Drofnum

Look at the rules for placing your terrain in the Idoneth battletome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD24su2lDl4&t=6113s

You also said wait to turn 2 and use lord of tides. But regardless, it looks like the standard msu eels list. If you're running that I would suggest watching some of Luke mortons games, they were streamed at sheffield slaughter and are a good example of how to play the list.

You cant flip tides and use Supreme Lord of Tides. Both require the unit to be general so you must pick one or the other.

I really liked using 6 Eels and Scryer then 3 eels + shark and Scryer to hit where needed. The sharks are nice for something that wont kill them but also wont be killed in a single round of combat.

You would just get an additional wound roll from it. You wouldnt get 2 x 3 MW's as the additional hit doesnt have a value its simply a hit.

Yeah, my list definitely needs some tweaks as well but figuring out exactly what I want to change up still eludes me. I think taking only 20 company and popping 10 thunderers in the ship is probably the next thing i'll try to see if just flying high everywhere with the ironclad is any good.

Yeah its in the combat phase, but 14 company cutters and the Admirals melee himself do quite a bit. If you're running Company in the Ironclad you're going to be within 9 of the enemy and if you're within 9 you may as well be charging to finish off whatever shooting didnt. You're just going to get charged the next turn anyway and the combat from Ship+Company+Admiral will kill off a lot of things, I burned through an entire unit of Horrors for example which is 50 wounds, I think 6-8 battleshocked off but still. If you're running an Ironclad filled with dudes the Admiral pulls his points pretty easily, he gives you run and charge on the Ironclad which you will want to ensure you get inside of 9 for the Company to shoot. The +1 to hit does quite a bit in combat once you're rolling for everyone in the boat. You can get reroll 1's in shooting which combos well with using Aether Gold to reroll wounds when you need to make sure the Ironclad kills something. The reroll charges is a bit redundant, unless you take the mask artifact. But honestly how many command abilities do you need from a 140 point hero to make him worth taking? I think 3 is plenty, he's also no slouch in combat for his points. If you're dumping the company thats another thing, but honestly I dont see the point in that. Any reasonably decent combat unit is going to take 20 company off the board if they try to, they're quite a bit more useful in a ship where they can bring all their firepower to bear wherever you need it. Edit: My original intention as the same as yours, drop the 20 company on an objective and move the Ironclad on to something else. It just never worked well in my experience, the company was far better in the boat for me.

Its pretty similar to my list a few pages back. You can still fly high with the artifact and the boat fully loaded, so no reason to worry about that, but realistically you wont want to be flying high most of the time. You want to get the Ironclad within 9" to get all the company guns shooting, if you can do that reliably it does quite a lot of damage. I personally think you would want an Admiral to get +1 to hit for everything in the boat, not to mention his other command abilities helping out. Khemist + 20 company on the ground are great for holding objectives and you can actually use his buff that way.

So my setup was basically Ironclad with 20 Company, Admiral and Navigator inside. And depending on need the gunhauler would take the 3 or 6 Rigger with it somewhere, Endrinmaster would go with whichever group I felt needed him. 20 company and Khemist were home objective sitters. First game was against Khorne running Tyrants of Blood with 4 bloodthirsters, 2 whip ones and 2 MW ones playing Battle for the Pass. I deployed quite far back, too far back honestly with my Ironclad and let him have the first turn, we were playing in Ulgu and he tried to port one of his MW bloodthirsters with the realm ability and rolled a 1, killing the thirster. He then pushed everything up a little bit and ended his turn. My turn 1 I flew my Gunhauler and 6 riggers to the right flank and shot off his screen of reavers, and pushed the Ironclad up the middle to try and get the guns in range. The Ironclad killed a Sluaghterpriest with the cannon shot and took a few wounds off one of the thirsters. I had 20 Company on the ground with the Khemist that shuffled up and held my objective. I charged my riggers into combat with the MW thirster and totally forgot they get to fight first so the riggers all died. That ended turn 1 Khorne got priority and sent the MW thirster at my Gunhauler, pushed his other two bloodthirsters into my Ironclad. The MW thirster whiffed pretty hard and ended up only doing 6 wounds to the gunhauler, the other two thirsters attacked the Ironclad but I used my aether gold to reroll saves and it took 6 wounds I think. The return attacks from everything in the boat killed one bloodthirster and wounded the other 3-4 wounds. On my turn the Ironclad and gunhauler both flew high, Ironclad when to the back board edge to grab his objective which only had 10 reavers holding it. Gunhauler jumped to the left side of the board to help finish off the other bloodthirster and grab that objective. My Endrinmaster killed off the bloodthirster with bombs and his ranged attacks. Ironclad killed the reavers in its charge and claimed the back objective and from there it was basically just cleaning up the few stragglers. His MW thirster charged my Ironclad the next turn but didnt do much and just died to the return attacks. Next was Tzeentch in Aqshy, with the rule that terrain blocks LoS(important!) playing blood and glory. The Tzeentch list was an Arcanist Cabal with kairos and the summoner sub-faction. 4 casters, Kairos and 3 units of 10 battleline(acolytes and Tzaangor) I will start by saying I would have easily won this game had I not forgotten about the terrain blocking LoS. I deployed in the corner on my left objective, he deployed strung out along his line with Kairos near the middle of the board. I gave him first turn and he just cast a few spells to get summon points, summoned 10 horrors near my block with his gaunt summoner and summoned a LoC right behind them. On my turn I pushed the Ironclad and gunhauler up to the LoC, but had a piece of terrain between us. Endrinriggers pushed to either side, the 3 + Endrinmaster headed towards Kairos. I killed most of the block of horrors, most of a unit of Acolytes and still managed to put a few wounds into the LoC with some shooting from the 6 riggers. I charged the Ironclad into the LoC and nearly killed it, think it had 3 wounds left. He got turn 2 priority and basically just put a purple sun, Pendulum and Geminids into my Ironclad/gunhauler. Killed off a bunch of the company inside and wounded the Ironclad enough that I couldnt fly high. He charged the Ironclad with 10 Tzaangor, in combat I finished off the LoC and horrors, reroll saves on the Ironclad kept it safe. On my turn I sent the Endrinmaster and Gunhauler at Kairos and pushed my 3 riggers up behind them, Ironclad couldnt really get anywhere and I didnt want to leave my objective exposed so it stayed put, I think it had 6 wounds at this point remaining. Phosphorite bombs and rigger shooting killed Kairos, my 6 riggers killed one of his caster on his home objective, Ironclad killed off everything it was in combat with and then failed the charge to get it away from Pendulum. Turn 3 Pendulum kills the Ironclad but I got priority. I killed off the last hero on his left objective, he only had 10 Tzaangor and a Shaman left but the Shaman was IN terrain meaning I couldnt see it to shoot it. I couldnt get to it in time basically with his 10 man screening and the round ending so it ended in a draw, but he got the mission secondary to win the game. The FEC game was really a non-game, he was playing a Blisterkin list with 2 AGKoT, I gave him first turn where he moved up a bit then I basically just got a double turn and shot him off the board. By the top of turn 2 he only had 10 ghouls and 6 horrors left and I had everything so we just called it and hung out bullshitting til the round ended. All in all the list did quite well, most of the lists I played werent top tier competitive lists though. I do think it could work well against a number of matchups but I definitely need more time playing KO to make sure i'm not doing dumb things. I do want to try a list with more Thunderers in a boat, I just dont have enough to make it work right now but will probably play some proxy games when I get a chance and see how it compares to the Company heavy list.

Double post.

Idk why it's not in there but I took phosphorite bombs on the Endrinmaster. I'll write up the games when I get a chance, I basically just took what I had already painted but company are actually still quite good for their points.

I played a small event this weekend with the list below. Had wins against Khorne and FEC and a draw vs Tzeentch. Still not sure how I would change the list, but it worked pretty well, I generally just flew the boat to the most threatening target and shot it to pieces. I used Fly High far more with the gunship+Riggers than I did on the Ironclad, not really a ton of reason to do it with an Ironclad full of Company since it puts their guns out of range and honestly the Ironclad was only at risk of dying vs Tzeentch due to all the mortals. Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords Aether-Khemist (90) Aetheric Navigator (100) - Artefact: Cyclonic Aethometer Arkanaut Admiral (140) Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (220) - General - Trait: Tough as Old Boots 20 x Arkanaut Company (180) - 2x Skypikes - 2x Light Skyhooks - 2x Aethermatic Volley Guns 20 x Arkanaut Company (180) - 2x Skypikes - 2x Light Skyhooks - 2x Aethermatic Volley Guns 6 x Endrinriggers (200) - 1x Skyhooks - 1x Grapnel Launchers 3 x Endrinriggers (100) - 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns - 1x Drill Launcher 1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150) - Main Gun: Sky Cannon - Great Endrinworks: Breath of Morgrim (Barak-Urbaz) Arkanaut Ironclad (510) - Main Gun: Great Sky Cannon - Great Endrinworks: Ebullient Buoyancy Aid Iron Sky Command (130) Total: 2000 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 1 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 108

From what I have seen it seems like they're trying to fix some Tzeentch issues that cropped up from recent events, so i'm not surprised if its a bit delayed.

Use soulscryers to keep that 340 point unit safe. I've moved to having 2 scryers now, 1 takes 6 Morrsarr the other takes 2 units of 3 or 1 unit of 3 Morrsarr and 2 sharks, I like the 2 sharks with the point changes for hitting things that will survive a 3 eel charge. Bring the scryer on turn 2 or 3 depending on the situation and you really dont have to worry about that unit getting hit and killed before they do their thing. I know some of you have had issues with scryers but I think thats more about just learning when and where to deploy them.

With my list I'm pretty much always going first due to high drops, so I generally use the first turn to set up charges for the next turn. I use Ishlaen to take the charges on the bottom of turn 1, they almost always live until turn 2 due to low tide and ignoring rend. Turn 2 I like to go second if possible to set up for high tide, either way though I try to make sure I charge something that will die for sure to my Morrsarr, I usually bring on whatever I have in the sea turn 2 as well. I dont really cycle charge though, I tend to ensure I can just kill whatever I charge. If I cant kill it I wait til a buffed up Turn 3 to really engage if possible, if that isnt possible I will usually feed them a screen of Ishlaen or Thralls which both do a decent bit of damage if given the chance to hit first. A double turn on turns 2/3 isnt really that big a deal either since high tide will mitigate a lot of your losses.

I have a whole army painted in that theme. The armor is leadbelcher with Coelia greenshade over the top, screamer pink for the cloth, bronze and warplock bronze for various metals.

After using some Shadow Warriors as allies I see no real reason to ever take Reavers. Yeah they can get more shots but SW are cheaper, more consistent at range and just as good in melee.

I would keep the thralls, they do a lot of work for their points so long as you put them up against the right targets. They should tear through units with a 5+ save at 1 wound, or most monsters as well. You just dont want them to get bogged down in a prolonged fight as they usually will drop pretty quick. Great for holding objectives where they wont face a lot of firepower as well.

You dont get cover on the turn you charge. Its the same as any other cover bonus, you always lose cover when you charge until the end of that turn.

The damage averages out the same between the two. So no reason really with the longer range.

Like Kenvs said, just build whichever one you like and play it as both. I've never had anyone know the difference, not even the other Idoneth players. The storm is just a melee fighter, he's pretty decent at it and survivable if you take something to mitigate MW's. If you dont he goes down to them fairly easily but his retreat and charge + heal definitely helps keep him alive, he'll kill most characters with 10 or less wounds and clear out most 20 man battleline type units pretty decently as well. One cool trick with him is to charge a screen or something like that and the next turn retreat over them into the more juicy units. The Sea I personally think is much better than people give him credit for. In my experience people play him as a backline caster with some fighting, I personally use him quite similar to the storm and just push him up the board, if you give him Abyssal Darkness he is basically always on a 2+, and can mystic shield/command point to get 2+ rerolling. Once he is up in the fight the range on his spell matters a lot less and getting -1 to hit on the 2-3 units that are up fighting against you can be massive, I like to pair that with Geminids and you can get -2 to hit on most units or -1 hit -1 attack. Sword of judgement is fun for murdering unsuspecting characters but something like Ignax scales definitely helps keep him alive to deliver his spells.

I'm a fan of the Spellweaver if i'm taking a caster and not using reverse tides. Her spell isnt much use but you at least get an auto dispell which can be crucial depending on your matchups. I would also run Dhom-Hain personally if you're not going reverse tides. You're going to want to be charging and killing units anyway, so you get the reroll 1's to hit more often generally and rerolling all wounds against monsters is great for taking down things like a Keeper of Secrets or Terrogheist etc.

You brought no numbers, you brought another persons opinion. Rob would be the first to admit he is wrong at times. So lets look at numbers, Verminlord Deceiver is 320 points, Eidolon of the Sea is now 380. Against a 4+ save the Verminlord does 8.445 damage, while the Eidolon does 5.467 on average. The Deceiver has a 5+ save against wounds and -2 to hit from shooting, both are 2 cast wizards with similar move/wounds but the Deceiver degrades as he takes wounds and has a 4+ instead of a 3+ save. Eidolon gets to reroll casts(on average this is better than +1 to cast) or heals for D3 but does not degrade as he is wounded, gets cover, wont get shot unless you let him and can fly. Is the Eidolon 60 points better than the Verminlord? I dont think so, but he's really not that far off. I may have missed something on the Verminlord as I dont know Skaven that well but everything from the warscroll is factored in. Edit: Eidolon of the Storm does 10.705 damage, pretty decent beat stick honestly. Just not much else in the way of utility.

I did some math around Morrsarr and Allopex, comparing 170 points of eels to 200 points of sharks is about the closest we can get. Allopex will do around 7.6 damage(with shooting) on average vs a 4+ save, 6.2 dmg without shooting . Morrsarr will do 7.11 if they charge and only 2.8 if they do not charge, also vs a 4+ save. So the Allopex isnt really far off of the eels in terms of damage efficiency, I dont think I would ever take more than 2 in a unit but they could be very nice for MSU and an alternative to eels in some situations. It also make Akhelian Corps much more appealing now that they arent nearly as much of a tax as they were before.