Kaleb Daark
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Posts posted by Kaleb Daark
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2 hours ago, pnkdth said:
Is it truly a luxury hobby though?
Similar to the Vince's argument that the hobby is actually good value when you consider the hours of fun it gives you this sounds more as a rationalisation or comping mechanism. When I hear the word luxury I associate it with a premium experience which justifies paying well above the "actual" value of the product itself. In contrast we have things like the official apps, WH+, and the overall quality/delivery of rules which are questionable to say the least.
Moving on to the miniatures, do I get a luxury experience here? I would argue no, since quite a lot of releases are timed exclusives (a nicer way of calling them FOMO boxes) which leads to me having to jump through hoops to get what I want. The quality of models are great IMO, love 'em, but the delivery is far removed from a luxury experience.
I would also challenge the notion it has "always been a luxury hobby" since in the past you got more minis for less and I never recall being so much on the fence about buying new minis. It was quite easy to get past the initial 1k pts hump without feeling like you just gave up a portion of your soul and dignity in the process. So many boxes have been repackaged with fewer minis yet kept increasing in price then placed in battleforce boxes (I'm looking at you hedonites) to make them seem like "good value." I mean it is the oldest sales trick in the book, offer something that seem too much and then offer something that suddenly seem reasonable in comparison. Plants a false sense of value.
They could, however, make good on the whole premium brand by improving the customer experience/choice aspect + much improved quality assurance as far as rules are concerned.
So in the end, I think GW is trying to rebrand themselves as the premium choice in wargaming. Whether it will work remains to be seen since, much like others have observed, the hobby overall has seen a real shake-up lately and have introduced players to new (and old) systems. Which is really good for us as I think we might very well see added pressure on GW to step up their game.
Personally, I consider myself a tabletop gamer/hobbyist rather than a warhammer player. I'm not throwing the baby out with the bath water but GW has had to share my hobby pie with games like Malifaux, Infinity, and Star/Frostgrave for awhile now. While those are skirmish games I've really come to appreciate building and creating smaller crews. As far as GW is concerned, both Kill Team and Warcry are still on my radar.
TL;DR: Competition good. Happy hobbying! 😊
yes and no.
From a commercial perspective it's a high end niche product. One defines luxury from a commercial sense as something that a customer wants rather than needs. If you don't have food and clothes and utilities and rent then there are repercussions, if you don't have plastic soldiers it's not the end of the world.
It's not a fast moving consumer good (FMCG) and prices even from the beginning have been aimed at the collector and enthusiast. We're talking a single old citadel model which was back in the late 80s the cost of three pints of milk.
So in reality it's never been cheap in that respect.
What GW and citadel used to do in the past was discount old stock, end of line etc. That doesn't happen now.
What you say though is also true and it's an old marketing trick - you know that those two gargants are 125 bones each, so when you have two in a box for 125, then it's essentially the discount but wrapped up with some clever words - but to you the customer the "perceived value" is still high as they're not discounted as such, but you know to buy them separately would cost twice that. Its what they did with the imperial knights if you remember.
It's a trick that the auto industry have been doing for years - throw out an edition of a car which is a weak seller with lots fo toys as standard and people feel they're getting a great deal vs speccing the parts separately. it's a simplistic overview, but you're on the money really about the hidden in plain sight discount without the big 50% off sticker on it.
Doing it that way won't cause any damage to "perceived value" of the product or brand, but If they offered to give 50% off then customers will wait till then and buy - and it devalues the brand.
Things like Black friday enable someone like GW should they choose, to do obvious discounting again without devaluing the brand as it's all a bit of an annual event now.
So we get onto value. Again it's all wrapped up in the perception of things, and what it's worth to us as we are all emotionally invested as much as financially invested.
A character model is in the region of 20 plus now. to someone outside of our sphere that seems like madness. However you can get an old cheap car for less money than you can a warlord titan.
You got a mortgage to pay and you start to throttle back on that warlord titan.
That food shop for the week is cheaper than that big here model you were about to drop on.
So, the cost of our hobby boils down to what we are willing to pay, and what we find acceptable. And those metrics change, they slide with our life needs and situation.
GW like everyone in the world selling something will only stop raising prices when nobody is willing to buy their stuff. until then, your only thought should be what you are willing to pay, and what you find acceptable.
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2000 points was and is a legacy from old fantasy battle towards the middle of it's life span.
back in 2nd and 3rd ed the points limit was 3-6k, but then again a chaos knight was costing in the region of 100 points.
When we played 1000 point games what we saw back in fantasy was a change in the power dynamic.
So, in old fantasy, a chaos warrior army was forced to take marauders at sub 1000 points if you wanted to survive, as the smaller points games favoured the low point high model count armies like skaven, goblins etc, with skaven and undead absolutely winning as you could just load up on graveguard.
With a high per model count elite army like chaos you'd be noticing a total shift once you tipped the 1250 points mark as in reality you couldn't bring any wrecking balls to the party below that.
But that was then and this is now.
Perhaps also at the same time, go the other way, and look at the rules and see what could be dreamed up for games of 4k plus - we've all got big collections and I think some sort of apocalypse type rules set would actually be very cool with a totally new way of working with generals and army composition.
I do think small games can be fun, and force you to think differently about not only go to alpha units but also to how you use them and move them in order to mitigate disadvantage when you don't have numbers. Also it's not like AoS heroes on the whole (unique characters at some specials excepted) are like the heroes of old fantasy, where you could happily do 4-500 points (25% of your army) just on one character.
I don't doubt that with the advent of homegrown and community comping in AoS1 people just reverted back to the 2000 points of old fantasy and it just stuck, and that was easy for GW to buy into as for them it was a case of "well, if they're happy with that 2000pt thing..."
Perhaps it's time for the community / GW to really examine if this is now fit for purpose or if a new model is required, after all, even things like movement was driven around a standardised table of 4x4 or 4x6, and look at the impact that had when they reconfigured table size to 'dining table pattern' and altering play style and dynamics. Cut 6-12" off a table and suddenly you rethink taking artillery with a minimum range for example.
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5 minutes ago, Jator said:
I can understand the price rise on metals, but can someone please explain to me what's the reasoning behind the 20% rise on Blood Bowl teams?
because people will pay it. Simple as. And therin lies the tale.
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10 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:
So I have been looking into other game systems and this is the exact push I needed. I am not leaving AOS but I am definitely not going to be getting a new army or really adding anything more significant to my existing armies... Maybe one or two units when big releases come out, but overall I am pretty happy with my armies. In essence they have finally priced me out... a number of years back 😅
So the real question is what is the better game system between SW: Legion and Marvel Crisis Protocol? As much as I would rather support a smaller IP my friends are interested in the bigger more familiar game systems. My top pick would be Armada but pre-painted models (even knowing I can repaint them) feels a little like sacrilege. The positive news is that now I can point to this increase to get out of the pressure to avoid my friends getting me into 40k.
Also wasn't Warhammer + going to be the companies saving grace? 😉
Maybe if they cut down on those productions they can balance their books?I've fallen for X-wing in a big way, but my friend is going to be introducing me to Crisis Protocol soon.
To all of the above posters, it's worth bearing in mind that yes the margins are high, and yes the profits are vast per unit, however GW is run by shareholders and those shareholders or the company aren't going to see their margins diminished so you don't feel pain.
Now where they're concerned, if you keep buying, then they'll keep rising. Just remember profit rules all. When profits drop the question gets asked why.
Every industry is the same, especially when it comes to raw materials, and even if they aren't impacted to a great degree are using the excuse to crank prices up exponentially.
Rest assured people, whatever walk of life you're facing these price rises, we've all got another couple if not three years of this BS.
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22 hours ago, Public Universal Duardin said:
This is why you should all be Chaos Dwarf fans. Can't be disappointed when you never get an army.
Yup, unlike elfs we're always smiling, as it's can only go one way. UP.
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3 hours ago, KingBrodd said:
What are everyones predictions for next weeks Pre Orders?
Battletome: Emperors Clothes
If you didn't see it you must be a simpleton.
oh and War Mammoth and new boxed set: Chaos Dwarfs vs arctic fox riding haelflingkin box set.
Fire and ice box set will be Limited edition, 125 bones, matches not supplied.
Guaranteed to be more broken than a smashed glass to ensure uptake and then will be kicked in the magma cannon next balance update.
guaranteed to receive no further support for at least three release cycles to ensure dwarf player grudges are successfully upheld.
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1 hour ago, Rachmani said:
The Disappointed will get souped with the Dispossessed & the Kharadron Overlords.
Mark my words.
Battletome: Dispossessed Overdisappointed, was the plan all along.
They no longer heed grudges, but nourish disappointments instead. Only through stories though, as they somehow lost all their stuff. Including books and ships.
The latter were stolen by GW marketing, who now use them liberally on prints.who needs a race that bears grudges when you have the players who stand by them to do it for you.
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7 hours ago, Jymmy said:
It can always be War in the North for next week release
Ohhh did someone say war mammoths and chaos dwarfs?
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16 hours ago, Maogrim said:
You forgot Tyrion, my friend. Surely you are just as gitty as I am for the Archmage's shining and radiant twin brother as the herald of the Lumineth's war aspect?!
does he smile or has he got a long face as well ?
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1 hour ago, Maogrim said:
With that being said I would like for Morathi to stay on her own.
Battletome Single mum?
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5 hours ago, JackStreicher said:
It’s funny how suddenly every faction is supposed to get merged without the slightest evidence.
calm down guys
You wait till they release Grand Alliance: Mortal Realms
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6 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:
Not without a campaign at least or a few combined stories to actually explain why it happened.
As is their efforts haven’t got the groups to agree on joining forces. Broken Realms built a bit towards it but then that build-up dispersed as Grombi was no where to be seen and Grungni hopped over to Azyr to help Sigmar and then had a White Dwarf story show him watching his people from a far and being impressed by their feats without him.
And then we have the Corebook and current lore showing they’re still divided and even have instances of attacking eachother over their magic golds or depending which side of a in-debt Dawner party they’re on.
If we get a campaign lead-up, Grungni and a new large force of mecha & Fyre mixed duardin that practically turn them into a new army of sci-fi pyromaniacs that control the skies and lava veins below so they can practically forge new lands, flying continents and even sub-realms(that is actually something Grungni taught the duardin to make artificial realms) then more than fine. That’s all badass and builds on new narratives while playing to their strengths an unique armies.
But just throwing in a white bearded hero with off-hand soup and calling it a day? Nope. Won’t be happy about that and would vastly prefer different tomes to continue fleshing them out.
Totally agree, but I’m thinking from their perspective. Its a short term easy solution at the moment.
easier currently to bang out lore and a book than to bang out models if push comes to shove.
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2 hours ago, mojojojo101 said:
really the only thing that would be pinning them together would be Grugni/Grombindal telling them to.
I think that’s probably good enough for the tome de soup to get going with.
other way of looking at it is that each of them have very little in the way of options so just print it all in the one book and save on costs.you might find that even though they’re under one cover, they all remain quite separate.
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2 hours ago, Turragor said:
this is the stupidest thirster I have ever seen, since the last stupid thirster
Corrected for you, no charge, all part of the service, y'all have a nice day now
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3 hours ago, GenericEdgyName said:
I think you will find that the image is for an updated Katakros with even mightier er... heroic deathly protrusion.
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Just now, HollowHills said:
IDK and DoK aren't getting souped.
the soup would be very salty, and not every one likes fish.
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2 minutes ago, Sigmarusvult said:
Imagine if they soup idk with dok 😂
What would the box be called? Blind and Bind?
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I hereby decree that the following...
The Elf domigladiatrix is trying to be a dwarf.
Look how un elegant and short her armoured legs are. - See, dwarf aspirations.
Look how Morathi didn't pick someone who has longer legs than the rest to carry off armoured legs - see, longings for dwarven-ness.
Dead wispy Blokes...
The not-dead-bret crossbows are all of the cool. I love them. That is all.
however....
What is it with GW and gardners and accountants?
Nurgle, and Slaanesh have both got gardens, Khorne has angry farmers in iron dungarees, and large animal pens for his iron and brass dog-cow herds to stampede.
Nurgle has an accountant to keep count, and now Nagash has one too. But you know it counts for nothing as Manfred will just fiddle the books.
K'bunga bunga...
Well, that thing can go do one. It's awful.
The Angrath Thirster that FW do is sublime, a brutal model that just speaks to you so perfectly about what a thirster is, but this thing... oh my poor aged and unassisted eyes.. they have truly been offended.
Leaping kitty Thirster got angry and put some armour he'll grow into one day on and pulled a pose for his Instakhorne page.
Sweet mother of destruction and all that is pointy and hurty... dear chaos gods on a lettuce leaf, save us from this terrible sculpting and just give me more of your sublime FW Angrath thirster.
You can tell that the main GW studio have gone in there and imposed their "design language" onto the poor denizends of FW island. "Your thirster was always better and ours sucked Rhinox cluster.. we can't have that so you're using this stupid thing.. or else.."
You know what... I'd have loved to have a weapons upgrade pack for the Angrath thirster to allow me to make the other thirsters available - that would have been amazing.
Oh my holy days... Chaos... moving with the modern times by killing your opponent by making them literally laugh themselves to death at just how comical you look.
Terrible business... terrible I tell thee.
I therefore am of the opinion that in the worlds that these creatures inhabit there's a role playing wargame called payrolls and Paychecks where the players can get to play office workers and mindless salary drones and gain experience by becoming supervisors and managers.
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3 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
Skaven vs Sylvaneth battle box confirmed!
Don’t be so stupid. Its the new Skaveneth faction. As a people they’ve been very silent so as not to draw attention to themselves.
didn’t you notice the hidden in plain sight plastic wooden rat skull in the skulls box?
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19 minutes ago, Bosskelot said:
I don't know why you're all so surprised.
9th edition's big narrative thrust was the return of the Silent King, the bigger awakening of the Necrons and the building of the Pariah Nexus; a task of such galactic importance it would effect every single faction.
None of this has been followed up in any further material or campaign books and we're almost 2 years into the edition.
After that amount of sleep its probably taken him two years to work out where the bathroom is.
You wait till kragnos properly comes round fully and realises he’s actually a beastman , he’ll go nuts.
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2 hours ago, Gothmaug said:
Forest thehe huh? Cold, dark, conifer-dominant boreal forest? You could go with a wendigo theme for the gorgers pretty easily. Or at least use one as a unit leader. Based on the stories and mythos from the native north American tribes in what is present day Canada. Gaunt, starving creatures with (or wearing) Caribou, moose or elk skulls. There's a ton of wendigo models out there on Etsy and other resin modeling sites if you need models or bits.
In which case Sir needs to get forgeworld to bring back the incarnate elemental of beast.. thats what sir needs.
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On 1/15/2022 at 11:02 PM, Talas said:
Is it just me or they didn't mention The Old World at all?
they won't until it's ready to drop. Until then it just falls under the term "new project developments". it's generally retrospective rather than a prospective review.
All these reports are there for is to justify to shareholders where their money has been spent and what a worthwhile venture it is to still invest in.
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1 hour ago, Battlefury said:
I would like to know you opinion about the state of acceptance due to specific points:
1. Prices increasing with each new release.
2. Rules bloated. It sometimes takes more than 4 ooks / releases to have all of the rules together.
3. Power level increasing with new releases, leaving older armies behind.
4. GW basically neglecting certain factions, wich just don't get anything new and up to date.
5. Models being locked behind paywalls, or big box sets, for a long period of time.
6. FAQ debacle.
7. Massive FOMO
Why do you accept this mess? Looking for individual opinions here.
cheers///
The answer to any thread like this is always a resounding no, we've all got our misgivings, but unless you're the majority shareholder of GW stock your belly aching is going to fall on deaf ears as far as the mothership ar concerned.
As always with things like this, you have to vote with your wallet and your feet.
Any business will just look at profits. If they fall consistently then and only then questions are asked.
If you keep spending irrespective of your misgivings then nothing will change.
If you don't like it don't spend. It's harsh to say but it's what GW would say to you. Everything you're talking about is the direction they obviously want to go in and all the while the money is dropping into the bank they really are fine with that path.
It's just the way it is.
Sadly threads like this don't serve anything other than to give you three pages of angry and a mod telling you to can it and lock it up at the end of it.
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Since we have Vulkite berserkers why not Kite berserkers, with wee winged contraptions on their backs like the skittaari skystalkers? Thermal currents caused by furnace runes and all that, and different enough to not be floaty dwarf balloon dudes.
... or just give them the FW magma dragon in plastic and be done with it.
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Price increase on GW Products (coming 7th March)
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
Exactly.
stores and their associated costs and staffing wages bills all mount up pretty quick.
its frightening really. A store, two staff and all the bills and you’ve done nearly 50-75k without even a penny going in the till.
For a business like theirs its a double edged sword as well. If you kill off the retail stores you suddenly have a profit spike as it all goes online with overheads dropping.
what you then have is a slowing of sales until you start spending money to make your online presence attract new blood and get your brand out there.
At that point you’d be rethinking distribution as lets face it, if you didn’t have stores then people have no real reason to pay ful rrp and instead just use indi’s.
for me its all about the relationship with my local store manager- if I don’t like the guy, then online with a discount it is.
as you say- you either afford it or you can’t.