[The Rumour Thread]

Really hoping that is a teaser and not the actual boxart, though I do not have very high hopes.

I really had my heart set on Warhammer Quest being a preview and testing ground of things in the Pipeline.

On the other hands, it would be quite rude to write "Warhammer Quest Shadows over Hammerhal will be an entirely self contained game with a whole new cast of heroes and villains." and then having long established units in the box, including Kairics, who where villains in Silver Tower.

 

Also wondering, if this is about the catacombs beneath a Free City, there should be Skaven, right?

 

Well, at the very least we should get some juicy new Lore about the Free Cities out of this.

[The Rumour Thread]

Even more Stormcast, from an entirely unheard Chamber to boot?

 

Yeah, put me into camp unimpressed with all the others.

Them getting Allegiance stuff is fair enough, but more Stormcast miniatures should be at the absolute bottom of priorities.

[The Rumour Thread]

Yep, these will be bought and go straight to the bitzbox.

 

Beautiful models and a lot of AoS/Fantasy potential, though I really think a lot of people underestimate the amount of science fiction/tech on Eldar equipment, including on these models.

There are armor sealings, bodysuit and synthetic style armor and clothing elements, "unnatural" shapes in the designs, lenses, back modules, etc. that are on all Eldar and no other model. These elements need to be adressed in conversion and I see a lot of conversions using Eldar parts that just do not do this, it has become something of a pet peeve of mine.

 

Compare and contrast the Silver Tower Aelves, who show a lot of skin, including the neck and back, which have scy-fy elements on pretty much every Eldar, as well as very different armor detail and an iconography that shares few to no common elements with the Eldar range, but a few with Warhammer Fantasy Elf ranges (High Elves interestingly). Of particular note I find the strange "shard" body modifications on the Sai, a body modification not seen on any Dark Eldar (a real feat, considering the Dark Eldar range really explored the realm of body modification).

Considering this, I really don't see a moving close of AoS Aelves and 40k Eldar ranges. But what little we have seen from the AoS "original" Aelves and these new Eldar is that each seem to me like their own thing, though clearly based on preexisting lines in their respective universe.

 

There are connecting threads between the newer 40k releases and AoS miniatures, but these are down to outside factors, technical advances and overall design philosophy shifts. For example, from about the release of AoS, the paint jobs of the studio armies have simply become a bit more spectacular in presentation again, I feel, moving to a sort of CGI like look that, I'd note has become rather popular online (particularly on Dakka), before.

Similarly, I think GW has become far more comfortable and experienced with using CAD design for the miniatures, leading to far more dynamicaly posed and rather differently detailed designs most newer releases share.

I think these overall developements lead to an effect of new releases seeming far more "samey" than they objectively are when you compare the miniatures side by side.

 

[The Rumour Thread]

I think scuttlings might be the link to bring together Spiderfang and Moonclan Grots into one coherent Force.

 

They do share a lot, they are both guided by "visionary" shamans, like to use beasts of war they are unhealthily obsessed with and like to abuse hallicogenic substances.

 

I feel like the scuttlings in Silver Tower where an experiment in how far GW could take reimaginations and mergings of beloved factions, after all Nightgoblins where as Iconic to Warhammer Fantasy as Slayers or Chaos Warriors.

 

The extra limbs where not very well received, from what I gather, but I think overall a more even handed merging of the two could be on the table.

 

I think in this context it is interesting that Spiderfang Grots and their "World Web" aspirations have featured quite heavily in the Realmgate books and its contemporaries, while Moonclans have no mention outside the GA:Destruction book I know of.

[The Rumour Thread]

I have been thinking, as awesome as the new Tzeentch stuff is, I am glad I have made a heavy investment in Slaves to Darkness beforehand and will mostly stick to a Chaos Warrior and Beastman army. That this is still possible is great.

 

47 minutes ago, shinros said:

Yeah just finished reading the city of secrets novel you can get the ebook version now and lemme say I loved the warhammer world but I think AOS with time and books like these will surpass it. To me the city feels more "real" in a sense even though there is some high fantasy blended in with the grittiness of the city and novel. 

Oh and I will be updated the lore thread with the general story at some point tomorrow. 

 

I almost ordered it and still might next week when I put in my Tzaangor preorder if more positive testimonials come in.

Anyway, I wanted to thank you for updating non readers on the Lore developements. It is appreciated.

[The Rumour Thread]

4 minutes ago, Phantajisto said:

That new Changeling is sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!

I liked the older much better, but I am not much of a special character fan anyway.

He does look like a great basis for conversions though. I might get one to build a Magus.

[The Rumour Thread]

10 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

It all looks great, and will be my first chaos army eventually, but I'm pretty disappointed that there's not one female model amongst the Acolytes.

I had no reason to expect any but damn!.....

Sure would of been nice to have some breakup in the tide of epic pecs.

Out of EVERY single AoS new model we've had what, 3!? And one was made of bark!!!

I have to say, I found that quite annoying as well, especially given the Akolytes background as shape shifting cultists, one would think there would be female members. Even if the human society of the free cities is throughoutly patriarchal, that would just give women another reason to join a cult, particularly one that promises a change and path to power for everyone.

The only way out on this one for GW is to claim all akolytes change into a masculine "battleform". I will be curious to see if the Battletome makes any mention of something like that or if "all cultists are men" is just taken for granted and assumed to be accepted.

[The Rumour Thread]

1 minute ago, Alexxk said:

I dont know where I have seen it but somewhere was a picture with all the skyfires and tzangor shamans and stuff and there was a tzangor with a standart, so I think the AoS boxes will come with an upgrade sprue!

Have my Tzaangor Sprues right next to me, as I have started assembly in celebration of Tzaanuary starting proper, and the standart is on my sprues. Two standarts in fact, as I got the "arms and command" sprue twice in my box, I am not sure if that is normal.

[The Rumour Thread]

Interestingly, there is no boost for big units on Akolytes and minimum unit size is 10, even though they are sold in boxes of 20.

The Vulcarch is underwhelming, but assuming options stay pointcost free, I won't complain.

Overall, I think Akolytes look quite hard hitting for chaff, with a bit of rend and a shooting attack, but I would not expect a unit of ten to remain standing after anything stronger than a stiff breeze, shields or not. How good they turn out depends entirely on points.

Store groups both Arcanites and Daemons under Disciples now. The warscroll for horrors is still the same, as are all other daemons, I guess, but those may still be awaiting updating.

Regular Tzaangor still are not in the AoS section, so maybe they get reboxed after all or shuffled over when the other Tzaangor hit?

The Magus/Mr. Chickenfeet is still exclusive to that Silver Tower Hero Bundle, that is a bit annoying, since, even though I will convert my own anyway (it is the factions generic mage, after all) I always liked the model and never got one when he was still sold solo.

 

All in all, I can't wait to put in my order, but I actually am a bit afraid that something might be sold out by the time I get to put in my order, since I will propably still be asleep when the shop updates for Germany.

[The Rumour Thread]

1 hour ago, Shadowheart said:

That certainly looks like the Tail pic from the rumour engine, I'm assuming its a 40k thing though, Gyrinx's are used as familiers for Psykers I believe.

Nice catch, I've completely forgotten about them, until you said. They go back all the way to the original Rogue Trader Rulebook, if I remember correctly.

After the Genestealer Cults release, I wouldn't be suprised if it came with an Exodite.

At this rate, Ambulls and Enslavers are up next.

 

Anyway, back to the AoS rumors?

Can't really make much of the Weather Map, I have to admit.

[The Rumour Thread]

One thing I can say about that picture is that it is zoomed in real close, I can not remember any other case of the brushstrokes showing that roughly on GW photography.

Other than that, I'd say it is some sort of Gryph beast, possibly connected to the candy cane rumor engine picture, the blue is very similar.

I can not imagine non-dracoth mounted stormcast or mounted duradin with so much Sigmarite iconography, so, Devoted of Sigmar or Auxiliary Chamber is my bit of speculation.

[The Rumour Thread]

2 hours ago, Malin said:

There are still some Arcanite Heroes to be released: magoster IIRC and one other

The Magister is confirmed to be the old Tzeentch Sorcerer (the chickenfeet one) with a new name by an illustration caption in WD.

The other one (Fateweaver?) really sounds like the old finecast Lord on Disk.

I really hope we get more heroes through the year though, I get envious looking at the veriety available to Bloodbound and Stormcast.

[The Rumour Thread]

4 hours ago, Turragor said:

I don't play a summoning army (yet) but are people really still so beat up about having to pony up points for generating new models and units? Like I see this all the time '<source of free models> is useless because I have to pay for it now>' and I don't get it. There are always upsides to this kind of thing, if there was no benefit at all it wouldn't see any use or wouldn't have a cost.

Just off the top of my head, a unit that splits from Pink > Blue > Brimstone (costed) is like having 3 units on an objective with the footprint of one. Pretty durable. Opponents need to hit them with just the right amount of damage too as anything over the wounds of the pink horrors say doesn't spill onto the new blue unit. Rather the blue models are setup once the damage is resolved (I think, never played these).

The main thing I can see that is valid is the hobby side you mentioned here, you need to buy and paint a lot of models to make this one unit. Ofc they could just sell 5 pink, 10 blue, 10 brimstone as one box?

Speaking for myself personally, I am not beat up about the reserve point rules at all. In fact, I would call myself over all, a fan of the ruling. I think that, apart from many summons being far to likely to fail, the advantages of summoning are well worth any hassle possibly caused.

I think, however, that the reserve point rules in the specific case of horrors splitting, are more trouble than is worth.

First of, blue and brimstone horrors do not come in neat unit sized packages, but dribble in with the attrition of the parent unit. So to start of, we need blue horrors to be prized as pair and brimstones to be prized by base, otherwhise players are overpaying for every split. If they are appropiately prized as stated, then accounting through a game becomes far more in game book keeping than is common to a wargame, particularly such an over all fast and fluid system as AoS. This becomes worse if pink horrors retain the generic demon icon rule of "popping back" lost models, as in that case, depending on the wording, I could end up splitting more models than the original pink horror units size.

Second, the points a Tzeentch player would have to reserve for splitting horror differ from points reserved for summoning units in the important point of entirely depending on the opponents actions to come into play. Simply put, so long as my opponent doesn't attack my horrors, I am not getting my points into play, very much unlike summoning, where as the summoning player I get to influence when I want to use my points. In addition, I only get my points worth of miniatures, when I lose a roughly equivalent miniature.

These factors combine to make a unit of horrors splitting far more alike to a unit of Death battleline, like Sceletons or Crypt Ghouls, regaining numbers through heroes abilities or their standarts, than to any summons, that reserve points where designed for. Those units do not pay for their regained numbers, yet share the lasting quality you so correctly called out as the strong point of splitting horrors.

 

P.s.

Consider this wonkiness of point costed blue and brimstone horrors:

If blue and brimstone horror are costed, I could just add a unit of pink horrors to my army list. In that case, I'd have to pay for any splits.

However, if I select a unit of pink, blue and brimstone horrors each and have all three in melee, but still nearby, all three units are bound to suffer casualties, as the opponent is bound to have models in combat that can only attack one of the units. Now, as by the current rules, split of blues and brimstones are added to nearby units, I get my split of horrors for free or have to pay for them, depending entirely on the timing of my opponents attacks! If my opponent attacks the pink horrors first, all splits would bring the nearby blues above original numbers, making me pay. But if, for any reason, the blues are attacked first, they take casualties that are then replenished by slain pink horrors, making the split of blues free.

Horrors are meant to represent the madness of Tzeentch, but I hope they aren't meant to inflict it uppon the players.

[The Rumour Thread]

9 minutes ago, Malin said:

So we wait for blue and brimstone horrors

I am so curious how this will turn out. Depending on the wording and costing of the splitting rule, if the cost of blues and brimstones is included in the cost of pink horrors, one could need 20 blue horrors and 20 brimstone horror bases to field 10 pink horrors, which is a lot of models (as well as money and painting) for a single small battleline unit.

On the other hand, if brimstone and blue horror units are costed, the splitting becomes hardly worth the trouble in matched play.

One thing I could imagine would be wounds taken by pink horrors being automatically transferable to nearby blue horror units (and wounds taken by blues to brimstones). I that case, players would only need a small amount of blues and brimstones for every pink unit, as very few of these would be on the table at any point.

Another possible system would be for splitting to only replenishing nearby units of blues and brimstones, which you buy and field like any old unit. Though that would make for some strange tactical interactions (if you kill of the different horror units one after another, you could prevent any splitting).

[The Rumour Thread]

I was convinced I wouldn't need a LoC for some time, but they absolutely nailed it  with that designed. Holding out might have gotten quite a bit harder.

I'm glad to see there is more in store for Tzeentch than we've seen so far, I did not feel much of the spirit of Tzaanjuary so far.

[The Rumour Thread]

8 hours ago, xking said:

Who said the rumour engine image was from  Grungi's  faction? people just assumed that.

Just to be clear, I was less answering your proposition that the picture shows an Ironweld model and more your statement that "Steamhead" was the prototype name for "Ironweld".

[The Rumour Thread]

1 hour ago, xking said:

 

It's most likely going to be the "ironweld arsenal". Not "steamhead duardin" as that was more of a prototype name for the ironweld, just like when the Fyreslayers prototype name was the redslayers.

I am certainly not sure new Duradin will actually be called "Steamheads", but I am quite sure they wouldn't be Ironweld, which is:

a) a faction from Azyr

and

b) a mixed human and Duradin faction

 

Every god so far had at least one faction entirely in their service, I bet Grungi is no exception.

[The Rumour Thread]

The painting style of that harpoon says Duradin to me. I'm calling Duradin Ahab, you heard it here first folks.

15 minutes ago, meet.the.doctor said:

I am confused... "The steamhead duardin" is the official name or another invented "nigmos"...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is from official material, the original Age of Sigmar booklet, to be precise. Mind, that is also one that still called Fyreslayers the Red Slayers, so it might be more of a working title.

[The Rumour Thread]

2 hours ago, Dez said:

Tzcheschire Cat?

I can't tell you how sad I was you beat me to that pun.

 

Whatever that is, at first glance, it doesn't look like anything but something Tzeentch. It also doesn't look like anything Tzeentch we know or expect to come.

At second glance, it looks quite a bit like a Gryphhounds tail. Except Tzeentchy blue, with jewelry that looks more Chaos and two tips.

It is quite confounding, really.

 

Of course, I'd be enthused if an actual Cheshire Cat was added for Tzeentch, particularly if we get some way for the Jabberslythe to gain Tzeentch allegiance. I dare say, it would feel like Wonderland.

[101 Ways to form Narrative Play Forces.]

Ok, obviously, I did not find the time for "a bigger post" a day after my last, but I've finally found some space to dig this thread up and some more ideas.

The plan here is to continue collecting ideas and eventually compiling a full list, with full credits to every contributor, of course. Hopefully the Mods do not mind the occassional thread-necromancy in the course of what I see as a long term project.

 

Anyway, here are some more ideas:

 

Counting Wounds. This System seems to have been relatively widespread in the early days before the GHB. You just agree on a total number of wounds for each side.

Pro:

It is fast and easy.

You have a small amount of balance and accountability

Con:

It heavily favors more elite units, that are more efficient and/or have better saves. For example five Liberators or Chaos Warrior are simply superior to ten Marauders or Grots.

 

Make your own point system. This one is quite involved and requires a stable and very cooperative Gaming Group. Starting with matched play points, regularly talk things through with each other and amend the point list according to your experiences and playstyle.

Pro:

All the advantages one could see in points, but the possibility to slowly work the downsides out of the system.

Can be tailored very much to shared preferences.

Con:

A lot of work.

Requires a high degree of cooperation and agreement between the involved players. Otherwhise, there is a very high conflict potential.

As said, it requires a very stable gaming group.

 

The Turnaround. One player determines the battleplan, who takes which role in the battleplan, the story to be played and possibly already sets up the board. The second player makes a list of the army he thinks appropiate for the stated conditions. Then the first puts together his army.

Pro:

It includes choice of Battleplan in the balancing.

A very high degree of narrative tailoring to scenario possible.

Con:

It is very easy for the first player to take advantage, if so inclined.

 

According to the Good Book. Players do not build their own lists, but play a battleplan that includes premade army lists. Alternatively, a battleplan is played that is connected to a story and players try to mirror the forces in the story to the best of their ability.

Pro:

The Forces very closely match an existing narrative

Con

There are very few battleplans including clear army lists.

Stated forces may not match the collections of the players.

Very little room to create your own narrative/story.

[The Rumour Thread]

2 hours ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

When Rob and Eddie were dicussimg the Tzeentch release they definitely talked about how the Narrative had moved on from the Realm Gate wars and that the Seeds of Hope cities from the Seasonof War were established cities now. Cities that Tzeentch had formed cults in an Enemy within fashion. Sound to me like the Mortal Realms will be getting some civilisation. 

Oh and no squats they were pants the first time round ?

One really has to wonder about the timescale AoS moves at.

From some of the developements, especially the establishment of major cities and their impressive descriptions, it must be at the very least over a decade from the start of the Realmgate Wars to the end of Seasons of War, if not much longer.

It would be nice to get a rough accounting of the time past, it might have well been a mortal lifespan in the realms since the release of AoS.

[The Rumour Thread]

2 minutes ago, Darth Alec said:

 

Certainly possible! I'm not sure GW wants to quite go there yet though. And if they did, I'd imagine the Skaven or Archaon getting the first honours, not random tzeench dude nr 48. But hey, predicting GW plotlines is about as reliable as a horoscope!

 

At the very least, it's not some ruined place of power.

I actually thought GW would breach Azyr much later, but with GW hinting how tZeentch has been silently spreading his Cults and that picture, I'd say it is certainly possible the picture depicts a Sigmarite Bastion if not Azyr itself.

[The Rumour Thread]

1 hour ago, Darth Alec said:

Also possibly worth noting: that place does not look nearly as ruined as most art depicts. Possible refounded city being fought over?

 

Nice to know that building Ironbreakers won't be a waste of time, at least!

With that huge and grandious statue of Sigmar on his Throne, might it be Azyr?

[The Rumour Thread]

2 hours ago, ElectricPaladin said:

What's good about this is not that all Battletomes will be in this new format, but that this is now an option where it's appropriate.

What I think would be interesting and engaging, is a slightly different system of allegiance for each Grand Alliance.

The "Disciples of Tzeentch" approach is excellent, for the Monogod "powerblocks" of factions. A simmilar battletome for Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh and Skaven/Great Horned Rat could cover most of the GA, while leaving room inside the "powerblocks" for smaller monofaction battletomes (like Clans Eshin after Skaven).

The other GA's don't have those "powerblocks", but could find a different ways to link up factions into one army.

So Order could be set up around factions like Sylvaneth, that are basically self-contained Forces, but give a system to make them work well as cooperative Forces, as they are the truest "Alliance" in the Mortal Realms.

Death on the other hand could have a hierarchic allegiance system. You'd have "bottom rank" factions, like Deathrattle, Deathwalkers, Flesheaters and maybe Nighthaunt, equipped with "old style" battletomes and perfectly playable in their own right. But If you take a "master rank" faction, like Deathmages, Soulblight, maybe Nighthaunt, their battletome could allow you to "subjugate" the "bottom rank" into your allegiance (with some limitations, so pure "bottom" armies aren't shafted. At the Top, Deathlords would be able to subjugate all other Death factions, including Masters.

I'm not to attatched to the specific, but some difference in how allegiances are set up and archieved between different GAs would be very characterful and neat, I think.

[The Rumour Thread]

So, to summarize my collections from the tidbits released about the Disciples of Tzeentch release:

-Looks like the Tzaangor Shaman is the only new Character. Though the Path to Glory table calls out two previously unknown characters in the Arcanites section, the Magister and the Fatemaster, those are propably renames/reinterpretations of the Tzeentch Sorcerer Lord and the Lord of Tzeentch on Disk, who are notably absent from the table.

-Akolytes come with magical gubbins "special weapons". We have learned that "I cast bird" attacks mages. It was said there would be others, propably Mr. "I hold a scroll".

-Two types of Tzaangor on Disk of Tzeentch. Skyfires look like extremely nasty archers, Enlightened poke people from above with polearms. Likelyhood of them being a dual kit: 99.99%

-Still no word on blue horrors, brimstone horrors and LoC, though everyone expects them.

-Also, still no word on these guys:

Note the particularly impressive horns and flame, these certainly aren't regular Tzaangor. They also quite big. There are parallels to the enlightened, especially the polearms. However, I don't really see that kit as a tripple kit. I also think these ones are a bit bigger and overall fancier, though, admittedly, it is hard to make out. The path to glory table makes no mention of any further Tzaangor/Arcanites units, though that also isn't the complete list.

The release will then be:

-Battletome:Disciples of Tzeentch

-Tzaangor Shaman

-Kairic Akolytes with Gubbins. Propably ten to a box.

-Skyfires/Enlightened on Disk dual kit. Three to a box.

-The well known Tzaangor in a different Cardboard box, possibly without wh40k extra sprues, maybe even down a few coins in prize (a man can dream).

-Maybe a third box Monstrous Tzaangor or maybe Enlightened can be fielded on foot.

-Demons sometime later. If in January/February, then we will se them in the book. If the book does only contain pictures of Silver Tower Blues/Brimstone and the old LoC, they will come much later.

-Release in January. 40k Fall of Cadia propably comes first, so I'd expect this around mid-month.

-For those who wanted Tzeentch specific Warrior/Knight types, we are left to speculate/hope for a further Tzeentch release wave later into the year, but for now and possibly the forseeable future, we have to look to Slaves to Darkness for that.