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SwampHeart

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    AoS 2 Cities of Sigmar Discussion: Hallowheart

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted · Edited by SwampHeart

    13 minutes ago, stratigo said:

    The issue is that beastigor will get to fight twice with the keeper command ability 

    Incorrect - Bestigors are not Hedonites and cannot benefit from the command ability.  I've edited the above to include the Frostheart math (its worth about 4 PG surviving). As well as how I'd attempt to play against HoS. 

    Its also very difficult to get 30 Bestigors into anything, I play with them all the time and the most I've ever gotten into a single unit is 20. 

    AoS 2 Cities of Sigmar Discussion: Hallowheart

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted · Edited by SwampHeart

    13 minutes ago, stratigo said:

    Can Phoenix guard survive a charge from a keeper and max beasigor unit on turn one? With the frost heart Phoenix in support? With a luminark?

    Max Bestigors (30) do 69 wounds before saves (at least that's the strict average #). Operating off that number and sticking with simple averages 46 go through after armor saves (5+ due to rend 1). 23 go in after the DPR, 19 through after the Luminark save. So 10ish PG should survive that charge. 

    With the Frostheart debuff the numbers change to - 53 wounds, 35 after armor, 18 after DPR, 15 after Luminark. 

    Keeper is far more variable - depends on CP usage, relics, traits, etc. But there's a good chance she can finish the PG. The key I think to playing the Drove style HoS list is to deploy back to deny the first turn charge, the HoS player likely forces you to take first turn but that's fine at that point because you get to set up your buffs. 

    AoS 2 Cities of Sigmar Discussion: Hallowheart

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted · Edited by SwampHeart

    19 minutes ago, Undeadly said:

    Thats precisely why you bring those super fast Darkshards and Sorceress, along with a some sturdy chaff. A Terrorgheist and Keeper of Secrets are both scary hombres, but if you can smack them with enough spell power or fire power, then suddenly they aren't quite so terrifying. Although CP expensive, a fully buffed unit of darkshards can easily get in range and outright kill a KoS or at least wound it. And thats only if it didn't get any wounds what so ever from your hero phase. And even if they do decide to charge, you still have your MW on a 4+ suicide bomb to finish them off.

    Yeah I'm just thinking about it from the perspective of my HoS list. I feel like I'd have way more trouble with PG than Blackguard. In a 'mirror' (between my ideal BG list and HoS) I win the drop contest with HoS and deploy to take the aggressive first turn where I'm entirely capable of making a turn one charge with multiple units - KoS moves 26" before charge with a 1 CP expenditure, 28 with cogs, Bestigors move 16/18", same thing and all charges are at +1/3 with cogs. You'd have to screen aggressively but I feel like the only screening option are the shooters and if I can get through those its still a win. 

    I'm not saying this guaranteed or that you'll face that type of set up regularly, its just something I think about because of my HoS army. 

    EDIT - Blackguard are the same cost as Phoenix Guard at max size. 

    AoS 2 Cities of Sigmar Discussion: Hallowheart

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, Undeadly said:

    Why no love for Blackguard and Sorceress on Black Dragon? Black Guard seem crazy fast and crazy deadly, when combined with a Sorceress' command ability and her mere presence. And speaking of the Sorceress, she can easily blend away whole swathes of hordes with a deadly combo of her breath attack and elemental cyclone, and then finish them off with a fairly tough combat phase.  Sure, Black Guard don't get that test 4+, but you get them for 40 points less, while being twice as deadly and twice as fast thanks to their ability to charge and run with the Sorceress.

    Nothing wrong with that set up, its inherently more fragile but not bad at all. I play against a lot of high octane offensive builds so I prefer the 4+ DPR over the increased offense of the Black Guard but I don't think a Sorceress and BG combo is non viable. 

    AoS 2 Cities of Sigmar Discussion: Hallowheart

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted

    1 minute ago, mmimzie said:

    I'm saying the knight+comet is fragile as is a lot in a small package that a lot of armies can deal with. 

    I'm disagreeing with you on this premise. What I'm telling you is protecting the model is something you can do naturally with 0 other investment in the build. You're going to take a Hurricanum/Luminark and likely a Lifeswarm. That said we clearly don't agree on the conceit, and legitimately Comet isn't a requirement, you could easily spend on the 100 points on other endless spells or another unit. The Incantor is still worth taking without the comet.  

    AoS 2 Cities of Sigmar Discussion: Hallowheart

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted · Edited by SwampHeart

    1 minute ago, mmimzie said:

    This army is easily that shooting army, or that is to say the whole cities book. More so tzneetch and skaven can put out this level of damage on the first turn. 

    You can physically prevent him from being seen, the only thing that can shoot him is Stormfiends. That's what I mean by there is no army that reasonably has the firepower to remove the Incantor before casting. Additionally you're out dropping most Skaven builds (and are in competition with Hallowheart in the mid range drop game in general). You can really easily physically hide the model behind a Luminark (I know because I did). Additionally the Incantor benefits from LoS and if in terrain a 2+ save. 

    AoS 2 Cities of Sigmar Discussion: Hallowheart

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted

    1 minute ago, mmimzie said:

    That said a pheonix with annoited made wizard via the artifact makes a decent target as he has that +4 wound ignore. 

    You can use him early on but eventually if you're getting the most out of him he's not going to be in range to provide the bonus to cast buff. If I wasn't running a PG unit I'd probably use a foot character w/scales for the D6 MWs but PG are conditional Battle Line so I have to spend on an anointed (and I can't reasonably see spending 100 points for one on foot). That whole process is what informed my list building honestly. 

    AoS 2 Cities of Sigmar Discussion: Hallowheart

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, mmimzie said:

    As you have to think of the incantor as starting to cost 240 pts if you bring the incantor, as he's the only wizard who can that comet. If your incantor get shot off the table  your comet also dies.

    There's not a shooting army I can think of that gets him off the table before you cast the Comet and even one cast is often worth the 100 points. Especially against bunkered characters. 

    AoS 2 Cities of Sigmar Discussion: Hallowheart

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted

    Just now, zilberfrid said:

    Well, I do think the gryph hounds look good, as wel as the gryph-chargers. The Cursebreakers leader is not too bad to use as a Knight Incantor with the shoulderpads torn off, but I really don't like how non-functional they look. If you were to cosplay this, you'd run into all kinds of issues in day to day life, let alone combat.

    I mean they're magical supermen - they shoot bolts of lightning from their bows and have the fantasy equivalent of RPG crossbows. I'm not real hung up on if they 'work' or not. I routinely fight an army with a floating magical frog and another with elves that ride eels in a quasi magic sea. So yeah they have huge shoulder pads but they paint up nice because they have lots of clean surfaces.  

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 Cities of Sigmar Discussion: Hallowheart

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted

    36 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

    I do have a Knight Incantor, even one that's not skewered, but I'd prefer not to run SCE entirely.

    Eh, they're a part of the book and lore wise I can totally see a Knight Incantor as a part of a Hallowheart retinue/attache. But I also don't share the seemingly common loathing of SCE in general - I'm happy to be able to bring in a few SCE models that I think look good into the project. 

    AoS 2 Cities of Sigmar Discussion: Hallowheart

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted

    Played a game yesterday evening using the new book (my FLGS got their copies last night). I ran:
     

    Spoiler

    -Anointed on Frostheart Phoenix - General (Veteran of the Blazing Crusade), Whitefire Tome (Sear Wounds)
    -Luminark of Hysh - Ignax's Scales, Roaming Wildfire, Warding Brand
    -Sorceress - Ignite Weapons, Roaming Wildfire
    -Battle Wizard - Warding Brand, Crystal Aegis, Pha's Protection
    -Battle Wizard - Ignite Weapons, Sear Wounds, Chain Lightning
    -Knight Incantor - Elemental Cyclone, Sear Wounds
    -30x Phoenix Guard
    -10x Handgunners - Longrifle
    -10x Darkshards
    -3x Gyrocopters
    Whitefire Council
    -Everblaze Comet
    -Emerald Lifeswarm
     

    I played Starstrike against a Staunchcast style list (6 Tempestors, Castellant, Arcanum w/Staunch Defender on Gryph, etc.). We don't play using realm rules at my shop. Without going into a full Battle Report - I was really pleased with the list. His army is one I usually have trouble with - the Dracoths are unbelievably stout and I don't usually have enough rend to get through them. However in this game I was able to absorb the Dracoths with the Phoenix Guard unit - max debuffs up and he wasn't able to outpace my replenishment from Lifeswarm and Sear Wounds. I on the other hand was able to deal a lot of early damage to his supporting character cast via the comet, luminark laser, and other spells (which I absolutely overwhelmed him with). 

    I was able to take the win by using my Gyros and Phoenix to bully his smaller units and score objectives while I kept the middle line objective (fell at position 8 ) by virtue of superior body count. I'm really excited to continue testing this list and playing some of the other builds that frequent my store. 

    • Like 4
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    AOS2: Anvilgard Discussion

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted

    5 minutes ago, Kaleun said:

    I dont see the point, but maybe the mods do.

    Generally speaking we've always had new threads for books once they came out (ala Beasts, Skaventide, Slaanesh, etc.). I just don't think there's a ton of 'good' information in the old thread at this point given how drastically different CoS is vs. Firestorm. 

    AOS2: Anvilgard Discussion

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted

    I've been considering something oriented around the following set up for Anvilguard:

    Sorcereress with with save '-' spell
    Spell Portals
    Large Darkshard Unit

    Pretty straight forward idea of forcing through the save '-' spell, running Darkshards forward and getting past their rend '-'. Not sure how effective it would be but seems fun in concept. 

    AOS2: Anvilgard Discussion

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted

    16 minutes ago, Kaleun said:

    on  the second page of threads you can find the already startet Anvilguard thread.

    Probably better for a new Cities of Sigmar focused thread no? Given that Anvilguard under Firestorm is effectively an entirely different army at this point. 

    • Like 3

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    13 hours ago, Sobakaa said:

    What i don't get (probably because i'm new) is why people take those 130 points in spells over more sturdy heroes. I've seen it multiple times now.

    The 2 Slaanesh Endless spells are really important to helping us deal with support characters (Hags, Castellants, FS Characters, etc.). One of the major things Slaanesh doesn't have is the ability to reach out and threaten well screened characters and both Endless Spells do an excellent job of rectifying that. They have reasonable threat ranges (initially 24" for the mirror and 18" for the wheels) and the mirror has the added bonus of having no impact on your own models. They're just all round effective additions to the list that help deal with a problem area for HoS. This is of course all just in my personal experience with the spells. 

    • Like 3

    I feel there is a vicious cycle in rules writing currently.

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted

    1 hour ago, TheCovenLord said:

    (how god awful vanilla is skaven/gitmobs when you remove the randomness, the cowardly foot soldiers, the backstabbing or the bloodlust of the daughters of khaine forcing them into fights with minimal armor *cough except hag narr cough*? They all become slightly funny looking space marines with no character of their own)

    Every single one of these rules was terrible. Animosity was the single worst rule GW ever wrote and continue to belabor an army with ever. Gimmicky rules that prevent a player from being able to control their armies are bad for the game and have no place in design. 

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