Turragor
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Posts posted by Turragor
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54 minutes ago, aceytrixx said:
I've just found that rain of stars is so erratic is not worth relying on. It's that 4+ after rolling to see how many units then it's d3. Obviously having double the chances to use it helps. I'm currently running a magna rack 720 so it's usually plenty but with the double Stardrake that eats up alot of room. I might try proxying it to see how it goes.
It can be a real downer if it doesnt work but I've found it is always a threat and by and large makes an impact - and thats just one of their abilities. I've built a list around 2 now and I'm satisfied. Tweaking it before the early 2020 tournaments now.
Right now I'm having fun with the starcast list. Its my own best way of playing Stormcast. Won't fit everyone or possibly anyone else but myself
Note - I'm the sort of person that would play 4 Drakesworn Templars at a big tournament - just to see if it at all pans out lol
FYI this is the list I'll be trying at first tourney 2020 (artefacts, command traits, spells etc subject to change):
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Trait: Staunch Defender
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Lord-Castellant (120)
Lord-Exorcist (120)
- Spell: Lightning Blast
Knight-Heraldor (100)
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
Everblaze Comet (100)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 86 -
8 hours ago, aceytrixx said:
Yeah although I'd probably have to think about going non host to get staunch and ethereal amulet or ignax etc if I'm double drakeing I'll need to play about with my case and see what I can sort out for transporting
I really like multi-drake lists when you make the erratic rain of stars combo with other chip ranged mw... but I've also tried 6 desolators and 2 drakes and I lack experience there. It feels like there's a great deal of potential - danger to the opponent - to be uncovered.
Case wise, because of the stupid kinds of armies/lists I take, and the way GW sculpts keep evolving, I invested in that "kane" Army Case:
That's two awkward armies (surplus of 2000 SC too for a bit of choice) crammed in there. That middle shelf originally held 2 drakes, 6 desolators and an LCoD before I swapped out the desolators for the prime and a bunch of other stuff. I reckon 12 dracoths and 4 drakes is probably doable. I should build my extra stardrake to test
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It works in our favour too. For example I faced hallowheart with 30 sisters of the watch and the drake had 3 wounds left facing 25 or so sisters, they shot in and did 6 mortals which my opponent felt did the job, but I informed him he needed to resolve all to see what wounds I healed back
Healed back 10 or so and reflected (was in combat with other units) 6 mws killing his hurricanum and some other models.
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Yep 2nd option. Otherwise the dragon would be 100% immortal
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7 minutes ago, Maturin said:
He wouldn't have any problem with anvilstrike, since it's clearly worded. I already played anvilstrike in the shop with no problem. It's just that some people think the stormwing trait and MW in all phases is our way of bending rules to our benefit.
Yeah then it's TO ruling (in a tourney) and an "ok we play it your way" in a friendly game as you did (y)
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14 minutes ago, Maturin said:
Yup, I did. I was playing against my town's GW store manager and he told me something along the line of : I don't play that way, I don't like rule lawyering blabla, but have it your way." He just got a ton of MW from the drake's shooting + Celestant prime's scepter, then I added D3MW on his centerpiece at the charge phase. I explained to him the way it's worded, worked, played in tournaments. He replied that is good friend who plays tournament would never acknowledge that blabla.
So I just dropped the issue, didn't even bother to do it afterwards. The drake was unkillable by his blightkings anyway and I had just won the initiative for a double turn so. He was already considering conceding turn2. Since it wasn't a tournament, I thought that it was best for both of us to play the game until the end in a friendly manner.
I can't wait to use that trick in a tournament though
Haha Yes I wouldn't take starcast to a friendly game unless I knew the opponent had a history of tough friendly game lists or we'd agreed to run tournament lists.
It's similar to anvilstrike in that way.
On a related note, GW store staff are often the most out of touch tournament scene wise. Our local store has almost 0 involvement in a very healthy competition scene for AoS.
I hear its relatively common. They dont want to be involved or relied on by the power gamers. They are the crack dealers on the front line. Their job is to sell models to kids and their mums /grans. Getting the new blood in (but not getting them interested in tournaments).
So I'm not surprised your gw worker didn't want to play raw and had his own friendly interpretation of the rule.
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8 hours ago, Scurvydog said:
Hmm so yea after reading up on the wording of the movement rules for all phases and the fly keyword, it does indeed seem there is nothing stopping a player from doing the things mentioned. A unit without fly can never be within 3" of an enemy unit during any part of the move (not just ending 3" away) but FLY ignores enemy models entirely outside of ending 3" away.
Charges moves only states you need to end within 0,5" and the pile in just says you need to end up at least as close to the nearest model as you began. So as I understand it, say you start within 8" of an enemy, you move 8.1 clipping the front of the base of a model of the enemy unit and then go straight back, putting the drake down 3" away. So you effectively only moved 5" forward, but had enough move for a "bombing run".
Then when charging, you roll a 5, but then you just move 3,5" forward and then 1" back and sit at 0,5". At pile in you again just move 1" forward and 1" back at the same spot, doing damage (on a 2+) for the third time.
Is this all correctly understood? In that case I might reconsider the worth of that trait, but at the same time, I think there will be some groaning about the "gamey" nature of doing these janky moves. Anyone experienced problems with this?
That's it basically yep. Ive not had complaints when doing so at tournaments, I've had more problems explaining the unkillable drakes healing via warding lantern actually.
Most players at tournaments have elements of their lists that are gamey tbh.
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1 hour ago, Requizen said:
It sounds like it'll have pretty poor games against good horde armies, who don't care about taking a handful of MWs and will just outscore.
The only horde armies I worry about are those with battleshock immunity beyond inspiring presence (OBR). The drakes take care of hordes. Summoning is more worrying but you have to flip your mindset a little there. The drakes have big bases and can block shenanigans.
In my local meta (sweden) the things that stop me going 5 wins and winning a tourney would be:
Slaanesh (think this remains the same after their "nerfs"), OBR and FEC with multiple gheists and summoning (their support heroes regen).
Oh, that and I'm not a fantastic player hehe though I get better with this list every time.
There are a handful of really good SCE players here and at the last big tourney (think the main national event) we all went 3 for 2 when I took this list and they had a variation of Anvilstrike (and one v interesting desolator list). It's totally anecdotal to say this, but I had the harder matchups
- or at least it felt that way!
Depending on your definition of mid tables, I've already broken out a few times or I'll do so soon. The list isn't really the problem... or I mean, it IS because if I'd thrown this time into another list - say Slaanesh - I'd probably be doing much better. I don't believe I could say the same for another SCE list. I'd be performing equally or worse.
I like stardrakes /shrug
1 hour ago, Requizen said:There's nothing saying it has to be in a line. If you're any closer than 9" (without Heraldor) you can move 8.99" over then, back 3.1", land, charge more than 3" back and over, and technically there's nothing preventing you from going back and forth over a model with your pile in as far as I know, as long as it finishes closer than it started. Potentially 3d3MW from just moves.
This is correct! Until its FAQd like hydroxskin but I mean, if SC gets another nerf how will the boards cope ?
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46 minutes ago, Maturin said:
What's a 2 for 1 deal ? (Non native speaker here).
It's another way of saying "buy one get one free" - which is actually another of the marketing terms for it rather than the bare English meaning... But it's pretty descriptive.
Depending on your native language you'll have a local equivalent.
Yknow your local store has an offer on: buy one banana but get 2
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3 minutes ago, Dirtnaps said:
What if this time instead of the new starter set just being Stormcast they instead did a Cities of Sigmar (with stormcast and a couple new sculpts for existing CoS units) vs Orruk Warclans to go along with the narrative revolving around the aftermath of Gordrakk trying to bust his way into Azyr by attacking Excelsis. Now that's a box I'd like to see, they could even add in some rules for Excelsis that could maybe be put in the next generals handbook.
Y'know, that got me thinking...
What if they do a boxset that's just two different Stormhosts against each other each led by a stardrake?
They could call it "Serpents Entwined" and have it loaded with innuendo.
I'm 100% ready even if I've already got multiples of nearly every Stormhost unit and I'd have 5 Stardrakes after buying it.
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3 hours ago, GrungnisBeard said:
Hey all, was thinking about starting Stormcast and ran across the following army for sale. Is this a good base to start off with? The army comes out to a little over/under 1k.
2 X 5 Vanguard Hunters
1 X 3 Vanguard Palladors
1 X 3 Vanguard Raptors
1 X 3 Aetherwings
1 X Lord Aquilor
1 X Knight Venator
1 X Naeve Blacktalon ( or ran as Knight Zephyros)
See if you can get a 2 for 1 deal, doubling up on all those units is an interesting enough list
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...I'm too old to be messing with these stupid memes...
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27 minutes ago, Icegoat said:
My local store owner has said the aether war box is the slowest selling box he has seen from games workshop for age of sigmar. Including blightwar and wrath and rapture. Seems tzeentch and KO just aren't a popular pairing. Also I hope people are wising up to the disgracefulness of hiding exclusive models inside hundred pound box sets. Blood of phoenix and aether war have both fallen flat now so hopefully we see a change away from this disgraceful practise and they start releasing models vital to peoples armies.
You should pursue a career in politics
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1 hour ago, FFJump said:
Well, for me personally, I was a Lizardman player from 6th-8th of Warhammer Fantasy (and if they come in Warhammer: The Old World I'll play them then too), and so any references to their old lore I love. Also, personally, I prefer them being actual creatures to beings or memories of starlight from the old battletome.
If you've kept up with the new lore, especially in the Tome of Champions as Whitefang mentioned, they've kind of retconned some stuff. They have spawning pools again from where they come from. They're creatures of flesh and blood again, however, the Slann can still summon them through starlight. Some of them stay or live in the realms. Also, apparently, Seraphon that have been isolated too long become feral and regress to a savage state.
Also, lots of references to the Old Ones. The Seraphon quest in the Tome of Champions has you looking for a Cosmic Pylon that seems to somehow have been technology of the Old Ones. Overall, I'm pretty excited for their new tome.Thanks for the info! I think left as I remembered from the original book it was a bit weird. But I got to thinking about the interesting places you could go with the remembered ppl being given form angle.
It could have been wild!
At the same time I did like the old aztec angle for the lizards and well, if dedicated seraphon players are happy good stuff.
Were i to buy up some Seraphon I can always make mine old school new school
One lizard remembered as many times as the models I field (in different stages of life), Jeff - best pal to general Hank the Slann
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9 hours ago, FFJump said:
That's ancient lore. They do have spawning pools again and are more ground-based. Their lore has already been re-worked outside their own battletome. When their battletome comes out (not long now), they'll be quite different lore-wise from the old tome.
Why do you guys have a stiffy for spawning pools? Hehe
Age of sigmar shouldnt be national geographic - you can read about lizard on wiki if you want to.
Physical permanent Seraphon are 1 trillion times more boring. Oh well. Preferences differ. What lures me into Seraphon turns off Seraphon old guard from the old world
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9 hours ago, Icegoat said:
hypnotaods acid trip lore.
If you mean this as a derogatory explanation for the new lore it fell short. It sounds awesome!
Makes me want to paint up Seraphon
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This is the list I'll take end of Jan:
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Trait: Staunch Defender
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
Lord-Castellant (120)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Lord-Exorcist (120)
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
Everblaze Comet (100)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 86
Small (toot toot) change with the extra points. Army style not changed. More MW output.
Artefact wise, I'd consider swapping to Ignax on the unkillable drake in prep for mw from Tzeentch - some hope.
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Got 1 day events booked in every month for spring 2020. Won't have anything new painted so it'll be Starcast for each series of 3 games.
Interested in following the emerging meta youtube series (based on AoS reminders stats) -
I think Tzeentch will knock our win rate down and, depending on their battalions, could be a problem for Starcast lists that don't get the first turn.
Kharadron are also an interesting prospect in that you rarely see them and most players therefore need more practise against them
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2 hours ago, Nizrah said:
Stormcast are alright? Are you kidding me? 80% of warscroll are useless. Today my fully buffed 10 evocators (reroll 1 to hit, reroll full wounds) killed only 5 of 10 heartguards... Combo for 780 couldnt kill unit for 240.
Also for 220 i can get 5 evocators thats deal okayish dmg and are made of paper. For 240 he can get 10 heartguard thats hit like train and and are durable as stone.
The only really competive way of playing (raptors) were nerfed. We are in dire need of overhaul...Spitballing here but you mean berzerkers? Had you removed the heroes nearby (granting ward saves)? You're not counting their combo points total. They're only hard as stone with a hero in the area.
I guess it could have been some bad luck to be fair. It sucks when that happens. It doesn't measure anything though.
Most people would agree Evocators are a strong unit. On the other hand, you could make a case that they could now come down to 200 again.
34 minutes ago, schwabbele said:46% win rate suggests otherwise
That's still above a good chunk of factions - but ofc below another chunk.
SC are top in meta representation we've the most results recorded, and are probably as a result, the most statistically accurate (unless you argue we absorb the most beginners to the hobby - starter army syndrome) and we are in the middle everywhere else.
And use my full quote so you see it paints a better picture of reality:
3 hours ago, Turragor said:Stormcast are ok right now. Not great, not really good. Not bad or the worst faction in the world either.
I might strike out "bad" because depending on how you define it, you could make that case.
Stats drawn on are two most recent HWG stat reports:
https://thehonestwargamer.com/13th-december-stats/
& https://thehonestwargamer.com/2nd-december-stats/
All in all, the main thing I'm saying is that hyperbole is not needed. SC are okay. Vanilla. Smack bang in the centre... No better, no worse (maybe a hair worse stats taken into account).
They could be improved; brought up to speed with the top tier armies; updated - whatever you want to call it. The stats aren't telling us we're top tier. Mid to low in fact. However, putting it out there that [checks SC posts and threads] "SC are the worst army in the game with no viable lists, you're better playing 1/4 of a Cities army" is just posting without thinking in the hope that GW read and buff the army to the sun.
But pay heed to armies that are buffed to the sun, fly to close and the wax on their wings will melt.
Unless they're Slaanesh - melted wax is just their kind of thing.
Anyway, that was a bit off topic.
SC will get a new battletome or new rules in 2020 - I am 75% sure of it. I'm 100% sure SC players will still be unhappy. That's the nature of the tabletop war game beast! It attracts nerds that want to win via tabletop combat and no amount of fluffy "we're OK" posting from me changes that. I don't even want to change it, I just dislike kneejerk reactions made by anyone not trying new things out in tournaments.
You can't just comb the net for a netlist and find nothing but aetherstrike, buy and paint a hundred local currency of models and then go 2 - 3 or 3 - 2 at your first tournament and put the faction on the shelf... or better yet you CAN do that and move onto Slaanesh, Ossiarch etc (I bought a lil Ossiarch somethinsomethin myself
) but you CAN'T do it whilst saying "SC are the worst omg I can't go on".
Or I mean, you still CAN but I won't take you seriously.
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Did anyone check this for unidentified rumour engine pics? The boot looks familiar:
Scratch that, the boot is ofc different:
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Stormcast are ok right now. Not great, not really good. Not the worst faction in the world either*. Hyperbole should be checked into the hyperbole closet by the forum door.
SC will get a new tome. All factions out now (that made it through the purge) will at some point get a new tome.
It may however soon be time for a chamber specific tome (in the style of Extremis Chamber) OR some kinda Space Marine inspired Stormhost specific minitomes.
*IE you don't necessarily need to buy a new army to enjoy competitive games. A good SC player with one of the decent lists that they have experience with should still do 3 or 4 wins at a big tournament
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17 minutes ago, Marcvs said:
Right, I see, thanks for the added explanation.
With a second/third drake you are sitting at around 1200/1300 points to do on average 6-8 MW per turn. If we are counting lucky scenarios, we can as well drop 4 ballistas from the sky with an ordinator and an azyros, and those will still dish on average 7-13 wounds T1 to 3+ save heros with lookout sir for a mere 680 points (which in comparison with the drakes, would leave points for 9 longstrikes on top). Of course if you need MW for specific reasons or to ignore LoS that's a different matter.
So yeah, I don't know. I admit I've never gone so all-in with the drakes (only ever fieldeded one LCoSD + castellant) so I am definitely not saying that the list cannot work.
On paper you are right, on the board the way the drakes (sometimes prime, though he usually dies) can be played in other ways in comparison to the ballista are the key.
You're eating 6 models per combat phase (12 per turn - until the drakes drop wounds) which really messes with units with either high saves + ward saves, or high hit debuffs.
They are durable (each in their own way - one being ethereal, the other being the traditional "unkillable drake") which messes with other armies.
They are mobile - 12" move is some of the best SC has to offer. A lot of other lists we have don't move at all after the initial deploy.
The prime has a toolkit that compliments this kind of list in that you choose a roll each turn - either the range or the mw output of the comet on your "shooting focused" turns, and usually a combat hit or save roll on the enemy's turn/a combat assassin focused turn.
For me the Starcast list wins more than it loses (luck, scenarios and matchups all factored in I have it at 12 wins 6 losses over several tournaments). It's better (for me) than any other SC list I've taken. That's before the 100pt reduction in the Drake and Templar (a surprising amount of potential opens up with that discount).
For me for now, this is the definitive Starcast list:
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Trait: Staunch Defender
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
Lord-Castellant (120)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Lord-Exorcist (120)
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
Everblaze Comet (100)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 86
The option is there to drop the heraldor and upgrade exorcist (rather terrible scroll) to incantor then take 10 skinks. But for long range, unavoidable MW output this list is unmatched - certainly for SC and perhaps in the meta as a whole. It's even somewhat of a counter to other long range, MW output lists. I've beaten tournament Hallowheart lists twice for example. I've also beat the 9 Stormfiend Skaven list (before the Dec 19 nerf).
In some games, if the dice are against you, you won't shift the support heroes you want to. In others you'll remove support heroes and key 10 wound + enemy pieces together with shocking (lol) battleshock damage to units.
Spoiler - current Tzeentch will eat this list for breakfast, new Tzeentch even more so quite likely - but you can't win em all!
Basically, I'm not saying this is the best list we have, and it is unforgiving and hard to get to grips with... but it's not something to be immediately discounted (in my experience) as a loopy, wildcard list.
Full dets are in the Honest Wargamer rundowns I've done (and more discussion or playtesting results are welcome in the Starcast thread).
Happy New Year all
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13 hours ago, XReN said:
I believe that the right way to do it is by executing each bite one by one, so you can pick the same model multiple times of needed
This is correct. The ability is just "pick a model, roll over wounds characteristic to eat".
The damage table says you can use that ability however many times.
- or at least it felt that way!
AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion
in Stormcast Eternals
Posted
Looking at the original, I love this too. If I'm thinking narrative I might swap the relictor for a heraldor - as I like the idea of trumpets in narrative lists. Stormcast need musicians too!