Poryague

I don't know about stacking. But potentially benefiting from cover is cool I will take a 3+ save an some infinite range abilities.

If the 10 Wound rule now applies to cover that would mean the Voice gets cover. The reason I say this is the 10 Wound thing showed up on sylvaneth army terrain piece as well monster and flying rule disappeared. This may be a new thing throughout.

The silver bullet at this point would be point drops across multiple units which is the most likely. Unfortunately I don't see that happening until December. I don't see the July points adjustment having to many adjustments.

Except not all armies will benefit equally. Slaanesh can generate a lot of cp it is on the higher end. Add in the twins you get infinite range and 1 free cp use each player turn. We will benefit more from it then most. Most model rules are ok. The hosts probably needed some reworking or new ones introduced. As well as the buff pieces and spells being easier to use. Though the worst offender is points which hopefully go down because it's to restrictive.

I think the Voice could be more powerful depending on command changes with its ability to have infinite range. Shrinking of the table size may explain some of the ranges being awkward. Also maybe they changed the order of the phases.

So the table size went down 48x72 to 44x60. We got extra command stuff to do which may change the value of the twins depending on what they allow. If reaction commands do anything interesting having unlimited range from the Voice could be really useful.

if 2 keepers require more cp invaders seems to generate a lot of cp. May be worth a try if the list is cp hungry. While God seekers may lean more heavily towards summoning. Intentional or not 1 host being a good cp farmer for cp heavy list while the other is better at summoning and making those 9in charges is not bad.

Dok had small changes that brought some rules in line with wholly within rules. They had all point drops across the board for rules that simply made the book behave as other books. Almost all key units to the army had 10 to 70 point drop. Mindrazer no longer requires a bravery check it works on charge with -1 rend and +1damage so the gets cranked to 2 damage rend 1 on charge casting value went to 8 to cast. Heall you can get unit of witch aelves to rend 2 2 damage. The command traits and artifacts changed slightly it was only 3 of them. Vince Venturella does a good job explaining it. Basically DoK is and has been strong with high offense and defense now with more bodies. Some list could see more then 200 points free up to get more stuff. It's night and. Day between the books. There was no brining DoK to fat middle it feels like it shot to the top with good rule design and aggressive on pointing.

Looking at both the dok and HoS. The difference is insane. DoK is just win. The disparity here makes no sense you can look at both books and it's like they didn't bother looking at the other books. This disparity happens way to often.

Not surprising dok are a very synergistic army. The units and aligience abilities feed of eachother very well and is very cohesive Slaanesh not so much there are interesting builds that could be done but points will hamper things.

This the best way to get shardspeaker within range. Also get glutos across the board quick. If you run glutos with fiends well they can just appear in range and now you have a debuff on that makes -2 to hit fiends unit in your enemies face as well as debuff to enemy spell casts.

Almost forgot about the everchosen book there are additional modifiers for each host. Some of those may be useful. Like invaders command ability to get +1 to save in combat once per turn and the ability to come in from a board edge. God's seeker command ability of if you charge unmodified 6 to save rolls in combat kicks back a mortal wound. Pretenders ca ignore the first 2 wounds in combat once per turn

Save Kos +1 to hit Glutos Glutos rr hit from LoP Kos +1 attack on claws 2+ 5.17 5.21 6.61 5.54 3+ 6.75 7.51 9.53 7.22 4+ 8.33 9.81 12.44 8.9 5+ 9.92 12.1 15.36 10.58 6+ 10.67 13.98 17.75 11.22 - 10.67 14.19 18.03 11.22 Looks like +1 attack on the claws does more to close the gap.

I didn't give kos something because there a lot of choices depending on what you want the kos to do and which host. Obviously if hard focus on killing you can close the gap like by giving kos +1 attack for the claws. Then rr to hit from a lord of pain on Glutos would be hard to close the gap on.

The army is to much glass and does not hit hard enough. One way to play that stands out is pinning and harrasing units. Use daemon heroes to pin units. A kos can pin a more dangerous unit and chip at it. Glutos can slow down a dangerous unit. archers grab objectives shoot anything in range maybe kill some foot heroes , shoot at soft unit, support fire for a daemon hero is pinning a unit. Then our slower or more squishy combat units come in to help. So it's all about stopping the opponent from moving and soften the enemy units then come in for the kill. This would also generate dp. The main problem is points to pull it off with the right combination of units. Also there are armies this won't work with to well.

Save Kos Glutos Glutos rr hit from LoP 2+ 4.36 5.21 6.61 3+ 5.69 7.51 9.53 4+ 7.03 9.81 12.44 5+ 8.36 12.1 15.36 6+ 9 13.98 17.75 - 9 14.19 18.03 Gluto does do more damage then a kos is more survivable offers more to the army. With a lord of pain ca he shoots way past a kos. You can also activate him again with kos.

Save Chosen Chosen buffed Myrmerdish Myrmerdish buffed 2+ 5.19 8.76 3.56 5.16 3+ 6.67 11.26 4.58 6.77 4+ 8.15 13.76 5.6 8.39 5+ 9.63 16.26 6.62 10 6+ 11.11 18.77 7.64 11.61 - 11.11 18.77 7.64 11.61 Chosen are 140 and myrmerdish are 150. Chosen buffed by sorcerer. Myrmerdish buffed by lord of pain and shard bringer survived to get off plus 1 to wound. I would say even adjusting for summoning they are 10-30ish points over.

It's not about wanting the sorcerer lord it's about the purpose of the piece. They both support pieces. With the way the shard works it would have to come down in points significantly to make more sense. Summoning is just OK its nothing to be supper excited about. Your not seeing stuff summoned until probably round 3 unless you lean into it. Only 1 unit is showing up a turn once you have dp its more strategic now which is good and a much better play experience. It seems some units are being pointed based off of the old allegiance abilities.

Sorcerer lord is a 4+ all the time. So I would say on average sorcerer lord is more survivable. Even if she can tag a single unit with the debuff you have to be dangerously close. Range is the issue. Yes sorcerer lord buff mortals only but the buffs are strong. Point at a unit rr all saves the spell rr hit and wounds. Is much stronger then a +1 to w or -1 to w. Also there is a 40 point gap. So targeting 1 hedonite unit should be OK

Save Auralan sentinel 18in 120p Auralan sentinel 120p 36in Auralan sentinel 18in 120p 5+mw Auralan sentinel 120p 36in 5+mw 2+ 2.5 2.22 3.89 3.61 3+ 2.92 2.5 4.17 3.75 4+ 3.33 2.78 4.44 3.89 5+ 3.75 3.06 4.72 4.03 6+ 4.17 3.33 5 4.17 - 4.17 3.33 5 4.17 Save Blood stalkers 24in140p Namarti 18in 120 Namarti 9in 120 Skinks 120p 16in 2+ 2.78 0.42 1.25 0.37 3+ 3.33 0.83 2.5 0.74 4+ 3.89 1.25 3.75 1.11 5+ 4.44 1.67 5 1.48 6+ 5 2.08 6.25 1.85 - 5 2.5 7.5 2.22 Save Blissbarb 160 18in Blissbarb seeker 180 18in copy 2+ 2.22 2.08 3+ 3.33 2.5 4+ 4.44 2.92 5+ 5.56 3.33 6+ 6.67 3.75 - 6.67 3.75 Damge wise compared to some other archers the foot bows are ok. Far as armor our foot bows are the only one who can't get a 5+ save. Only ours in this list run and shoot.

The bullgor on there own are significantly stronger then slangor using euphoric killers and there charge mechanic. You better off taking bullgors they seem to fill the same roll better.

Chaos sorcer is 110 Shardspeaker is 150 They both are force multipliers but 1 is much worse then thee other. Change shard to buff hour units with the spell and Ability or the ability buff our units and the spell range is increased to 18.

Save Bullgor twin axe Bullgor great axe Slangor Slangor charge 2+ 4.31 4.83 2.22 3.11 3+ 5.86 6.25 3.19 4.44 4+ 7.41 7.67 4.15 5.78 5+ 8.95 9.08 5.11 7.11 6+ 10.5 9.33 5.78 8 - 10.75 9.58 5.78 8 This is bullgors vs slangor and slangor is using euphoric killers. Bullgors are a shock troop I don't know what slangor is doing. Solutions. 1. Increase claw rend or damage maybe both. 2. The points come down to maybe 110 maybe 100.

I meant unit vs unit that's what that comparison is as well as similar pointed units. I also understand looking at just damage is not perfect as well. Its more complicated with a unit that is somewhere in between offense and defense. The 3 culprits that caused the problems have been toned down significantly. Stopping pile in is OK its situational and ONLY daemon heroes can use it. Summoning as written appears to allow 1 summon a turn so there is no holy ****** moment as 700+ points appear all at once and slamm into you. The kos ca only targets other units so to use it on a kos you need 2. Yet some units points still went up a lot with subtle changes if any. Some lost abilities and saw no change in points.

Probably better to compare them to models in same point range. Save Twin soul Tzangor on disc Twin soul rr Tzangor on disc rr 2+ 1.78 3.64 2.67 7.32 3+ 3.56 5.5 5.33 11.08 4+ 5.33 7.36 8 14.85 5+ 7.11 9.22 10.67 18.61 6+ 8.89 11.08 13.33 22.38 - 10.67 11.17 16 22.58 So that would be tzangor on disc. Also it should just be model to model. I am sure though that allegiance abilities add to cost but for now we should ignore that sense this harder to weight. So under model vs model of equivalent points. Twin 170 is .047 Tzang disc 180 is .082 This also means they are competing with models like eels etc.