broche

yeah i'm toying with another wizard (not sure between Weirnob, Wurrog or litte night goblin) or maybe a warchanter. I could keep 100 pts for 2 extra CP.

Working on a Mixed Destruction (trying something different) list based on a min size gorefist. The idea is to put pressure on your opponent from turn 1. Most list now seem to have either crazy combo or summoning, so you can't afford to loose round one not being in combat, so the goal is to put at least the 3 units of gruntas and either the MK or Wyvern round 1 (depending on deployement / what you're facing). I'm evaluating 2 idea for realm: Hysh, for a 5+ against mortal on MK, and recover CP or Ghyran for the gauntlet on Wyvern (6'' pile in so it can reach the back row of a screen) and +1/+1 weapon on MK weapon (or other) with the Cog (93% odds of casting assuming out of dispel range), gruntas have 15+11+2d6+2 (35 average) reach, and wyvern/MK have 14 + 6 + 2d6 +2d6 + 2 assuming I hit at least one rampanging destroyer (84% odds with a fifth hero) and use fungoid (36 avg). I don't mind too much the battleline tax, as 10 orruks for 80 is pretty cheap, they make perfect objective older (especially in cover) so what would you use for the left over point (190)? Allegiance: Destruction Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440) Orruk Warboss On Wyvern (240) Orruk Warboss (140) - Great Waaagh Banner Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80) - General - Trait: Ravager 10 x Orruks (80) - Choppas & Shields 10 x Orruks (80) - Choppas & Shields 10 x Orruks (80) - Pair of Choppas 3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140) 3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140) 3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140) Gorefist (190) Chronomantic Cogs (60) Total: 1810 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 4 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 109

I think you need the Cog to replace Gordrack. But you could drop one of the Pig unit for a second MK

Toying with Gorefist list. I've got the idea of dropping Gordrack for a classic Maw Krusha and put him the ghyran item that give him 6'' pile in. I've add Cog to compensate the loss of Gordrack extra move. So round 1 even if your opponent screen, you can destroy the screen with Gruntas and MK have good chance of reaching juicy stuff Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: GhyranMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)- General- Trait: Prophet of the Waaagh! Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)Orruk Warchanter (80)Orruk Warchanter (80)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)Gorefist (190)Chronomantic Cogs (60)Total: 1670 / 2000Extra Command Points: 7Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 107

They were already good before AoS 2, but now they get 600-700 free pts cause of summoning wich totally break the game.

Dispelling a foot of gork is unlikely if it goes off (it's a 10) I played a weirdfist list prior to AoS 2 and it was good enough (i would say low T1, but with at least 20% odds to win any matchup cause of foot of gork). Problem was it cost 200 pts, and your Shaman was vulnerable to sniping. Now you loose the +1 to cast from vortex, but you now have a vortex that allow double cast (wich basicly double the efficiency of weirdfist, cause you can cast a bolt for 3-4 mortal and still try your foot of gork, or puke even have decent range and can do lot of damage). Also the rule change for vortex (now count as single model) mean you don't have to play pythagore. But more importantly, Shaman now get a -1 to hit agains shoot, and can get +2 to save from vortex (if you cast it on a terrain feature). And you get bunch of item for extra protection (extra -1 to hit, mortal save, ect). You also get indirect protection in the sense that shooting if now nerfed.

I'm not so sure. Let's take an example of a fairly standart ironfist list with mixed units: Allegiance: IronjawzMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)Orruk Megaboss (140)Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)Orruk Warchanter (80)10 x Orruk Brutes (360)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)Ironfist (180)Chronomantic Cogs (60)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 128 so decent number of bodies, good threath range (but worse than deepkin, DoK or Tzeench) , and hard hitting. Let take a slight variation: dropping the Ironfist for let say an extra warchanter and a Geminid (1940 pts total, so you keep 1 CP and bet 10 on the triumph) what happen: - I go up from 5 to 10 drops (so unlikely i get to choose first turn) - I loose 3.5'' threath range on my core units, which at first might seem really bad - I loose an artefact (sad, but i can live with that) on the other hand I get: -another warchanter (extra +1 to hit, extra body for waaagh ability and/or objective, extra 1/6 odds for a free move) -the Geminid So let say i deployed (more drop so i can deploy better, inherent advantage of high drop), i finish last and my opponent let me go first. if i hit 2 freemove, i could put pressure by sending 3 gruntas and MK or i could just take objective, send a Geminid in his face and take objective. By round 2 we are likely to be in combat anyway. If he steal the turn then i can hit him again with Geminid to damage / debuff a unit. That said, i think i would prefer to play a weirdfist by going -1 Megaboss, -1 Cog, -1 ironfist, + 1 Weirnob, + 1 balewind + 1 Geminid But would you would loose some hitting power and threath range. But to me it's not clear that option 2 is strictly worse than 1.

@DerZauberer At the moment RAW it's pretty clear that the first to deploy get to choose (i think it's in the FAQ) My thinking is more, ironfist cost 180 and give 3.5 average move to 3-5 units. Cog cost 60 and give +4 to all your army (but to your opponent also but also offer you the option to cast 2 spell). A command point cost 50 if you really want one. Extra artefact, well it's sad but that life. I feel that with IJ you either want to be really aggressive (and nothing beat Gorefist if that's your plan as you can reach almost anywhere turn 1) or defensive (play lots of body and try to control the board). In the end, Ironfist just fall in the middle and at the same time not able to answer either of it.

I think a list withouth bataillion might be worth trying too. You just use Cog for extra move. Maybe with an extra weirnob and some other endless spell (geminid, the one that heal ect.) would give you some extra bodies / characters

Gorefist was already the most competitive list before GHB 2018 for IJ. Now you get a 40 pts discount on Godrack, and 30 pts on the bataillion (almost a warchanter). But more important, you can now use more command over the course of the game (like with a greenskin warboss). So it's just strictly better. Ironjawz want to be in combat ASAP, and gorefist does exactly that. Plus pig are a tad cheap for what they does. Weirdfist got a discount, balewind at 40 pts for double cast and base -1 to hit on shaman in shooting, and new item to protect him. Also got 20 pts discount on ardboys, so it's another 40-60 pts saving total (Cause weirdfist want 2-3 of those) I think both where better than ironfist pre-GHB18, now ironfist is just 20 pts more expensive and while it's not bad, in the end it just make your army a bit faster than average (but still slower than most army) Unfortunatly, brutefist is still bad... it should cost like 120 to be playable. Ardfist as indeed potential i think (basicaly if you manage to bring back 10 ardboyz it's a net 10 pts for a CP and an artefact)

It's unfortunate, so for mix destruction it's still the old 6'' rules. Damn i tough i had a really good mixed list, but it seem IJ ability is just strictly better now

Hum that true. I still think it's key at some point in game to have the possibility to make that big move idependantly of Fungoid (and fungoid give run and charge so it just 3-4 inch extra range) I feel being able to get this extra 12'' on a likely basis,in battle round 1, or late game in battle round 4-5 can really be game breaking. I might end up just playing mix destruction to have it all hahaha

Right now knowing that the MK can move 12'' with the hero phase free move, i'll have hard time using another general. Being able to move the MK 24'' on a 4+ each turn just seem too powerful. It's sad that fungoid can only use his command if he is the general. However i'm sure there's a good mixed destro list with him.

Personnaly, i would drop the Rogue Idol for Arrowboys and try to squeeze at least 4 bigstabbas (blood waaagh is really good on BS) Geminid is a now brainer there is no competition from other spell attack spell right now.

Yeah you could go without the vortex, the list would be less hard. Vortex on Weirnob is really good. With Geminid at 24'' + 8'' and + 6'' for Foot, Bolt and Puke. I think i would take the Gryph charm on Weirnob, so he can go up to 3+ armour save and -2 to hit making him pretty survivalble, then maybe use Rockjaw on MK for addionnal mortal wound output.

You're list is not bad, pretty classic. But right now the most competitive option would be a Weirdfist, then Gorefist. Ironfist is not bad but in the end all it does is compensate your army bad movement. On the other end, Weirdfist and Gorefist allow you to dictate the play. A list like this one: Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: HyshMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)- General- Trait: Ironclad Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)Orruk Warchanter (80)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Brutes (360)Weirdfist (180)Balewind Vortex (40)Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 137 It put pressure on your opponent who want to turtle as you can reach is model with mortal wound output. That one of the big weakness of Ironjawz is that they are very easy to screen out, and Weirdfist is one of the option to mitigate that weakness (other is to play Gitmob warmachine)

you just made me reread it , did not notice the change (i played 6'' like before) it say normal move and you can run as part of a normal move. But it's now much better. Maw Krusha can move 12'' in your herophase! Pig will move 9''.

So just had my first game tonight against Seraphon (thunderquake starhost) finally. Made 1-2 light mistake (we played total comittment, I gambled for big scoring turn 1, but I half succed. He then proceed to summon and Gemenid me and that was game. We didn't played a second game as we felt the Tier level between our list was too big. As expected, summon is way too strong (especially with Engine of the god) specially when coupled with Teleport. Geminid is just so supid lol on a positive note, Aetherquartz Brooch is quite good in Ironjawz

lol nope i did not, even better but i would guess he will try to dispel it first so in the end he will loose one cast opportunity. But still it take an 8 to dispel not garantee at all. Starting to love it on paper.

What do you guys think of that? Weirnob is to cast mystic shield on Gordrackk to make him more survivable, prophet to increase the number of waaaagh (3 CP should net you +4 attack in average). Difficulty i'm expecting would be keeping 6 units in range of Megaboss. Would realy like to fit the Cog in that list, but it's getting tight in models count. Allegiance: DestructionMortal Realm: HyshGordrakk The Fist of Gork (580)Orruk Megaboss (140)- General- Trait: Prophet of the Waaagh! - Artefact: The Golden Toof Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 10 x Orruk Brutes (360)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)Ironfist (180)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 123

Depend of what you want to do, but it's between protection against mortal vs protection vs attacking power. if you want protection against mortal, best item is Ignax scale (4+). However the Mirror Cuirass is not bad (5+ but 6 bounce a mortal) and give you access to the CP regeneration item (quite good). For protection, the Etheral amulet is quite good (ignore rend). Better than ironclad, and free your trait for something else (prohet of the waagh or brutish cunning can both be quite good) There's also an item that heal d6 in gyran. If you're unsure if you need protection against mortal or normal protection it's not bad. But maybe you're just better with Daubing on mork anyway (6++) If you want to hit harder then +1 damage or increase rend cannot be bad. But if you want to hit harder you can always go for Gordrack too (hit significantly harder than normal MK) but you can't protect him except with an arcane shield... In the end it depend on how you plan to use the MK and matchup you think you'll be facing hope that help!

I like it. I've to admit i discarded Maelstrom early from my analysis, but it's probably better than I tough. being able to set up an unbinding oportunity at 18 + 8 can be good.

Oh that true? i'm sure they could. well in that case no way to make the list fit. sad

You need to use the ironskullz boys and it will fit.

So i plan to play my first AoS2 games this weekend will be nice to test real-game stuff and not just theory crafting. Working on my Ironjawz list (will be playing against deepkin, will be really tough match). I have playing with too much proxy, and i'm working with the following stuff: 30 ardboys, 15 brutes, 6 pig, 1 Maw Krusha, 1 Megaboss, 2 Weirnob Shaman, 2 Warchanter. I'm toying between classic ironfist, a Gordrack beta bomb, a weirdfist or maybe go battalions-less (with Cog to buff move) I've seen some interesting stuff in the past few day on the forum. The thing that stand out the most is the 5+ keep your command point artefact. I've come with this list i find interesting: Allegiance: Ironjawz Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440) - General - Trait: Ironclad Orruk Megaboss (140) Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120) Orruk Warboss (140) - Great Waaagh Banner - Allies 20 x Orruk Ardboys (320) 5 x Orruk Brutes (180) 5 x Orruk Brutes (180) 3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140) 3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140) 4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80) Chronomantic Cogs (60) Total: 1940 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 1 Allies: 140 / 400 Wounds: 141 It have a bit more body than classic list. I find the Orruk Warboss to also fit well in the list, and he give some Waaagh redundancy. However, with no battalion you only get 1 artefact, which is sad. I like the Golden tooth really much. But i would like the CP regeneration item as well. I could also use a warchanter over the ironskull boyz. I could also try the weirdfist. I know he will be using lense, but with the battalion bonus i should be able to do some damage: Allegiance: Ironjawz Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440) Orruk Megaboss (140) - General - Trait: Prophet of the Waaagh! Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120) Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120) 10 x Orruk Ardboys (160) 10 x Orruk Ardboys (160) 10 x Orruk Ardboys (160) 5 x Orruk Brutes (180) 5 x Orruk Brutes (180) Weirdfist (180) Balewind Vortex (40) Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40) Total: 1920 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 2 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 123 and 80 pts to play with. Any suggestion? thanks