on the board. 

I'm not saying they're amazing or anything, but for 80 points I think it's worth including one unit in a changehost just for the tactical flexibility they offer. 

[The heavy hand of GW balancing returns...]

1 hour ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

I agree this is generally good advice, but this FAQ also took nearly a month after the book came out. I completely lost interest in building this army and moved on to painting my pre existing Tzeentch army.

Yeah, this has become a huge pain. Waiting to see what super strong ability will get nerfed (nurgle daemon prince) and what other super strong ability will stick around (maraudert teleport with nearly guaranteed long bomb charge) is exhausting. I just finished building my start collecting box last night because I had no idea which way they were going to go with the weapon ruling on chaos warriors. Shouldn't have to wait 3.5 weeks after getting the book to know what the rules actually are.

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

2 hours ago, mmimzie said:

I wouldn't tell anyone thinking of buy more model to build a list with this in mind. This is very liable to change with an FAQ, and change is what our god does.

 

That said by this same token your destiny dice also ignore rend 

Yeah the modifier thing is bizarre. I kind of get why they added it in but I don't think they worked through all the implications of unmodifiable dice. Battleshock is one. Ignoring positive modifiers like the LoC command ability or the Aura of Mutability is another. Not sure if abilities like the Mastery of Magic would trigger either. It does ignore debuffs as well though, so for example if you have a khorne opponent with hexgorger skulls, skull altar and bloodsecrator you just toss out a few destiny dice and your spell is good to go.

The trick is that to fix it they'll either have to remove the modifier bit from destiny dice and Kairos, rewrite how battleshock works entirely, or add a totally non-intuitive exception specifically for battleshock being the one roll that is still modifiable. I'm not really sure what to expect, but if it's affecting the core rules they'll probably wait to do it in the handbook. 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

Someone mentioned this before, but it bears repeating because people keep missing it. Battleshock tests work by taking your roll and modifying it with the number of casualties. In the new rules when destiny dice are used, the roll can no longer be modified or rerolled. That means any destiny dice, from a 1 to a 6, makes horrors immune because the roll is always less than 10. Doesn't matter if you've lost 40 models in one go, that modifier is ignored once you use a destiny dice. 

I'm curious, has anyone tried using horrors outside of the changehost/conflagration combo? I'm loving them there, but I'm getting the feeling that they're not going to be seen outside of it. Sure they take lots of shots, but their range is so small and speed is so low that I just don't see them working without at least a teleport to guarantee one good round of shooting. I'm also curious to see how splitting works out on the tabletop itself. If you space your pinks out a bit it should be easy enough to fit the blues in, but if you clump up for maximum shots off the teleport you leave yourself vulnerable to getting surrounded on the next turn and having blues wasted because there's no space to put them. Easy to assume they're busted right now but they seem like they'll be tough to use in real life.

[AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion]

4 minutes ago, Mutton said:

Disappointed they went the laziest route possible in 'fixing' the Nurgle Daemon Prince. It should have been changed to 1 MW per 6 to hit. But now it's just a useless ability that no one in their right mind would ever use.

Not much different from the tzeentch one to be honest. I get the feeling they never really intended for the daemon prince to be particularly effective, but then the khorne command ability is still there... So I'm not really sure. Maybe it's meant to compensate for not being able to take a khorne marked wizard?  

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

41 minutes ago, Sneeto said:

Let’s talk about Bloodreavers..

they’re gorgeous models and fun flavor. Meatripper axe or reaver blades are both good choices in situations. 

You can whip and goretide them across the board in a 40 block, but their biggest weakness is that they’re too fast! 
 

They will battleshock in droves unless you burn cp using inspiring. They can easily out range even a gorepilgrims bloodsecrator and they really shine when they are in the bloodsecrator wholly within 16 to get the +2 attacks. 
 

I just can’t find a way to use them efficiently and I don’t think they will see competitive play besides tax units and back/deep strike denial. 
 

The biggest loss was the Bloodsecrator losing battleshock immunity on them. Perhaps get rid of the wholly within 16 bonus attack and make it within 16 battleshock immunity. We might then see play from them.
 

I don't know, I've been running bloodreavers in pretty much every list and they're one of my favourite units. Not for combat or resilience, but just as a nice cheap screen that can be surprisingly potent if you toss out a few buffs. If an opponent underestimates them in a dark feast battalion, a little 10 man unit can easily toss out 41 attacks, 3+/4+ with rerolls and rend 1. Sure it's rare that they earn their points back individually, but they're fantastic in enabling your other units to weather an alpha and still strike back.

That being said, 40 man units just don't really make sense right now. Like you said, too flimsy and difficult to buff. I always run them as 10 man units for maximum tithe production and flexibility. 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

8 minutes ago, CJPT said:

Could we potentially get some clarity on this? It'd be good to know if Kairic Acolytes in a Transient Form list could potentially take a nearby unit of Tzaangor above its starting size when they die (as models are being added to that unit, not returned.)

Well I guess just take a look through the rules and see if it says units are capped. As far as I know there's no limit to adding models. The only time that mattered was back when summoning cost points and you couldn't go past the original size without paying for it.

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

14 hours ago, Roark said:

I'm kinda surprised that people aren't appreciating the potential of Chosen, especially in concert with two of the best Slaves units in the game: the Warshrine and Chaos Marauders. I think these 3 make a very good symbiotic trio in, say, a Goretide Gore Pilgrims list.

Chosen are basically budget Skullreapers IMO. One less attack, but faster, with a Bravery debuff and a great buff for Marauders (who, when fighting in two ranks with attacks buffs, are absolutely brutal). At 10 for 280, that's 80 less than the alternative MW infantry hammer option of Skullreapers. With both units under the shadow of a Brazen Fury Warshrine, you have a passive ward save, maybe battleshock immunity, and a range of options to further increase durability or fish for MWs (and additional Rend -1 wounds).

I think these guys are a killer trio.

 

 

I do like them, but I think there are two problems with chosen. The first is their buff is wholly within 12 and only after killing something. That's going to be pretty tricky to pull off, especially if you're taking a big unit of marauders. Plus if you're trying to trigger the buff your opponent will have a chance to hit the marauders first and they die to a stiff breeze.

The second is you have to either buy those unattractive, massively overpriced, finecast miniatures... Or you have to go through a lot of work and extra kits to bash together a custom unit. A decent hobby challenge if that's what you want I guess.

 

[AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion]

20 minutes ago, Spears said:

Just a heads up for any STD players who don't want to lob some glue in their bits box for a chaos spawn, the issue of 40k Conquest out later this month looks to have two chaos spawn on it for around 8 quid.

Man alive I wish they had those in Canada. Sounds like such a good deal.

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

23 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

I have to build my LoC: so, which one kairos or LoC ? (my actual army is most likely tzaangoors heavy : 60 tz, 27 enligh/skyf, 1 shaman, and few other stuff)

I think if you're not going to use the LoC's command ability then Kairos is probably the better choice. The extra cast, access to spells from nearby models (like the thamaturge healing spell) and the more consistent spell all make him pretty solid. He's even slightly better in combat if something goes terribly wrong.

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

1 hour ago, Gwendar said:

Keep in mind you're only teleporting 2 units per turn with that though.. not to say it can't be done without that as Flamers have a 27" Threat range, but any decent player will make sure the non-teleporting Flamer group will be out of range of anything important.

True, although that gets harder for them to do in scenarios with smaller deployment separation. Also if you go second and the flamers dictate where their important models move on the first turn, that's a massive amount of disruption to their game plan. Hmm, you could also do a Herald on disk and then teleport the pinks and a big unit of flamers. You miss out on the +1 to cast for the pink's spell, but otherwise it should still work the same way.

Edit: it also occurs to me a khorne Daemon Prince from S2D might be a nice ally assuming it isn't blocked. Half run and charge rolls could keep the shooters safe for an extra turn.

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

So I'm thinking a changehost with something like 20 pinks, blue scribes, a foot Herald for the aura of mutability, a unit of screamers for mobility, an exalted flamer, and the rest flamers. Fill out battleline with Kairics and add a fatemaster in. The alpha will be bonkers if you can get everyone in the various bubbles. Then 20 pinks can tank whatever is left or you manage a double turn and just nuke the rest. I'm having trouble thinking of what could beat that army... Slaanesh would be hosed. OBR would lose synergy pieces and be left with a few unsupported units. Maybe an alpha strike from orcs getting teleported in?  Big blobs of plaguebearers maybe haha. 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

21 minutes ago, Grotruk said:

Hey ! Didn't see the new Fatemaster ability command. Could be nice !

Came to say this, that command ability is ace. With fly and speed 16 it should be easy enough to place in a good position, so all of our ranged units are going to love him. Shame he doesn't have the daemon keyword.

[AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion]

On 1/2/2020 at 10:55 AM, Zplash said:

Maybe a stupid question but in the warscroll builder I can give Belakor in a nurgle allegiance Armee a nurgle daemon spell out of the nurgle lore... 

This does not work for the epitome for example. 

Did I miss something or is the warscroll builder just wrong in the case for Belakor?

In the Battletome it is described that every wizard in a nurgle Armee can Pic a spell out of the box with the 3 specific keywords: daemon, mortal, rotbringer. 

So the wizard doesn't need to have the nurgle keyword only need to be in my Armee (which he obviously is) and need one of the 3 keywords: daemon, mortal, rotbringer? 

Please tell me that I'm right and I will include him in my armee

 

Edit: Epitome is a daemon too

I don't get it... Maybe Belakor doesn't need to be an nurgle ally anymore? 

Sounds like the warscroll builder is wrong. Be'lakor doesn't have the nurgle keyword or any way to get it so he can only be included in the army as an ally. As far as I know allies don't get access to the allegiance abilities/spells.

[AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion]

6 hours ago, Reisyo said:

What do you think about a Bloodsecrator as an ally for the +1 attack in 16 and the Chaos Lord on foot for the Double activation on archaon? Too slow maybe? you can also play archaon + 2×3 varanguard and some more Support in the slaanesh batallion as 1 drop. Thoughts?

The bloodsecrator works quite well with archaon in khorne where you won't be taking wizards anyway, but the reroll successful spells is a huge bummer for the chaos sorcerer lord. Since you pretty much always want to take a sorcerer Lord with archaon it can make positioning tricky. I have been considering a bloodstoker though. +3 to charge is pretty big, and a guaranteed reroll wounds without spells or prayers is amazing. You'll only get to use it on archaon once, but after that you just move another unit near the stoker and fire it off on the next turn.

[The Rumour Thread]

I assumed it wasn't selling out because the warscrolls still aren't available. Unless you're in for watching a half dozen reviews and piecing together the little bits from each, it's still difficult to tell what the actual warscrolls for the individual models are. Subtle changes to wording or keywords can make or break a model and it can be easy to miss those without seeing the official scroll. Seems like a bad call to buy something when you don't know what you're getting. 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

Yeah it doesn't say the cast comes from the unit leader, the whole unit is the caster. So since a unit is always in range of itself you don't need to clump up or anything. I'm thinking of a unit of 20 pinks in a changehost and the conflagration coven teleporting up with a hero that has aura of mutability. Buff from the spell and from 20 models makes them 60 attacks hitting on 3s. Reroll 1s from a command point means you hit about 46, wounding on 3s means about 31 rend 1 wounds. Then you have 20 pinks in the enemy's face that nets you up to 100 wounds with a 6+/6+. Not too shabby at all. 

If you follow up behind the unit with some flamers to also get the aura of mutability... Yeah you'll be doing some serious damage in a shooting phase. 

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

Out of curiosity, where are people seeing the warscrolls? I watched the GMG review and it was too blurry to make anything out clearly. I've been tearing my hair out waiting for the app to update or the warscroll links to go live on the gw site haha.