Drofnum

I really like them both. They just fulfill different roles really. Both can be MVP of a match pretty easily.

His primary role in your eyes is spellcasting. That isnt how I play him and honestly if you only play him like that its a waste, he is a decent beat stick with 2 spells, 12 wounds and a 3+ save that he can reliably get to 2+ rerolling. Sure if you use him simply as a caster he will not make his points back, but if you do that you arent using him to his full potential. Every time i've taken AoStorm i've been disappointed with him cause the AoSea can do enough damage that I dont miss the Storm and his signature spell is amazing if you use him aggressively and can hit 3+ targets with it. I get that you prefer Storm but you're doing a disservice to everyone reading this by acting like he has no place in lists, your lists are not always the only best lists, which is what you seem to say whenever you come in to this thread. He can give himself abyssal darkness(Plus all around him get it) Mystic shield or Tsunami enemies around him. Its very rare that the Sea cant heal himself if needed, I rarely use his reroll. To get the same survivability from Storm you need supporting pieces, like another tidecaster or two.

On average Storm will do 8 wounds against a 4+ save, Sea will do about 5.5. Its much closer than you think.

AoSea is far from useless, he will do nearly the same damage output as the Storm and gets his 2 spells. ALso has far far more survivability than the Storm alone or 2 Tidecasters. If you're expecting Arkhan you will be disappointed but he is not the useless piece you make him out to be.

It doesnt say pick X units. It says pick A unit, their argument would only hold up if it says for each 3+ pick 2( or 3 or 4 or X) units. Edit: Also what FAQ are they referring to?

You get rerolls to charge on eels, on Thralls it may be worth it but with eels you never really fail with +3.

You can do 2 full ships, 2 half's of a ship or a full ship and a half ship. You basically get to place 2 terrain pieces total, the configuration of them is up to you.

Aspect of the Sea tends to do as much for me as my 6 eels every game I play. Works best to use him aggressively which I dont see most people doing. Edit: I do feel like cogs are kind of a waste with us though, maybe if you keep the tidecaster back casting spells it could be okay but if you do that you can realistically only cast Arcane Corrasion each turn anyway so not sure what the point of them would be? We really dont need the 2" move.

Arkanaut company combo very well with the Hurricanum if you just need generic battleline.

Is turn 2 high tide worth losing the command ability from a king/Volturnos? Thats been the only thing holding me back from taking it, I really wish we had a couple more command abilities at our disposal to make the tidecaster general more attractive.

You dont pick a new general in matched play games. Thats only for Open/Narrative.

Yeah exactly it works for Idoneth but does not work for their Allies, eels cant shield the eternal guard for example. I did also think about heartrenders, I just dont know that they really give us something we dont have. Their deepstrike is a bit more flexible than a Soulscryer but the soulscryer can take much more potent units with him and get them very reliable charges. I hear heartrenders are normally just used for turn 3/4 objective grabs though so maybe they're worth it. I generally just find it hard to cap objectives with how few units/models I bring to a game so i think I would prefer the eternal guard. I've also been playing most my games at 1500 though so 2k might be a bit better in regards to objective play.

I think for pure screening you would be better off just allying in some eternal guard. Same survivability as Thralls for half the points.

Pretty sure its intended honestly. Its a command ability requiring him to be general and only happens in one turn a game. Its really easy to play around once you know about it.

I dont know that anyone is saying you have to have battalions, but it is nice to have the flexibility. Personally i think Nighthaunt is a pretty bad matchup for us, they basically ignore half of our on charge buffs(Rend bonuses). And take long enough to die that its pretty hard to get multiple charges off against them, granted i've only played 2 matches against new nighthaunt so it might just mean I need to make some adjustments still.

AoSea is basically my MVP every game. You just have to play him aggressively, I see a lot of people holding him back and playing him like he's just a caster, if you do that then he is not even close to worth his points. My last game against a Kroak list he basically absorbed the first 2 rounds of combat while holding an objective and debuffed my opponents entire army. Abyssal darkness + mystic shield makes him one of the very few units that gets a 2+ rerollable save so he can be very durable, toss a sword of judgement on his fishes and he is a hero/monster killer as well.

I just keep Volturnos out of combat round 1 really. Round 2 you can charge him in to something you're confident he can kill outright or survive the retaliation. With his 3+ save its not too hard for him to survive 1-2 rounds of combat with most things, and generally the things that would kill him are the things you have your eels trying to kill. Its basically just all about target priority. I lost my king/Volturnos in my first couple games early and since then havent had them die before round 5 and they are engaged in combat from turn 2 on in most of my games. Having a caster with Abyssal Darkness near the king helps out a lot too, a 2+ save is pretty tough to kill with just about anything and throw in a mystic shield if you're really worried about him.

I play him pretty exclusively and like him quite a lot. I played a generic king my last two games and he seemed very underwhelming compared to Volturnos, although a lot of that was poor dice rolls those two games. I really like the increased range on Volturnos abilities as well as the spell ignore, and if you need cloud of midnight you're positioning him wrong anyway.

On the command abilities stacking, I think some will get FAQ'd. But I doubt Idoneth will, in order to use any of ours the unit has to be a general and for the Kings you can only use them 1 turn per battle. Thats already really limiting, preventing them from stacking just seems overkill and means you end the game with 2-4 unused command points 90% of the time.

That didnt really tell us much about how the list is played. Pretty much just how the games went in VERY broad strokes. From what I gather, Reavers sit home on objectives and you take a unit of Ishlaen and Morrsarr with the scryer. Not really sure how you use AoSea or why you would take reavers instead of Thralls though, which I think was what most people are curious about.

Dont think they are in the list of allied factions available, are they? Unless they got moved to a different faction than just Aelfs.

If you can get charges off and kill the unit you charge, to then be able to charge another unit, Morrsarr are definitely miles above Ishlaen. If you get bogged down in combat Ishlaen are better. They both serve different roles. Charging Morrsarr vs Charging Ishlaen, for anyone interested. The damage done is their average damage. And not charging:

The balewind doesnt give you +1 to casting rolls any more, just +1 spells to cast and +6" range on the spells. But he can get a +1 from the Astrolith bearer and he can use his command ability multiple times on himself giving him a large amount of free rerolls, if you want to go full cheese take another Slann for +1 from the constellation. It really isnt hard to pull off a triple cast of celestial deliverance, and you can also get conjuration points from the 2 spells he doesnt cast that round, 3 if you are using cogs as well. Then throw in an Engine for an additional summon. In isolation, you're right, Kroak isnt that bad. But its just like everything else with Seraphon, you start piling on the synergies to increase his effectiveness and thats when things get out of control.

If you have to take a specific artifact just to counter a single list then it is broken. Sure its no big deal if you are doing it down at a club, but going to an event and having to have every army take that one artifact just to counter one list is 100% broken.

Even against non-chaos you are averaging ~45 wounds if you can hit 10 units. 105 wounds is ludicrous but 45 is still enough to cripple an army first turn. Anyone saying its not broken just hasnt used it or played against it imo. Edit: For reference my KO army has 121 wounds, my Idoneth 105 and the Seraphon list I tested this with was at 110, I believe. You're losing 1/3-1/2 your army in a single magic phase, to one model.