Grimrock
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Posts posted by Grimrock
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7 hours ago, Jean 2Valdr said:
Hi everyone !
Question : If i make an army with a mortal general and Rotigus who is also treated as a general with his warmaster trait. Can i benefit from Befouling Host and get Two Feculent Gnarlmaw at the starts of the battle ?
Thank you.
As far as I can tell yes. The rule says he 'is treated as a general' and befouling host says 'A Befouling Host army that has a DAEMON general'. Since it doesn't say something like 'If the model you picked to be your general is a DAEMON' I think you're in the clear.
I got another practice game in. This time I ran a Filthbringers list and put everything in a Battle Regiment:
Orghotts Daemonspew - 300
Rot Coven - 360
rotbringer 1 as the general
- Overpowering Stench
- Arcane Tome
- Rancid Visitations
rotbringer 2
- Cloying Quagmire
rotbringer 3
- Gift of Disease
20 Plaguebearers - 300
20 Plaguebearers - 300
5 Blightkings - 250
3 Plague Drones - 200
2 Pusgoyle Blightlords - 220
Umbral Spellportal - 70I wanted to try out the arcane tome/umbral portal/rancid visitations combo I saw on Goonhammer, get a feel for another maggoth lord, and see if I liked the blightlords or not. A few thoughts:
- Again, disease is solid. Gift of Disease splashed around points really well but it really kicked in once the protracted combats started. One roll at a 4+ doesn't sound like much, but when the opponent starts the turn within 3" of you you're pretty much guaranteed to get 3 disease counters before you even start attacking. 2-3 mortal wounds every turn to most units in the opponent's army starts to add up quickly
- I liked Orghotts, and that 3+ native save on him is bonkers, but I think I'm leaning towards Bloab. The big thing is that Orghotts wants to fight big enemy monsters, but against them the additional 4 attacks at rend 1 generally don't do much (because rend 1). The big rend 2 attacks that are common to both Bloab and Orghotts are where the real damage seems to come from. Since Bloab can do more in the turns he's not in combat I'm leaning in that direction
- Getting two casts (arcane tome) at a +3 (Rot Coven), putting down a portal and then casting Rancid Visitations through it seems pretty broken. It's the only overly strong thing in the book I've found and I wouldn't be surprised if it gets a nerf somehow. I'm guessing Rancid Visitations gets changed down to a 3+ or 4+ for the mortal wounds, it's mind blowingly good at a 2+
- The pusgoyles didn't really blow me away this game. The chip mortals on the charge are nice, but the ranged attack on the plague drones is just so so good. Either way the speed 8 on both units is super helpful for the army
- Blightkings are dumb. I don't know how, but they just seem to take the most ridiculous damage and then shred everything in return. I think the next game I play I'm going to try throwing 20-25 on the table and see how it goes. They don't have the numbers to hold points super well, but they seem to win every fight they get into so far so even if your opponent sneaks up and grabs a point they're going to lose it on the next turn-
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36 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:
I will never ever be able to even begin to do such remarkable justice to this model! That is a fantasitc scheme.
Thanks! He was a lot of fun to work on and I'm really happy with how he turned out. I was so happy when the changes to 3rd edition fixed all my in game issues with him and I could justify picking him up beyond just being a painting project.
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Ok, got a test game and decided to try out a more balanced list with models I mostly own so I got a better feel for the different components. I ran a befouling host with:
Great Unclean One - 495
- blade and bell
- witherstave
- -1 to hit trait
- stream of corruptionBloab Rotspawned - 300
- rancid visitations20 plaguebearers - 300
5 Blight Kings - 250
5 Blight Kings- 2503 Nurglings - 105
3 Plague Drones - 200Lifeswarm - 65
Burning Head - 20I was up against a S2D army running as desploilers with a khorne prince, Be'lakor, tzeentch sorcerer, chaos warriors, marauders, knights, untamed beasts, and a warshrine. My thoughts on the new book so far:
- Diseases are pretty fantastic, and running the witherstave made them amazing. It seems uninspiring on paper, but the chip damage made my opponent use pretty much every heroic action after the first turn on healing important models. When the witherstave made it near units with 7 disease counters it was brutal. Tracking was definitely a bit of a pain, but it's not too terrible if you put a token on units for the first point and then use a dice for any additional. That way after you roll for the mortal wounds you just take away the dice and leave the token
- Blightkings are legitimately scary. So hilariously tanky and when they hit back with 25 attacks, rend 1 and disease counters it can be pretty gross. They don't need any support now and can happily waddle along and take objectives all on their own. 250 is a lot but I do think they're worth it, at least for 1 or two units
- A unit of plague drones was pretty impressive overall. 21 attacks in shooting is nothing to sniff at and 25 in combat is nice, they can really lay out disease counters like no one else. The reduced range on their death heads does suck and it was pretty tricky to maneuver, but I think they definitely have a place
- I don't think the army really needs the lifeswarm anymore. Having 2 wound plaguebearers meant it wasn't resurrecting very well and the d3 healing everywhere with locus of fecundity meant it wasn't really needed for anything else
- Bloab was so great. -1 to cast for enemies and +1 to cast came in handy every turn and he just does so much work in combat. Solo'd Be'lakor like a champ and just healed his way back up to full afterwards. All the maggoth lords are going to be so much fun
- The GUO was fantastic. It sucked losing the +1 to cast with the blade and I think he got off like... one spell all game but he's just so tanky and can do soo much damage now. The bell/blade combo can do amazing work and when he went all out attack/finest hour it was brutal. Tosses out disease counters really well with the nurglings and that fat base with the witherstave does real work. I'm super happy that they didn't just nerf the bell/blade combo into the ground like I thought they would
- Speed 4 definitely sucks. It worked out for me because I ended up playing survival of the fittest, but in a standard long edge deployment it would have been much tougher. Going to need some more testing to see if it becomes a serious problem
- Summoning was... fine. I stuck both trees on the back edge which kept them running but that meant I lost out on the chance for the battle tactic. I didn't actually need to summon anything but I could have gotten drones on turn 3 or a beast/sloppity/spoilpox on turn 2.-
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30 minutes ago, acr0ssth3p0nd said:
I've been amassing a small Slaves to Darkness mortals force, with a Nurgle theme. What overlap is present between my STD Chaos Warriors, Knights, and Marauders, and the new Maggotkin?
Not much unfortunately. Most of the rules in the new book are locked to Maggotkin of Nurgle as opposed to the current book which was primarily anything with Nurgle. You can still bring in slaves units with the mark of nurgle into a maggotkin army, but they don't really get a lot of synergy. It isn't nothing, there's random stuff like Festus can heal a friendly model d3, but that's about it. Also going the other way, Nurgle models will likely make shockingly bad allies. Their points all take them having permanent healing and a ward save into account, but you only get those when you're in allegiance. There's really nothing in this book worth allying over into other factions.
9 minutes ago, Izotzuhure said:Are the Glotkin spell and the Daemon lore spell that give +1 Wound different? I assume they are cause having 30 Plaguebearers on 4 wounds would be too much.
They are different yeah, the daemon lore spell can only target maggotkin daemons and the glottkin spell can only target maggotkin mortals. One interesting point though, I was thinking the glottkin spell was pretty useless since you can't target marauders with it anymore. However if you put it on blightkings it'll set them to 5 wounds and (I think anyway) make them count as 2 models on an objective. Not too shabby for a 6 to cast.
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For those worried about it I'd definitely say try a few games out. I agree a lot of models seem a little lackluster at the moment, but there are some absolute gems and there are waaay too many rules to wrap your head around just at face value. The new wheel, disease counters, new artifacts, traits, constant healing, etc. etc... it's just bonkers. Try your best to just take a fresh look at the army from the top down rather than trying to think of what's changed. For example you could get hung up on how the combat potential of plague drones has basically disappeared (no bonus for being near heros, don't benefit from the scrivener, no more GUO command ability), but then miss the fact that 3 models can put out 21 shots at a 3+/3+ doing a ton of damage and setting up a bunch of disease counters that then combo with the witherstave on a GUO. Not to mention the fact that 8" is absolutely clutch for the army since everything is so darn slow now. I'm really looking forward to playing it and seeing how it all comes together.
One thing that's sticking in my brain is summoning armies might have a pretty solid chance now. A GUO with bell, befouling host for an extra tree, horticulus for an extra tree, nurglings dropping in for more points, and I think there were artifacts and traits to buff it a bit more if needed. Take some beasts for 'cheap' battleline and buffs with horticulous... honestly it sounds pretty neat. Not having any good way to lean into summoning was one of my big complaints in the last book so it's nice to see that change. My only real sadness is I don't think the glottkin are worth the 700 points. They're good, but 700 points is a real steep price point for their current use. I'll try them out but i'm not holding out a lot of hope.
Edit:
Here's a list I'm thinking of to push into summoning. Should generate 8 points in the first round and hopefully around 10 in each round after that, so you're getting a spoilpox/sloppity on turns 1/2 and then some extra bearers or drones or whatever on later turns. Running in befouling host of course:
GUO
- blade and bell
- witherstave, trait for -1 to hit, stream of corruption for the spell
Horticulous
4x individual Beasts of Nurgle
20 Plaguebearers
20 Plaguebearers
3 Plague drones-
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I think both for me would have to be Be'lakor. Just such a great kit. Absolutely gorgeous to look at with such a great presence that really seems to capture the character. Building was a breeze as it went together really well with the chains in particular being an inspired bit of model design and execution. A lot of fun to paint as well without being so busy that it was overwhelming.
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25 minutes ago, peasant said:
IS fine to post a warscroll leaked?
Not sure, there were shots of the stats you get along with the assembly instructions in the rumor thread. If it's the full warscrolls then it'd probably safer to just write up a quick summary instead of full pictures.
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1 hour ago, peasant said:
Its strange so little articles about our faction...
Strange and sad
Strange, sad, frustrating, and concerning. This book should be a big deal. First non release book of 3rd, first book in about 4 months. Not only that but as far as the rumors go it sounds like a pretty monumental shift from the last book with a ton of new rules to go over. My mind is absolutely blown that GW wasn't all over this release. I know tomorrow isn't far away but I just don't get it.
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47 minutes ago, Gistradagis said:
GW is generally so-so at pointing higher wounds, so PBs at 2W might mean they'll become... really expensive. Like, don't be surprised if PBs are suddenly 160 or so.
I'm really curious how they go with the points actually. My thought is it's a whole new edition, so what we might have expected in the previous one may have no grounds on how models are pointed now. So far this edition we've seen the damage output go up pretty significantly in stormcast and with the warclans, and some decent increases in resilience in stormcast (moving to a base 3+ save for units with shields, and a 2+ save for annihilators). Not to mention the core rules bringing increased resilience to most factions. Sure 2 wounds at a 6+/5++ sounds pretty great, but it won't make good use of armor stacking. Assuming the trend of increased damage from the first two books continues their newfound toughness may quickly become rather unimpressive in the same way their old -2 to hit did when factions started getting more mortal wounds and re-rolls.
I definitely expect a points increase, but I'm not really sure how much. 160 sounds fair, but much beyond that and I'd be pretty worried about their long term viability. There's only so many points you can pay for a unit that's essentially just a blob of wounds, especially one that only moves 4" (assuming we lose the bell along with the rest of our movement tricks, or the sword gets a massive buff).
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6 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:
You can have good flavor with simple mechanics too, but its important if you have complexity for that complexity to actually matter and contribute something to the army. Gutrippaz Skareshields, and the Swampcalla shaman's poisons and elixirs are perfect examples of bad complexity.
My issue with the nurgle one is that it seems excessively wordy for how impactful it is. I imagine the number of disease counters will tie into their summoning somehow too, at which point maybe there's enough justification for it?
IMO I'd have rather seen the mechanic just keep track of if something is diseased or not.It's almost like this confusion and concern about a core mechanic could be alleviated with some sort of... message from GW? Some method of regular communication they could establish between themselves and us, the customers. Something where they could talk about new and upcoming rules. Who knows, might even help build sales by generating customer engagement and excitement instead of leaving everyone hanging and assuming the worst from their products. Maybe they should get working on that.
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I'm legitimately surprised we haven't gotten a Nurgle article today. I mean it's the preview week for the first AoS book in about 4 months, the first non release army, and we've gotten one article? Normally at this point I'd assume they've just phoned the book in and there's nothing exciting to post about, but all the leaks and rumors point to it being a really significant change with a ton of new stuff. Why in the world isn't GW talking about it?
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9 minutes ago, Popisdead said:
woot, love it. Not being sarcastic, I love that it appears Craftworld is getting some love.
oh man that's an bad head. Not to pick on you, kudos if you like the design. I wouldn't be telling that ugly thing my deepest desires.
I wish they had have done that head from the... how was Malekith's dad? Aenarion? The pencil art from the 6th edition High Elf book. Man that was a wicked keeper.
Funny enough this IS that keeper. At least their interpretation of it applied to the new keeper body. I agree it doesn't look anywhere near as good as the art, but it is N'kari.
Also no Nurgle article yet today? Are we actually going to get a genestealer cult article but no Nurgle one?
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2 hours ago, Higolx said:
Not really? Leave a d6 at the side of enemy unit and use that to count. If you reach 7 you can use something else but Im not so sure how common getting to 7 is going to be.
Frankly I loved it. Its really translates to game well the idea of getting sicker as you fight nurgle
Actually with the way it degrades I think it might be better to do it in reverse. As soon as any unit has any disease you give it a token of some sort (since it'll stay with them for the rest of the game at a minimum of 1) and then you grab a d6 if you add any more throughout the turn. In battleshock you can take the dice away and leave the token.
Hard to speak to the strength right now, but it seems ok. It looks like a poor trade for the wheel, but it is very thematic and it definitely plays to a war of attrition where nurgle gradually wears away at the opponent. Spells and artifacts could make a huge difference in how much damage you cause throughout a game so we'll have to wait and see what we get.
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4 minutes ago, spenson said:
You don't remove one point, you set the number of tokens to one. This means that the unit will never get rid of them but you can go from 7 to 1.
Oops, read that wrong. Well that is a pretty huge difference, I'll edit my post. Thanks!
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56 minutes ago, Turragor said:
Hoping the disease counters have other effects. It's a very strange mw mechanic otherwise. I imagine it'll have other juicy benefits.
The first 7 x 6s (on a single unit) are all that count for a 50% chance of 1 mw before battleshock.
Well a unit can get topped up pretty quickly in protracted combat (2 per turn plus however many 6's). An extra 3-4 mortal wounds every round is nothing to sneeze at and considering how durable we're supposed to be with everything having disgustingly resilient I wouldn't be surprised if most combats take at least 3 rounds to fully resolve.
I'm assuming at least one of the spells will be something along the lines of 'target unit rolls for disease immediately as if it were the battleshock phase'. The artifact will probably be something along the lines of 'this model gives 2 disease points instead of 1', but might be something like 'pick one enemy unit within 3, it immediately has 7 disease points'.
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42 minutes ago, Archibald said:
Why is nobody talking about the missing rules previews for Nurgle? Custodes and GSC got theirs last week besides the fact, that they are released next year...
I want an extremly vague and very limited WC-glimse at what is to come.😄
This! I've been refreshing like crazy all day hoping for... anything really. I'm finally ready to jump on the hype train after a 2 month delay and I get nothing. I know we'll see the whole book on Saturday, but come on GW. I've waded through all the lame articles for ages and now that I'm actually excited about something you can't even give me a 'Nurgle sorcerers through the ages'? A 'Community paints our models for us so we don't have to bother but look how cool they are'? Not even a 'Nurgle lore you all know already but let's repeat it because it uses up an article for the day'?
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On 11/22/2021 at 3:29 AM, spenson said:
Rumors from a rather reliable source:
All the models get a 5++ (don't know what happens to the harbinger). GUO should get +2W but it isn't confirmed yet. This could explain the cost increase for the glotkin and GUO.
New allegiance ability: on unmodified 6 to hit, all the models in the army put a disease token on the enemy. At the end of the turn roll a dice for each token. For each 4+, remove the token and the unit takes 1MW. A unit can't have more than 7 tokens at a time.
Plaguebearers get +1w -1 save and the banner only brings back 1 model when you roll on 1 on your battleshock test.
The tree loses run+charge but gains a new rule. that we haven't heard of yet.
edit: someone just posted this in rumors
Based on the visible battle tactics in the preview today it looks like we have some confirmation of this. At least it looks like disease counters are definitely a thing and there's a tactic for killing models with them and one that looks like it has to do with spreading them around.
The plaguebearer change sounds pretty solid assuming nothing else changes on their scroll and their points don't go way up. Not sure how I feel about the tree though, losing run and charge is going to deeply change the way we play. If the wheel is completely gone as well then the only speed buff we'll have is the bell (assuming it doesn't go as well). Unless blight kings get a major damage buff I could see them disappearing from the tables. Too slow and the plaguebearers sound like the better tanky option.
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2 hours ago, novakai said:
If I remember correctly the SoB and Seraphon WD where still largely still focus on Ghur while only the recent CoS one had Ulgu
I am assuming that they exploring both realm like they did last edition with Shyish and Hysh last edition but it still be mostly Ghur/beast focus for much of the edition.
I be surprise if we switch realm next GHB because I doubt half of the armies will get their new book to play with the current rule set by then.
Edit: also it probably won’t happen until Harrowdeep season two is over anyway
I don't know, as soon as I saw it tied to the GHB I assumed it'd be switching every year. If they were going to keep it around for multiple years then why put it in the annual publication? Besides it makes total sense, it's a quick and simple way to switch up the meta and drive sales on different kits. Maybe next year we move over to the realm of metal and all the extra resources mean it's cheap and easy for armies to build up huge armies. Now battleline units are getting bonuses for battle tactics and there's a special spell to give +2 speed to battleline units and a command ability that gives +2 save to battleline units. People go out and buy a whole bunch of new battleline and maybe that slow squisy unit is looking like a much more viable purchase. 2023 and we're off to Ulgu where all the intrigue and shady dealings mean more and more commanders are popping up trying to make an empire, so we're buffing heroes.
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27 minutes ago, novakai said:
A relevant rumor as of right now is that there will be an Avatar of Khaine and it is a huge model.
unsure if it get added to DoK right away though
Keep in mind the DoK Khaine and the eldar Kaela Mensha Khaine are two totally different entities with some thematic overlap (unlike chaos which is the exact same in both games). There has never been an official crossover model for them and it's unlikely that a new avatar released for eldar in 40k will ever make it to AoS.
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5 hours ago, Gaz Taylor said:
+++ Mod Hat On +++
Back to rumours folks. Pretty sure there’s some more Maggotkin stuff not mentioned yet. 😉Anything to share that hasn't already been discussed here? This is pretty much my only source of news, I didn't know there was something that hasn't been mentioned.
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15 minutes ago, Talas said:
More rumors from 4chan. I don't know what to think anymore...
Some interesting thoughts in there that seem to line up with what I'd expect. I'm thinking the impact of Covid will be felt for a long time due to the way that GW works so far in advance. Sure shipping has been disrupted recently, but we can't forget they probably lost months and months of development for future products due to lockdowns. Release schedules may be impacted for years and I wouldn't be surprised to see 3rd last until 2025/26 as a result. That being said, it's weird the person is so sure about contents of a starter box that won't release for another 4.5 years. As far as we know GW likes to operate about 2-3 years out, it's tough to believe that they're so sure what will be in something that is so far away. The random insult to MWG also makes it sound like a troll more than anything.
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1 hour ago, Enoby said:
This is the exact issue I've had (and am still having). I don't mind taking never before used units, but I do mind being asked to use said units in a bad way.
My list was something like (at 750pts)
- Chaos Lord
- Chaos Sorcerer lord
- Darkoath Chieftain
- Darkoath Warqueen
- Untamed Beasts
- Untamed Beasts
- Spire Tyrants
- Chaos Spawn
- Chaos Spawn
(Path to Glory so 2 extra heroes allowed from territory)
It is, narratively, the dregs of warriors and cultists (hence no armoured S2D units) gathering under the banner of a Chaos Lord and Sorcerer.
So not exactly the most intimidating list in the world, and when it's going against Blood Knights and Goregruntas on the regular, it feels bad to be asked to not summon or to play more 'casually' (which, when asking for elaboration, seemed to be playing objectives less, less screening and less retreating).
It's a tricky one, because I do see their point - it is very frustrating to feel as if a game never goes your way and summoning does seem blatantly unfair in a 'common sense' way (as in, "wait, so you get points for free? I had to pay for my units!"). But I think blaming an opponents list rather than trying to look for weaknesses doesn't help someone improve as a player (should they want to), and can diminish the fun of the opponent.
In addition, intentionally playing badly can feel quite patronising and really takes the wind out of your sails if you find out you only won because someone let you.
Maybe it's just a consequence of playing Narrative? It's not like your opponent can quickly change their list or tactics for next week to make it a better game, they're kind of locked into what they have. Your list definitely hits like wet tissue paper and will crumple about as fast, but it does skew on bodies pretty hard and I can easily see a number of lists at that point level that wouldn't stand a chance regardless of tactics. I get not wanting to play down though, these kind of mismatches have been one of the big reasons why I've avoided stuff like Path to Glory. Too easy to make the wrong decisions and get stuck being too powerful and having no fun or being too weak and having no fun.
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2 hours ago, Kurrilino said:
I am absolutely fine with that.
For years we have been this low tier army dealing with this BS
Make it 2+ 3++ if someone asks me
I don't know if I'd go that far, but I am perfectly happy to see the Glottkin become something scary. They've been pretty bad for quite a while, generally needing at least a harbinger to follow them around and keep them alive. It'll be nice to see them standing on their own for once and hopefully they'll get a solid offensive buff as well. The biggest thing I'm worried about is how difficult it is to balance a model at that point level (assuming they're actually going to be 700 points). At that level a model is generally overpowered (ex. Archaon now) or disliked and barely ever taken (ex. Archaon before the S2D book was released). I don't want a total OP auto pick, but I do want them to be good enough to not feel like I'm handicapping the list by bringing them. I'll just cross my fingers I guess.
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1 hour ago, Fyrenn said:
Mm, date-wise, that's a dangerous game tho. There are so many shipping delays expected, if they have them available to release before the 18th, i would expect them to do it by the 11th. Shipping is already a mess, and if people suspect they might not get items in time for the holidays they may not get it right away...
True, but keep in mind that the release is, as of now, extremely small. One model and a book. Even if they did somehow fail to ship by the 18th due to holiday issues the book is released for free to everyone on YouTube through reviewers. Really all that people would miss out on is a resculpt for a model most nurgle players already own.
Plus it was originally planned to drop in October but got pushed back. If an extra month and a half can't help them guarantee a release of this size then I don't think anything will help them.
AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion
in Chaos
Posted · Edited by Grimrock
I like pretty much everything you said, but just as a quick point I don't think you can coalition in warcry cultists right now since they don't have the 'Mark of Chaos' keyword. Too bad really because untamed beasts would be pretty great. I think having a couple units marauder horsemen or maybe just foot marauders would probably help a ton with early objectives but I worry they'd make really obvious targets and just get nuked off the board since they're so squishy.
For the plaguebearer discussion: I do think they're worse than they were overall but honestly they were hugely overtuned in order to prop up an old janky book. Their resilience was ridiculous and the damage output with all the buffs was staggering when it lined up. The real question we need to ask is are they good enough now. They provide bodies in an army that can lack them and needs all the help it can get on objectives. That's hugely important. They're resilient enough to last 3-4 rounds against everything but the hardest of hitters, which means that they're going to be tossing out enough disease points to cause 6-8 mortal wounds while they fight. They still get the sloppity and spoilpox buffs and those can be brought in for free much easier due to the reduced summoning costs on those units. They are super slow though and of course their standard damage is terrible so they're pretty much entirely reliant on disease or buffs to do anything. Personally I don't think you can make an army of them anymore, but I do think they're going to be a part of most lists since they're our best objective grabbers.