broche

like in the first list (i would like to try a 2 MK list someday but just have 1) my question is just: Why the ironfist & bloodtooth? Why not use those 300 hundred points for Shaman, Warchanter, Ardboyz?

Yes correct. Actually Bloodtooth isn't an alpha strike. Alpha strike would be gorefist, wich i consider more viable. Gorefist is 190 pts, and you don't really need to invest more to have a viable alphastrike (maybe upgrade regular MK for Grodrack or take a Cog for extra move). But I would never play Gorefist as i don't see the real fun of playing 15 minutes games. Bloodtooth have a threat range of 20-25'' depending of unit, so not enough for an alpha strike. So it's about the range you have from 2 movement phase. Usually Pig and Ardboys can easily reach something during round 2.

I'm 100% with Blackbreaker. For me the Bloodtooth Combo is not really a good list. There's too much point invested in non-troops to in the classic Bloodtooth list. It's a good list to do 3-3 or 4-2 in a tournament, as you're certain to face some scenario you'll be missing troop or an opponent who know how to screen and will just outplay you. With the discount to Ardboys, Ironjawz can field a good amount of wound and many satellite units. With the access to waaagh stacking, it mean you can generate a good damage spike mid game. +3 attack or +7, it's not that relevant. If i can't kill it with +3 attack, i probably don't want to attack it anyway, i'm better focusing on stuff that will die to clear stuff and score point.

Played against Sunclaw Starhost (2 x 40 saurus, 1 x 10 saurus, a slaan, an engine, a bastilladon, 2 salamander) on scorched earth. He had 6 drop to my 7 so he choose to let me go first. I hit a free move and choose to move the Maw Krusha. I burn the mushroom and cast Sword and Mystic Shield on MK. Mk hit 8 mortal on destructive bulk, and kill 22 warrior total, but take 5 damages in counter attack. His turn he move a bit, shoot some stuff and MK end up at 10 damages. I won the roll and having the MK in bad shape i burn my 3 CP for +3 attack (no 6) and charge with 2 x 10 ardboys and the pig. Made a small mistake puttin a warchanter on MK instead of 10 ardboys. I miss mystic shield as well. I gamble that the arboys will finish the 16 saurus, but roll below average so no smash and bash. MK die, but Ardboys and Pig almost kill the last 40 saurus blob (he only had 1 CP for battleshock), and i'm able to burn an objective for 3 pts. So bottom of 2, he is a little in bad shape. MK is dead, but he have no model left and my 3 objectives are well defended (by brutes and ardboys). He could summon but cause of restriction it's not that usefull. He teleport Bastilladon to try to kill the brutes, but brutes roll good and he roll below average on his save and bastilladon die. He's just able to score 1. I won the priority on 3 and that was game. Learning: 1. Not sure if ardfits is good. Didn't add a chance to use it. I'm not sure being aggressive with MK was a good option, but it end up turning good in the end. 2. I really missed the retreat and charge from fungoid. I think no command trait come close to that ability. Picture end of round 1:

testing the ardfist for first time tonight: Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: GhurMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)- General- Trait: Ironclad Orruk Warchanter (80)- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm Orruk Warchanter (80)- Artefact: The Golden Toof Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)- Allies10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)Ardfist (170)Quicksilver Swords (20)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 80 / 400Wounds: 150

right now morboys seem to be the most competitive choice, the placed best general in a tournament not long ago!

Stonehorn / Thundertusk where good model (one of the best mix destruction army after GHB16 was Bonesplitterz with Thundertusk) i don't recall there was a windows where BCR was a really good army but that's possible they where.

I was referring since first GHB. Fyreslayer and Ironjawz where release before that. If you take modern battletome (so relase after there was a point system) First one were Sylvaneth and Bonesplitterz (both was arguably 2 of the best army, with lots of undercosted units). Then you had Tzeench who went on rampaging the tournameent scene. Kharadron was one of the few army i think that was not priced too bad early, but they still did pretty well on the tournameent scene with the alpha strike list. Now you have Nurgle, DoK, Stormcast and Idoneth and LoN that seem to dominate (5 most recent battletome). I think only Beastclaw raider missed the glory opportunity from their new release. But i don't think it's come necesserly from the battletome. I think they really have hard time (or maybe they do on a voluntary basis to sell models) pricing new model. There's always 2-3 skewed model in those allegiance. Like from the start, it was CLEAR hag queen at 60, and both Heel from Idoneth at 140/160 for exemple were completly off. So what you see idoneth army with 18-24 Heel and some character (same phenomen that happened when Skyfire were 160) and that it and you end up playing 2000 pts against 2300-2400 pts.

Interesting. DoK at 72% match win is insane. Idoneth at 64% is quite high as well. As usual, GW continue to have a tendency for underpricing new army.

Depend what you're ironjawz list look like. Before AOS2, 30 arrowboys was a good choice (as it filled 2 things Ironjawz lacked, bodies and shooting) but now they come at 420 pts, so not an option anymore. some Big stabbas could be a nice choice, extra rend 2 and mortal output can never be bad (and they have 3'' reach wich is really good), but you have no real way to buff them making them suboptimal. And Ironjawz already have lots of rend. In the Ironjawz thread, i've argued that a good choice could be the Savage boar boys. The got a discount in AoS 2 (now 100 for 5). They add mobility give you access to retreat and charge (which is in my opinion one of the best ability of the game). Problem is that allies will not benefit from allegiance and other Ironjawz ability. Meaning they won't count / get affected by Megaboss waaagh and won't trigger smashing and bashing. So it's a think twice.

Maybe it's just me, but retreat and charge seem like one of the best power in the game. I like the 4+ for free move, but in the end it just make you jump from 50% to 70% to hit it turn one (after that you'll likely just get a extra charges or pile in). So you don't loose it, it's just least likely to happen. Retreat/Charge is an ability you can't get otherwise. You can ensure the MK kill the right stuff and not being stuck around with tarpit units.

Yes. Also just to clarify, you use in Hero phase, count and roll at the start of the combat phase.

@Malakree yes i like it! i'm wondering if it would worth it to take fungoid as general. With 2 MK maybey you don't need ironclad that much, and retreat and charge can just sweep the game

160 for 10 model, so 16 per model, 2 life at 4+ = 4 effective life = 4 pts per effective life. Not 100% accurate, but It's a quick metric to quickly measure a units resistance.

I think it's an acceptable risk. Look at it that way, there's not that much army that can snipe him effectively. Long range shooting has been nerf pretty hard in AOS 2. If you keep him in cover, with look out sir it take something like 35 damages to take him out (withouth artifact, you can further protect him from mortal or shooting depending on what you expect in the meta). that 35 damage not on Maw Krusha or Brutes, i'll take that I would start with something like this, and adapt to your taste. It will easily hit 160 wound at 4+ minimum, something lots of army just can't chew thru it. And army that actually can (idoneth, DoK) don't really have the shooting to take out the WC. Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: GhurMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)- GeneralOrruk Warchanter (80)- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)Ardfist (170)Total: 1610 / 2000Extra Command Points: 8Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 130

I think other army are more versatile. Fyreslayer is a good comparative to Ironjawz, as they are an old battletome too. They got new rule in GHB 2017, but probably lack option as well. But they are (a lot) more resistant, and have they have deepstrike option. I don't think a Bloodtooth list is ever gonna win a major tournament. Gorefist might, but it's really difficult to win a tournament with Alphastrike army cause you'll eventually face a good players who know how to mitigate the strike and have enough left to win the game. However you should see couple of them hitting top 20-30 as it's the kind of list that will just destroy and average player field. For me potential Ironjaw winning list are Weirdfist, or an heavy Ardboyz list (probably with Ardfist). Weirdfist is the only list that have the potential to snipe important character, effectivly reducing an army effectiveness. The other can just take advantage of low cost per wound units and play a defensive objective game (if Ardfist is played RAW, it could be a nigthmare for army with weak shooting)

no, but on paper they are fine. Arrowboys are 15 damages average, 60 life at 6+ for for 420 pts. However the do get rend 1 agains monster (huge buff). The do however have lots of buff available cause they have a book, make them much better in non-mixed army. 40 orruk is 280 pts, will do 10 shooting damage if they don't move. 40 life at 5+. The do however double their melee output if they are 20+. Best choice IMO for generic battle line is gitmob grot with bow. You loose 2 inch range, but they can move withouth penalty, and for 80 pts you can add the shaman his spell does +1 to wound and add rend 13. 33 damage average while more than 30, but 20 with the spell (work on their melee weapon too). 270 pts only for the 60 goblin. Problem is, painting 3 x 60 of those guy would be painful!

Not sure they have won a tournament yet. I guys posted earlier he finished quite high at a 30-man local tourney with bloodtooth (from top of my head he had MK, megaboss, fungoid, warchanger, 3 x 5 brutes, 2 x 3 gruntas bloothooth + COG) Other than that most sucessful destruction list on the tournameent scene is Mixed Magma Dragon and a second place Bonesplitterz

you could play 1 x 30 and 3 x 10 if you want more units the discount doesn't make out that much for the board coverage you lose. And you can always ally the Greenskin Warboss with the banner who have unrestricted waaagh, and reroll 1 to wound in Ironjawz is basically an ongoing extra free attack.

I think this phenomen have a lot to do with how they are currently played right now. It seem most players go for either Gorefist or Bloodtooth/cog with the brooch. Both are relativly low wound and body count army that will left you little chance of winning if you miss your strike somehow (so if your opponent screen well or he if has better mobility and kill you before). Personnaly I don't play those list (i more into weirdfist and bataillion-less). As someone mention earlier, a Ardboys spam (at least 50) playing the objectives could cause trouble to lots of army especially with the battleshock protection available now (golden tooth and reactive inspiring presence). At 4 points per effective life, Ardboys are among the most resistant units in the game by default. With the Waaagh, Maw krusha and Brutes that hit like a train, Ironjaw is one of the very good counterpunching army right now.

i would probably go -5 brutes, - cog, +10 ardboys, +1 warchanter. But I think playing the Hag i'll just ditch the bloodtooth for more bodies and you loose the one drop anyway.

You can still get de d6 bonus move from ironfist, but Allegience ability have change. Ironjawz is you roll a die for each character, and on a 6 (you get +2 to roll for your general if he is a megaboss) you either get a free move if you're more than 12'' away any ennemy units, a free charge if you're within 12'' or a free pile in move if you're engage (just the move, not the attack). So basically round 1 with a bit of luck you can get a 12'' free move on a Maw krusha wich is quite good. Problem is that you can't really rely on that ability as it is quite random, and opponent can negate it by putting units withint 12'' (but that mean close stuff to kill wich is good)

Brutes are more killy, but ardboys are more resistant (read really cheap per effective life), and more models. Ardboys are great objective holder, and will win combat against most non-elite units. Personnaly I like playing a mix of Brutes, Ardboys and Gruntas as they fill different role (brutes for killing stuff, ardboys for board coverage and gruntas for speed)

DAMN I always forget stupid Fungoid!! I guess is at best with MawKrusha

even with 4 or 5 bonus attack, lots of stuff will not die to 5 brutes (DoK, Fyreslayer, Nurgle, Sequitor, Phoenix Guard) but will likely with 10.