Hebroseph

Not taking metalcruncher makes my stonehorn heart sad

Fair enough, a thermal rider cloak FLOSH is a valid option for threatening a flank. Its not tailoring to a specific opponent, its a group of opponents. Blocks of gluttons have no answer for any of the top tier opponents. This is just an out of the box thought exercise to try and come up with something besides feeding meat into the Mortek Guard grinder and never getting anything back from it. If you got all 12 Gluttons into a Petrefix Mortek Block, and got all 36 swings in, you would average 28 hits, then 18 wounds, and they would fail a whopping 2 for a grand total of 4 damage from your 400 points unit. That same squad of 20 guard then swing back dealing 15.56 damage killing almost 4 gluttons. Their 230 points killed as many models as your 400 point squad did. Then Arkhan regenerates 3 of the 4 dead and so on and so on. That seems like a folly to fall into that trap when its no different facing off against hearthguard berserkers, or keeper of secrets, or plague monks. One of my matches, my OBR opponent was jovially talking trash about how resilient his Guard are, and I rolled hot, 5 MW on my Flosh on the charge, then rolled a 6 for metalcruncher and ate his 10 man unit before taking a swing. He didnt think it was funny anymore lol. Shooting and mortal wounds answer a lot of problems with top lists, but there are plenty of people trying to make an Underguts list work

Right, but did you read the list idea. I'm aware that cats arnt very good. What they do have is deepstriking and the ability to put pressure on enemy objectives. 12 gluttons and change does nothing when you lose the whole unit and kill 3 fyreslayers, or a double fighting terrorgeist/ keeper of secrets one shots the unit before they get to swing. I know gluttons are good, but only against units that also arnt good in melee. They are school yard bullies who fold against somebody who actually knows how to fight. Removing hunters, cats and skal, for another block of gluttons, just makes it a regular Ogre list, that can't compete against top lists. I'm trying to think outside the box and give us a shot against some of the better lists. Kinda how like Beasts of Chaos, has units across the board that are trash, but they still pull out wins because they play to the objective and not to killing. I'm trying to use our fast, obnoxious units, to stall to make it too late to eat through 96 wounds of ogres late game to take back objectives and catch up on points. I've run 3 blocks of 12 gluttons, when it works, it works great but not really the point of the above list. Edit: concerning the Yhetee vs Glutton issue I ran the numbers, 3 gluttons, 9 attacks at 3/3/-/2 and 3 attacks at 3/3/-1 generate 5.48 wounds against a 4+ save Yhetee without the general's buff to wound with 9 attacks 4/3/-1/2 generate 4.67 wounds per round against a 4+ save and 5.83 wounds with the generals buff to their wound roll. Less than half a wound difference, while requiring buff radius management isn't what i call "significantly outperforming". Infact, because they are so equal, I think running one big block, to be easier to keep the buff going instead of trying to juggle multiple units in the radius, while maximizing the damage swing on striking first, is the way to go for WB Yhetees. Get in, get as much damage done before the opponent swings, to help mitigate their 6+ save.

I've read and been told conflicting reports concerning the Yhetee tactic of piling in outside of combat range. I've read that if you wait till your opponent is out of combat activations and passes the turn to you, you can then pile in and fight with the yhetee, but because your opponent has "officially passed the turn" he can't go back and reactivate a unit. That seems like the kind of rules interaction that would get FAQ'ed and i've been told that it doesnt work that way, but I couldnt find anything in the FAQ about it. I've also been told that it works, but only during your opponents turn, but they couldnt provide any info either. Anybody have any cite-able sources, or direct me to the right FAQ that addresses this? It goes a long way towards seeing Yhetees as being a valued option in Mawtribes, or just speed bumps.

I am 11 games in with my new mawtribes army and i'm currently sitting at 8-4 win/loss. Not all games were super competitive as part of them were during an escalation league so point values and lists changed drastically over the weeks. My three losses were to 120 Plague monks, Ironjawz that beat me on objective, and also lost to me previously(very close match, could of gone either way) and Fyreslayers, who got a first turn charge with 30 berzerkers into most of my army and then killed most of said army. I realized that most of my wins vs mid tier armies came from curb stomping units with big blocks of gluttons and leadbelchers. My wins vs upper tier armies like OBR and Slaanesh came from scoring objectives, something that Mawtribes kinda excels at with our new rules. I set out to design a list that I think could capitalize on our ability to score, and worry less about killing things. We dominate melee vs non-melee armies, but against an army designed to fight, we lack the tools to beat them. Either supreme defense like OBR Mortek and Fyreslayer berserkers, or fight first antics like FEC/Slaanesh/STD/Whoever, counters our general lack of rend and normal combat order. In my loss vs Fyreslayers, I lost because I got tabled, but I did manage to casually take away objectives from them. Being on 40mm bases We are able to crowd out the 12 inch bubble around objectives very easily, and counting for 2 for scoring makes it hard for people to get enough into range out point us. I started thinking about this and this is what I came up with: Hunter, General Wintertouched with Frostfang Hunter Butcher - Wizardflesh apron, Ripcracker Spell Battleline 2 x 6 Sabertooth Cats 1 x 12 Gluttons Other 1 x 12 Leadbelchers 1 x 9 Icefall Yhetees Balewind Vortex Prismatic Palisades Skal Battalion The premise behind the list vs an opponent you can't out melee is to jam the opponent early and hopefully get up on points, and then make them chew through our hitpoints to take back the points. You won't out attrition them, but hopefully you can out score them. Depending on the mission you operate in two flanks, with the yhetees running towards where the hunter general deepstrikes in with his cats. The other hunter and cats deepstrike towards the other objectives, with gluttons backing them up. Leadbelchers move down the middle with the butcher to try and support which ever side needs it. The plan is by the time they chew through the cats, they have to deal with yhetees and gluttons, and by they finish those, hopefully you are high enough on the points that they can't come back in the last round or two. If you are playing an opponent who is faster or has more deepstrike to try and take your objectives, then you play a more normal Ogre list, which I have not had much problem handling. Using your cats instead to screen or protect your objectives, while your boys churn through their army. I'm currently short 6 cats, but will be proxying them this weekend and trying out this list. I think this has some serious legs, but will take a lot of practice to get good at positioning and also knowing what your opponent is capable of. Winterbite is kind of a "whatever" pick. The purpose of this list is to stall for time and ramp up the score as fast as possible. Meatfist is a wash, there isnt room for enough shooting for Underguts, Boulderhead and thunderbelly are missing units. With only one wizard, bloodgullet seemed kind of a waste, especially since your butcher will have to move around, and can't stand by the pot for the cast bonus. With Winterbite, I figure the -1 to hit in shooting in your half, helps in some match ups, the +1 to wound fighting first for cats and yhetees helps output damage. More damage means less hitting you, and the longer you can stall. I put the wizard apron on the butcher mostly because I didnt know what else to pick. I figure with balewind up, you can cast palisades to get in the way and buy more time, and then start casting rip cracker and the maw to try and whittle down a unit facing off against your boy Comments, concerns, critiques?

A unit of 8 would take up so much board space you would never get them all into combat. Also I don't have the math infront of me, but id be willing to bet, if your only reason for running 8 was to do mortal wounds on a 4+, on an average charge roll of 7, you are going to get 3.5 mortals. If you used three units of 2, and charged the same target, getting 3 models in is pretty easy, and then your rolling 21 dice and you will probably get equal to 3.5 mortals on 6's

Nice conversions. Its a personal pet peeve when people "Convert a new butcher" and its just an irongut with gutplate and a different hand.

First thing i figured out with the new book. Leadbelchers are a melee unit with a gun, not a gun unit with melee.

I like the list. I'm a big fan of a hunter and a cat pile as a way to put pressure on the opponent. Sure they die to a stiff breeze, but it still requires your opponent to turn and address them.

Even then, the beastriders do not get mount traits, so its still kinda waste. The only way I see taking boulderhead is if you want their relic (Its one of the best tribe relics especially with clatterhorn) or you don't want/have points for a battalion.

Boulderhead locks you into a warlord trait and a relic. Now granted Boulderhead is one of the better tribes we can take, it shouldnt be seen as auto include if you are taking 2 Big BCR riders. Taking them in Bloodgullet and giving your FLosh the splatter cleaver so that he heals both of them every time he kills a model will give you way more value than +1 hitpoints. If you play in a very shooty meta, you could run them as Winterbite for the -1 to hit that first turn while in your territory. That plus the off chance that your Frost Lords spear can grow in damage each turn is kinda neat. If you play BCR, odds are you have a hunter and 4 cats. If so Skal is an easy and great Battalion to run. Deepstriking is one of the strongest abilities in the game, along with free CP, Free Relic, Free Mount Trait, all rolled into one low low cost package. After all of that, yes, sometimes its just easier to run in Boulderhead, but the army is too new to just make broad sweeping assumptions like you always need to run X tribe if Y is true.

It would depend on how the rest of your list was built. All stonehorn is not a terrible thing, but it has some glaring weaknesses. Namely every loss, is 10 Objective holders gone so depending on the mission, this can be devastating very quickly. If you took 2 i think a battalion would be mandatory so they both could have mount traits. Ethereal amulet and metalcruncher on one to wear down their good armor save units, and another with clatterhorns to one shot units is a decent choice.

I proxied it in one match, and my opponent just moved away from me. That could of just been placement, we play with terrain heavy tables in my meta, and it makes putting the pot where i need it kinda inconvenient

The CA is decent, the relic is one of the better ones forced on you for taking a tribe. Our spell lore is in the running for one of the best in the game, except for the 7 to cast on most and no "good" ways to get bonuses. I think it was Doom and Darkness review where he said casting spells in mawtribes is like gambling. You are just hoping one goes off, not counting on all of them to go off." Or something along those lines and thats pretty close to the truth. Our spells are so decent, that just one going off is enough to help your army win whatever fight its about to embark on and that is saying something. I just see so many people say they played into army X with +1/2/3/4/whatever to deny and they didnt cast anything all game. Has anybody had any success with Firebelly and a balewind vortex? Seems kinda cheeky and sneaky to hang out behind your line and deal consistent mortal wounds to people who engage your gluttons.

I keep telling myself that Bloodgullet is a trap, that hard casting 7's as an army ability is trash, and then I make my army bloodgullet anyways. I never seem to get more than one spell off a round, even with the extra casts. I never seem to stay near the mawpot because your army tends to move towards the enemy quickly and if you stay with the pot you will get out of range rapidly. Doubling down on the ability to cast amazing spells, with a subpar chance seems silly. But you know, meatfist sucks so here I am.

Not a whole lot higher. 12 gluttons that all get in, with 36 swings and 12 bites generate about 4.9 wounds on avg to mortek guard with 3+ petrifex with full rerolls. That being said. with decent 4+ MW on the charge rolls and one or two dice to not be average and you just bodied the 10 man unit. 30 man squads are a difference story. You are gonna want a metal cruncher flosh for that nonsense. In my last game against OBR my bright and shiny stars were leadbelchers. That 1 rend makes the WORLD of difference vs Mortek Guard. knocking that avg damage from 4 and change to 7 + on average dice. I always bring atleast 10 Leadbelchers with me, they are money every game.

I'm not hating that idea. Having faced the new OBR Catapults, deepstriking a unit of cats in their backline to chase after them sounds great to me.

The official word is I bought a Butcher last week and it came with a 50MM base, not a 40mm square or round.

All of mine have been in white boxes with no picture. Its possible some old colorized boxes are floating around with square bases.

You can convert any of the ogre models into a butcher. Lore wise Butchers abstain from using a gutplate, and that is pretty much the defining characteristic that makes them stand out from other models in the army. That being said, its pretty easy to just slap some greenstuff over the gutplate hole and tada, ogre butcher. You can probably use the butcher weapons even if you wanted.

All of my ogres I purchased since release have come with rounds. Only one that came with squares was the slaughtermaster and it came with its square and oval base.

It goes on the same base as a Tyrant, not a Glutton. Butchers, Tyrants and Maneaters all moved to 50mm, gluttons, leadbelchers and ironguts are all on 40mm.

You can convert any of the ogre models into a butcher. Lore wise Butchers abstain from using a gutplate, and that is pretty much the defining characteristic that makes them stand out from other models in the army. That being said, its pretty easy to just slap some greenstuff over the gutplate hole and tada, ogre butcher. You can probably use the butcher weapons even if you wanted.

I wish Maneaters had more flash for their points. they are the "fun stuff" that lets the player customize to their hearts content but I don't see much need to take them.

2 blocks of 12 gluttons and a Tyrant.