Turragor
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Posts posted by Turragor
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7 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:
Stormcast are obviously selling well. It the way of things if it sells they make more of it. An operated Battletome is good news I'm hopeful it'll set a bit of a precedent.
Any thoughts on what else we'll be seen from this surprise release? It seems GW are still able to keep a few things up their sleeve.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI have to assume GWs 'literal' naming tradition carries over with the gryph-chargers and aetherwings.
I'd probably bet on the chargers being the mounted light cavalry. I would almost guess the aetherwings as a kind of "gryph-fon" knight but the 'charger' compells me to say they are mounted.
So Aetherwings (for me) sound like maybe we'll get flying Gryph hounds, that is solo beast models.
Now Gryph hounds don't roam alone, you've castellants and veritants to kinda manage them...
So maybe we'll see a solo stormcast model, even more pelted up, as a kind of beastmaster for these flying and running creatures? Yes? No?
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5 hours ago, swarmofseals said:
I'm not particularly concerned about rules bloat (in fact, I think there are a few more rules that should be added to the base rules or at very least matched play rules), and I love the new gryphs.
That said, I think that this is a really bad decision by GW. As most of you surely know, GW has a long history of providing heavier support for factions that are more popular (sometimes to an egregious extent). While this no doubt makes good business sense in the short term, in the long run I think there is a real risk that it will be very bad for the game. I think there are two main reasons for this:
- Seeing other factions get multiple releases before your faction gets updates really pisses players off. I know I shouldn't speak for others here, but this is why I quit WHFB just before 8th edition. I was a Wood Elf player, and I knew I wasn't going to get a lot of support. I fully expected my army book to be among the last to get redone. When 8th edition was announced though, it became clear that I wasn't going to get an update for 7th at all, and in fact many armies that had already been updated in 7th were getting 8th edition books soon after release. I felt this was such a slap in the face and it really turned me off the game. Dwarf, Aelf, and to a lesser extent Death players are no doubt looking at this announcement and slumping in their chairs a bit.
- These sorts of releases strongly encourage power creep. If a faction is well fleshed out in the current system, then current players probably already have fully functional armies built. In order to sell the new models, they have to either look amazing or function better than existing options (preferably both). This impetus is less prevalent for unupdated factions because those factions are already likely to be underperforming (and thus they don't need to be pushed beyond the current level of "competitive") and they are dealing with older sculpts. Players are much more likely to replace old sculpts for purely aesthetic rather than power reasons.
As many people other than me have noted, this strategy very quickly becomes a vicious cycle. If only popular factions get updated regularly, then of course those factions are going to get an increasingly large share of the playerbase. People cite the predominance of space marines in 40k all the time, and frankly it's a terrible look for that game. How much of a turnoff is it for new players to come in to a game and see one faction at nearly every table, getting so much attention? This appearance sends so many bad messages.
I can maybe see why you'd have concerns but I don't think they're (yet) rational.
I see it as this: They turned a corner with their approach to battletomes rendering some older ones a bit useless (I've got Stormcast and Extremis tomes myself).
They've been working on updates to those tomes that are already released but now out of date (because the models / launch for these ranges are already done and out there) and will be shooting them out in between their already set release schedule for new-new stuff (which they've maybe been editing the battletomes for).
The models coming with this have been ready, probably, since around launch.
I know Stormcast feel like they get attention (they do for a few very logical reasons that ppl have shared, poster boys, launch range, space marine success comparison) but I have to point out that as an army from scratch, they would need a lot to become 'complete'.
If they were to be a subfaction (like say, Fireslayers or Sylvaneth) they may not need to be complete, but I think GW's aim with them is to get them on a par with the old school armies: Light and heavy troops, light and heavy ranged, light and heavy cavalry, a form of large monster, a kind of artillery.
I am deducing that from the oft reiterated 'chamber' structure - sacrosanct, auxillary, ruination, extremis.
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And I think, if we are looking at two big battletomes announced so close together, 2017 won't be a dry year for anyone.
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<Dancing in the rain of tears due to more SC releases>
My golden nipple meter had depleted [||-----] and I was painting beastclaws and thinking about Tzeentch and everything, what a fool I've been!
Golden Nipple Meter charging... [||||||||] PING
(PS I do feel for anyone still waiting for their favourite faction but must point out that the God King gave everyone nipples for a reason, to cover in luscious gold)
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100% sure its 40k. If its AoS I will paint some prosecutor wings (and suffer).
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24 minutes ago, Zen said:
160
which to me seems quite cheap
I feel like on foot they're actually dear. Higher cost per model than retributors for instance.
No reason not to take discs though which would make them pretty cheap cavalry (though what are they rough equivalent to?). They are strong and most of all fast troops, not tough.
Can't see skyfire points cost yet but those guys are definitely tastier.
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22 minutes ago, Requizen said:
As above, the Gyrinx is historically an Eldar/Harlequin/Exodite familiar, so likely not for AoS, sadly.
Oh okay, but then they're still getting a bike, rider and cat or something like that? Interesting.
Also with the references in the weather report - what's what?
Stormcast - lightning
Tornados - Tzeentch
Rain of Blood - Khorne
Everwinter - Beastclaw Raiders
Brimstone - ?
All potential protagonists or antagonists at this point?
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1 hour ago, PJetski said:
That lightning bolt is a Stormcast symbol but I don't recognize that tornado symbol
9 of 'em makes me think it's Tzeentch related.
Also with the Gyrinx are we getting a mount, a rider and a cat on one base? Seems packed!
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58 minutes ago, Rogue Explorator said:
Speaking for myself personally, I am not beat up about the reserve point rules at all. In fact, I would call myself over all, a fan of the ruling. I think that, apart from many summons being far to likely to fail, the advantages of summoning are well worth any hassle possibly caused.
I think, however, that the reserve point rules in the specific case of horrors splitting, are more trouble than is worth.
First of, blue and brimstone horrors do not come in neat unit sized packages, but dribble in with the attrition of the parent unit. So to start of, we need blue horrors to be prized as pair and brimstones to be prized by base, otherwhise players are overpaying for every split. If they are appropiately prized as stated, then accounting through a game becomes far more in game book keeping than is common to a wargame, particularly such an over all fast and fluid system as AoS. This becomes worse if pink horrors retain the generic demon icon rule of "popping back" lost models, as in that case, depending on the wording, I could end up splitting more models than the original pink horror units size.
Second, the points a Tzeentch player would have to reserve for splitting horror differ from points reserved for summoning units in the important point of entirely depending on the opponents actions to come into play. Simply put, so long as my opponent doesn't attack my horrors, I am not getting my points into play, very much unlike summoning, where as the summoning player I get to influence when I want to use my points. In addition, I only get my points worth of miniatures, when I lose a roughly equivalent miniature.
These factors combine to make a unit of horrors splitting far more alike to a unit of Death battleline, like Sceletons or Crypt Ghouls, regaining numbers through heroes abilities or their standarts, than to any summons, that reserve points where designed for. Those units do not pay for their regained numbers, yet share the lasting quality you so correctly called out as the strong point of splitting horrors.
P.s.
Consider this wonkiness of point costed blue and brimstone horrors:
If blue and brimstone horror are costed, I could just add a unit of pink horrors to my army list. In that case, I'd have to pay for any splits.
However, if I select a unit of pink, blue and brimstone horrors each and have all three in melee, but still nearby, all three units are bound to suffer casualties, as the opponent is bound to have models in combat that can only attack one of the units. Now, as by the current rules, split of blues and brimstones are added to nearby units, I get my split of horrors for free or have to pay for them, depending entirely on the timing of my opponents attacks! If my opponent attacks the pink horrors first, all splits would bring the nearby blues above original numbers, making me pay. But if, for any reason, the blues are attacked first, they take casualties that are then replenished by slain pink horrors, making the split of blues free.
Horrors are meant to represent the madness of Tzeentch, but I hope they aren't meant to inflict it uppon the players.
I see what you mean better now!
I'd add more thoughts about possible solutions or interesting ways of making it work out fairly but I don't wanna derail the rumour thread more
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31 minutes ago, Rogue Explorator said:
I am so curious how this will turn out. Depending on the wording and costing of the splitting rule, if the cost of blues and brimstones is included in the cost of pink horrors, one could need 20 blue horrors and 20 brimstone horror bases to field 10 pink horrors, which is a lot of models (as well as money and painting) for a single small battleline unit.
On the other hand, if brimstone and blue horror units are costed, the splitting becomes hardly worth the trouble in matched play.
One thing I could imagine would be wounds taken by pink horrors being automatically transferable to nearby blue horror units (and wounds taken by blues to brimstones). I that case, players would only need a small amount of blues and brimstones for every pink unit, as very few of these would be on the table at any point.
Another possible system would be for splitting to only replenishing nearby units of blues and brimstones, which you buy and field like any old unit. Though that would make for some strange tactical interactions (if you kill of the different horror units one after another, you could prevent any splitting).
I don't play a summoning army (yet) but are people really still so beat up about having to pony up points for generating new models and units? Like I see this all the time '<source of free models> is useless because I have to pay for it now>' and I don't get it. There are always upsides to this kind of thing, if there was no benefit at all it wouldn't see any use or wouldn't have a cost.
Just off the top of my head, a unit that splits from Pink > Blue > Brimstone (costed) is like having 3 units on an objective with the footprint of one. Pretty durable. Opponents need to hit them with just the right amount of damage too as anything over the wounds of the pink horrors say doesn't spill onto the new blue unit. Rather the blue models are setup once the damage is resolved (I think, never played these).
The main thing I can see that is valid is the hobby side you mentioned here, you need to buy and paint a lot of models to make this one unit. Ofc they could just sell 5 pink, 10 blue, 10 brimstone as one box?
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I am so TPFT
Too poor for Tzaanuary
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22 minutes ago, Rogue Explorator said:
The painting style of that harpoon says Duradin to me. I'm calling Duradin Ahab, you heard it here first folks.
It is from official material, the original Age of Sigmar booklet, to be precise. Mind, that is also one that still called Fyreslayers the Red Slayers, so it might be more of a working title.
Yeah if you take steam out of the equation it really changes what you'd expect these new duardin to look like. Steampunk is pressing heavily on my imagination when I consider them.
Maybe they skip steam but are similar (hydraulic kinds of things powered by magic crystals, w/e)
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5 minutes ago, daedalus81 said:
Don't have mine handy. The new rumor mill looks like a high elf halberd. Or maybe some techno dwarf weapon.
My money is on duardin steamhead harpoon spear!
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50 minutes ago, daedalus81 said:
Bet on it. While there are legitimate concerns about scale creep - I can say that after getting my hands on the Thousand Sons kits, it is a good thing. The stuff that they can do with the upsized models is incredible.
I cannot think of any downside to scale creep. Space Marines were always comically small for superhuman giants (for instance).
Oh maybe one downside - transport!
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Back to this one: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/11/16/the-rumour-engine/
I thought that with the new death roller reveal it was obvious that that's what it is but after another look it seems that they aren't from the same model.
The styles don't really match and the paintjobs seem to be TMM (in rumour pic) v NMM (FW deathroller). Ofc maybe they've painted a few.
So I guess this is still unconfirmed and likely steamhead?
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1 hour ago, Warboss Gorbolg said:
Excited about the Duardin in the picture above. Also interesting that the Duardin is wielding a sword.
The red bearded guy fighting the Tzeentch sorcerer? They said on stream that that is a mage (fire battle mage) iirc
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I think I need more Tzeentch in my life
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Tzeentch book covers ALL of Tzeentch. Confirmizzled on Warhammer TV just now. Many evolutions they say.
All keyword Tzeentch covered in the book.
EDIT
Confirmed that the book doesnt just cover the keyword but if it has the keyword it can be in the army and the rules from the book can apply to that army.
I assume that means its a real evolution alright!
Almost an abandonment of small faction forces.
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First test Mournfang done.
Skin is 100% in.
Black chipped plate, dull iron and bronze are 100% in.
Brown leathers with dark greeny blue leathers are 100% in. Might vary the Ogor trousers colour.
Beast skin and fur is 90% in. Might have some fur variation.
The colour of the icy base is 100% in. The TUFTS I am not sure on at all. I hve some wintery ones to try (not as many lengths with those though).
HORNS I'm not certain on. Beast (black) I 50% like. The dark brown, orange bones I like too but they're harder to paint and Ive no firm style on those yet. Will still mix in a more traditional dirty ivory (like on his helm).
All in all, enjoyed this!
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I like the base and paintjob on that AoS Tzaangor teaser image
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47 minutes ago, KHHaunts said:
Just think that the whole design and positioning isent very dwafish. Its to dainty and delecate.
Sounds stupid but i cant imagine an elf holding a set of keys like that let alone a duaradin.
If its for AOS my money would be on Tzeentch. If its for 40k . . . . could still be tzeentch but part of a further crossover option.
I dont think that key is a cog i think its just exotic looking key . . . . .
tzeentch would work with a more organic look to the limb, unless I mean, if steamhead and tzeentch are released a bit intertwined maybe Tzeentch corrupted a steammachine.
I also agree that most duardin stuff looks like a dwarf with a bulky aesthetic so this would be different.
My only theory is that its a swiss army knife style army. Many different machines with different functions with a few dwarves as masters.
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13 hours ago, ElectricPaladin said:
Nah. Looks too much like AoSy arcanotech. I'm guessing its a prosthetic or a fantasy sort of servo-arm for Steamhead Duardin. Keys are a bit of a theme for the Fyreslayers, so...
You and I think alike!
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One of the other kind of steam automotons the steamhead duardin technomancers will command
The Rumour Thread
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
I always thought that (bar vanguard wing) SC deployment as lightning was the 'hurled from Sigmar' start to the campaign. So, for me, I'd love these 'survivors' - those that haven't been reforged anew and hurled back - to be savvy, open to adjusting tactics and fast. I think that's maybe what we'll see.
If it's a regular scout like deployment it might feel too similar to lightning strikes. Maybe just a 'snap march' in the first hero phase or movement phase. Even better, better speed during the whole game. SC are pretty slow post deployment!