[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

I played a game this week using a ballistabomb (deepstriking 4x ballistas and an ordinator). 

IF you can get in within 18" they are really scary, but it takes your opponent exactly one turn to react to this, and then you are stuck taking pot-shots at 36" because they are sloooooooooooooooooooooooow, and running aint really an option since then you are just wasting away. 

Any decent opponent will easily screen you and limit you to bad targets, and with how the new rules  for Sylvaneth wyldswoods works, just forget about it.

I would bring 1-2 max, but I don't plan to bring any anytime soon. 

Edit: That deepstrike is 540 points btw. So, is it scarier than 4x Fulminators?

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

51 minutes ago, DanielFM said:

In fact it's extremely weak to the point of pointlessness. Either they kill your model with exact wounds, or it does nothing.

Disappointing, isn't it?

I thought it would be, but it turns out stuff die on their exact wound quite a lot. I had a game yesterday where I triggered the cycle in every turn (until my LA died ?). I also used it to negate 1 incoming damage in my opponents last activation in the combat phase if I hand't used it already. It might sound iffy but we had a situation where this saved one evocator, meaning 4 attacks and ~1 mortal wound more to dish back.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

49 minutes ago, PJetski said:

There's also the Soulstrike Brotherhood that includes a Ballista.

And it's not necessarily true that a ballista is always better than an ordinator. It depends on what you are going to do with those 40 points. It also depends what buffs you have available for the ballistas - being able to reroll hits, or have +1 attack changes the relative value equations.

There are also hard limits on Artillery and Leaders that need to be considered, and game modes besides Battlehost Matched Play. In a Vanguard game you can only take 2 Ballistas, and an Ordinator adds a lot of value there.

The soulstrike is arguably even worse than the hailstorm (if you are using it primarily for the ballista buff). 1 extra attack on a ballista is nothing (again, for the price), tho it is quite substantial on an a group of 9+ Castigators. 

That said I get the point you are trying to make, it's not all black and white. I just want to make clear that even in the battallions, more ballistas come out on top of an Ordinator. 

btw you can actually run 8 ballistas at 2000 points since you can ally in Stormcasts  and amount of artillery isn't limited by allies (Or are they?), and they are still buffable by an Ordinator. (Please pm me if anyone actually does this ❤️ )

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

3 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Nothing

I'm saying that the battalions only buff a single ballista, which raises the value of the Ordinator in the Ordinator vs Another Ballista discussion

The hailstorm battallion is a lie.
Rerolling failed hits after something has been wounded by castigators with an ordinator tax. It's minimum 340 points.
It's more efficent to just spend all the points on more ballistas as: more shots > rerolls.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

7 minutes ago, Shinzra said:

Would you guys recommend Vanguard Palladors in a squad of 6 or 2 units of 3?

Depends on what you are bringing them for. If you want them to ninja grab objectives I'd go with 2x3 but if you want a fast meatshield I'd go with 1x6.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

4 minutes ago, Sev said:

except that, if i'm right, by choosing the Hammers of Sigmar stormhost, you couldn't use the staff as artefact (since you didnt had any batallion) 
Correct? 

That is correct. 

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

17 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

The evocators can have a staff, is it worth it?

If you are fielding them in units of 10 I would give half of them staffs, better odds of everyone hitting in melee then. 

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

7 minutes ago, barjed said:

Can the Prime do a double attack with his Cometstrike Sceptre and the Anvils' Heroes of Another Age Command Ability?

No, it's no longer a missile weapons. It's an ability that is used in the shooting phase.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

12 minutes ago, Caladancid said:

Are you sure about this? I don't see any language about doing the addition each turn.

The old scroll said "for each battle round" the Prime was in reserves you got +2. The new scroll does not have that same language. I think it is a one time bonus.

You get the bonus for each round.

"At the end of the movement phase you must declare whether this model will remain in reserve or strike from the Heavens.
If this model remains in reserve, add 2 to the Attacks characteristic of Ghal Maraz until the end of the battle."

So you declare at the end of each of your movement phases, getting +2 attack each time.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

55 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

1. Does the celestant prime get +4 attacks on turn 3, or just 2? Opponent questioned this but it seems the sam as before to me.
2. Do the raptors get to rapid fire when striking from the heavens? Not sure based on vague FAQ wording.
3. Can you use more than 1 command point trying to bring a unit of liberators back? Gut says you get one chance when the last one dies then they’re gone forever.

 

1. It's the same, +2 per turn
2. Yes.
3. No idea, I would rule it as once since you use the ability and roll when a unit is destroyed, not when you failed the 5+ roll

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

4 hours ago, Bellfree said:

They can be taken in other stormhosts, look at Lady Atia's blog for confirmation. Second, most of the named heroes are really iffy anyway. Neave is solid but works just fine without the Hammers' tactics(and is still better than the generic Zephyros), Gavriel I guess is really strong after the rewrite and Vandus is actually a consideration now but Astreai and The mage guy aren't anything special compared to the generic guys. Basically, the special characters aren't good enough to be a 'swaying' factor unless you already really like the Hammers of Sigmar stormhost rules.

 

They can be taken into your list regardless of which Stormhost you use, but they still retain their stormhost-keyword (pg 117 in the battletome - Stormhosts) and therefore will not buff your units unless they also have that same stormhost-keyword, since their buffs specifically targets Hammers of Sigmar.

So if you want Gavriel for example to give your units +3 on the charge you have one options: Use the Hammer of Sigmar Stormhost

Edit: after re-reading the allegiance rules you will have to select a Stormhost in order to get the additional keyword. If you do not select a stormhost, to get Staunch for example, you will not get the additional keyword, like Hammers of Sigmar. 

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

14 minutes ago, Trayanee said:

I have been thinking about such a list too, but I am worried about spending that many points on Dracolines, who without the charge don't look worth their cost especially against hard hitting fulminators. The celestial lightning arc has a lot worse power for point ratio on them than on their not mounted brethren and I feel like with just rend -1  and/or no rend at all they won't be able to take down well-armored targets on their alpha strike. Do you think its possible to complement them well to make a semi-competitive list?

It seems like Gavriel, LAoDL, two units of Dracolines and a full unit of Sequitors to be empowered are a given especially with hammers CA available. That's already 1360 points and 5 units to be put into Scions. I was thinking about Judicators to fill the remaining battlelines but that leaves me with just 320 points for support heroes and some objective takers. That's probably a Heraldor and?

That sounds like it will be one crowded drop, 7 dracolines with support is already quite the footprint, I feel that 20 sequitors on top of that is going to work out sub-par, especially if your opponent knows how to screen. Shouldn't you be empowering the dracolines if you invest 600 points into them? I definetly think you should bring a heraldor to drop with them, for the retreat/charge combo. 

An alternative to the draco-bomb would be 20 sequitors and 5-10 Evocators dropping down with Gavriel and a Vexillor. They'll do less damage turn 1 but I think they have more staying power than dracolines. 

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

18 minutes ago, Warfiend said:

I've thought of something ridiculous, yet there are no rules I know off that say it's not allowed to do this;


A wizard on a Dais Arcanum on a Balewind Vortex (accompanied by cogs because why not right). Now my Knight-Incantor can cast three spells and unbind two, it gets +2 to save resulting in a 1+ save and she can reroll failed saves. But wait, it could get even better (I'm somewhat confused here), what if instead of putting a wizard on a Dias Arcanum on a Balewind Vortex, you put a wizard on a Balewind Vortex on a Dais Arcanum.

It reads "A wizard on a Balewind Vortex can not move" but it also reads "...the caster and the Balewind Vortex are treated as a single model" and the Dais Arcanum reads "A model on a Dais Arcanum has a Move characteristic of 12" and can fly".  One could argue that "can not move" negates any move characteristic, but then again a "wizard on a Balewind Vortex" isn't a "wizard on a Balewind Vortex on a Dais Arcanum".

Madness! It would take you atleast two turns though since a wizard can only attempt cast one endless spell per turn. Three turns if you don't have a wizard buddy to set up the cogs next to your Tower of Power(TM) 

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

From the rules:

NAMED CHARACTERS
"Named characters such as Nagash, Archaon and Alarielle are singular and mighty warriors, with their own personalities and artefacts of power. As such, these models cannot have a command trait or artefact of power."

So there should be no limit on named characters for mount traits, prayers or spell lores.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

8 minutes ago, PJetski said:

So the Warrior Brotherhood is still legal...

Setting up a unit with Lightning Strike is different than setting it up with Scions, so RAW you can do a 1 drop null deployment army

Same goes for the Skyborne Slayers. We still havn't seen our Battletomes FAQ yet tho, it might change that.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

Someone did the math earlier and swords come out on top by small margin. If you are going to buff their chance to-wound swords definetly come out on top. 

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

9 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

And this is precisely why they had to "nerf" some of the SC abilities as @Bradipo322, @chordand others have maligned.  The synergies would have been out of control if many of them had remained unchanged.

I am all for it, I think the changes are welcome. So far the only change I find is weird is the LCoF that has to be within 3" of an enemy. Adding wholly within to his aura would've been enough. 

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

Just now, PJetski said:

Gavriel only effects Hammers of Sigmar units, unfortunately

Indeed, I got caught up in the offensive synergy-potential in fielding Dracolines.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

1 minute ago, PJetski said:

I was thinking something along these lines, but with Dracolines instead. 

Dracolines are 100ppm compared to the 120ppm for Fulminators, and they give Look Out Sir a lot easier than Dracoths.

Dracolines natively reroll charges and do D3 damage instead of 1 on the charge.

Lord Arcanum on Dracoline with Pride Leader mount trait to give all Dracolines +1 hit (for all weapons) and can use his command ability to give +1 attack to Dracoline monstrous claws.

You drop 3 unbinds directly into play, and after the deep strike charge turn you can start casting buffs. Add in a Heraldor to make sure you can retreat & charge later.

Seems fun, and possibly even viable in competitive play.

You could also go with the Celestial Vindicators CA (or both) +1 Attack to all weapons (instead of only Dracolines) and Reroll 1s to hit on the charge on top of all this. Costly, but scary!

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

3 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

Also if a redeemer unit dies you get it back on 5+.

the question is can you it more than once for the same unit.

does someone knows the exact wording of that ward save from hammers of sigmar?

Roll a dice each time you allocate a wound or a mortal wound to a friendly HAMMERS OF SIGMAR unit wholly within 9" of this general. On a 6+, that wound or mortal wound is negated.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

1 hour ago, Richelieu said:

9" charge with rerolls is nowhere near 80% success rate.  It's 48% 

A 6" charge is 72%

A 6" charge with rerolls is 92%

I was way off.  A 9" charge is at best 66% if you can reroll one or both of dice, thanks for keeping the math straight.
Edit: According to some guy on the internet.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

23 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

For me everything is major buff. To drop my forces where i want and then charge first turn is very powerfull. Remember Warrior Brotherhood won all big tournaments. You can alpha Strike and kill all the stuff that could get dangerous turn 1. i think you underestimate that. Dropping 4 Fulminators,shooting with them and then charge is very op. Also Sequitors are op af. A Unit of 20 costs only 400 points and only the grand weapons do an average damage of 14/15 dmg on a 4+ save target. We will see alot of stormcast inning armys in the next tournamnts.

My biggest fear about the new Stormcast is how I am going to be able to look my opponent in face after the game.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

25 minutes ago, Bradipo322 said:

So it's the old "GIT GOOD" argument? The ton of power in the new book is just in the new models.

But maybe I'm just incapable of winning, maybe I'm just wining because I don't get where Stormcast got stronger.

Please illuminate me, I whant to know what to bring, right now I have:

20 liberators

10 judicators

1 lord-celestant

1 vandus hammerhand / lord-celestant on dracoth

1 gavriel sureheart

1 (3) steelhearts

1 (3) farstriders

1 lord-relictor

5 retributors

I have to bring 750 points and I have no idea on what to bring, all my past lists are now somewhat unusable.

I was afraid I would come off a little Dark Soulish ?

750 is hard. I mostly play 2000 pts and all my arguments are based in a 1500pt+ perspective. That said:

Stormhost: Anvils of Heldenhammer

Lord-Celestant On Dracoth (220)
- General
- Tempestos Hammer & Thundershield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
10 x Judicators (320)
- Skybolt Bows
- 2x Shockbolt Bows

Total: 740 / 750 (Triumph)

Keep the LCoD near the Judicators, and the Judicators out of melee. Use the Heldenhammer CA on Judicators every turn. Use scions either to position Judicators and LCoD or to place libs on objectives. 

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

Just now, Bradipo322 said:

I expect that everyone will get this treatment, but when? When will "old" (and by old I mean "past edition warscrolls") get rewritten? The new edition arrived and a lot of thing are changed but no warscroll has been updated.

Saturday I'm going to my local GW store to start the new campaign, I will get steamrolled by everyone, I don't whant to win all the games but getting beaten to a pulp just because I will be using the new rules just feels wrong.

If you loose because you use the new rules then you have failed to adapt to the new rules. If you think something is really bad, then stop using it instead of lamenting over it. There is a ton of power in the new book and I expect to wreck a lot of face before the rest of the armies catch on. 

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

Just now, ledha said:

cause vexilior make reroll the whole roll, while the standard can make you reroll only one dice. When you make a 6 and 2 but need a 9, rerolling only the 2 is better.

So it make the vexxilior the ultimate charge buff as well as a run buff

Thanks for clearing that up!