EchoHavoc
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Posts posted by EchoHavoc
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It struggles more due to lack of speed and when there’s more than 4 objectives.
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5 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:
Thank you. Won't this list really struggle in battleplans where heroes are needed to control objectives?
I’ve not found it that bad. Use the crawlers to pick off enemy heroes. Kata is very hard to kill. Plus mortek with harvester support just do there thing.
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2 hours ago, Aeryenn said:
Can somebody please post that typical tournament list with Katakros, two crawlers and morteks you speak of?
Something like this
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24 minutes ago, Enoby said:
Thanks for you write up
I think you bring up some really good points - our army is designed very strangely compared to others. Like you mentioned we don't have combos or big deathstars we can always rely on.
In one way, I think this leads to the army feeling more satisfying. It feels as if we can use the full extent of our toolkit and play the game on the level of the battlefield rather than on the level of the list. That's not to say combo armies are brainless (definitely not), but when I've played for combos the gameplay often feels quite samey - position deathstar combo piece, buff the deathstar combo piece, and then use it as the buff suggests. It's fine but it can force your hands in lists with needing certain support pieces and the best unit to buff. Slaanesh on the other hand feels as if you have to play the game kind of more like chess - trading pieces and forcing poor plays while you move into the correct places. A lot of people don't like this because, as you said, you have to be thinking about your plays all the time because on ****** up and it's all over - this is stressful and sometimes people just want to buff something to crazy heights and let it rip. I think it's also why some people think the army is bad, because it is when you play it like another army.
I do think some parts of the book may be hidden gems (I still stand by twinsouls
) but I think the Seeker Cavalcade and Glutos are the key players in a competitive scene. But also as you've said, the issue for most of the other units is their pointe costs. It's why I see this current lack of variety as not as bad as what you can see in other armies; Seeker Cavalcade is good, but not the answer to everything, and other parts of the book hold that answer and just need a bit of a points decrease.
Just curious, where did you place in the tournament?
a lot of people have placed highly but it feels like the consensus in some communities is still that we're weak and BoC tier; to be honest, that outlook frustrates me a lot because it feels like some people want the book to be bad so they can complain more.
Yeah, I think a 20 points decrease would help them find their space a lot. To be honest, that describes most of our unused units (sans Slaangors) - I think most units have their place but maybe not their price. If everything comes down a little bit I think Slaanesh lists will be very varied.
You are welcome! Just wanted to give me 2 cents as it were 😊
Having played Fyreslayers since they came out, Slaanesh is defiantly a change of pace. It does seem a strange design compared with most armies. Which did confuse me at first.
I think I have played around 20-25 games with the new book and it has taken me till now to get used to it. However, even now I find myself making simple mistakes which I wouldn’t with another book. As like you said I am (like many others) used to my deathstar of (in my case) HGB running around (albeit slowly) killing everything they touch and not dying for the whole game. Whereas with Slaanesh you must be careful with everything.
I have a friend who plays Skaven and has done since the start of Age of Sigmar and this army always reminds me of him and his hype concentrated face. He gets so worked up at events as he focuses so much on every single movement. Slaanesh reminds me of that. Every move counts and like you said, its like chess working out the best trades and taking the key pieces while waiting to strike.
Twinsouls I’m not completely sold on yet. I have 10 of them and just haven’t found there use yet. Glutos is an absolute boss and has performed very well in all my games so far. Hes pretty much an auto include for me.
I agree with a point decrease I can see other things in our book getting use. However, as things stand my list is pretty much set, unless something changes.
I can see why people think the book is bad. I don’t think its bad, I do however, think that the average player picking up the book might struggle to see its full power as those combos don’t just jump out. When I first looked through it I almost felt like each unit was an individual and not part of the book as a whole because I couldn’t see the combos and tricks. However, as I went over it more and played with the army I do feel like there is real strength.
So, it was a 6 player tournament (outside as our rules allow, we pitched a gazebo in a field was actually really fun!) I came 2nd in the first tournament we played. Then 4th in the second tournament we played. I really dislike army tiers and brackets etc. However, if I had to rate Slaanesh as it stands now. I think we are somewhere in the A tier.
I still feel like the main problem with this book is that Slaanesh are still paying for the mistake of the first book and GW didn’t want a repeat performance.
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6 minutes ago, EchoHavoc said:
So I imagine by now my experience with the new book is very similar to everyone else’s. Over the Easter weekend I played in a mini tournament with some friends. I played against LRL, DoK, Seraphon and OBR. All playing very completive versions of these armies.
So my take aways, I think the Slaanesh book is actually pretty decent. However, due to points I feel its almost unplayable unless you go Seeker conclave (which I always do).
I feel like our book is lacking major combos which other books can create. The obvious one is the KoS double pile in. However, I find that my KoS itself is very swingy as is Sigvald. Blissbarb archers, to me seem to be the unsung heroes of this book. They generate depravity points like crazy. Both on foot and the seeker version just cause so much havoc. However, the foot versions are so overcoated they aren’t worth taking in more than one unit of 11. When I first saw the models I wanted to take like 33 of them. However, I saw the points and knew that was never going to happen ☹
I am consistently generating 8-12 DP by turn 2/3. Which is a really good number in the games I’ve played.
I also feel the book suffers from very poor saves and there aren’t many ways to boost them. While I have won games versus LRL, DoK, KO and Seraphon I have been tabled or near tabled in all of them. I feel like for competitive games (which is what I mostly play) there is a real lack of variety in this book. The models are glorious but half of them, in their current state will not seen any time on the table. Unless playing a causal game with friends.
I also think in a meta where shooting and magic are some of the most powerful tools we are severely lacking in both defence and offence in these areas. As I said above I feel like blissbarb archers are very good. However, they don’t put out anywhere near enough damage to warrant their cost. Plus they die to a stiff breeze. In fact, I’d say this is very true for a lot of our army. Even Slickblade seekers which most people would agree are our most effective unit right now don’t output as much damage as they should for the cost. Given they also have a 5+ save and there’s not a whole lot of ways we can boost that. I understand that Slaanesh are more of a glass cannon, however, I just feel at the current points there’s not enough cannon. I also find our magic offense and defence lacking somewhat.
Right I know that all sounds like a rant/negative etc. However, I don’t think it would require much work for us to become a real powerhouse in the game while not being overpowered. A slight reduction here and there, 10-20 points off certain units and we’d be in a great spot.
I do find this army very rewarding when played well. However, it has a huge learning curve about it and requires you to focus 100% of the time. If you miss something or incorrect measure the opponent can make you pay for it. Playing this army require a great deal of finesse and its not going to smash through armies. You need to pick your battles and wait for the right moment to strike. That’s why the seeker conclave is so effective.
Cavalcade***
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So I imagine by now my experience with the new book is very similar to everyone else’s. Over the Easter weekend I played in a mini tournament with some friends. I played against LRL, DoK, Seraphon and OBR. All playing very completive versions of these armies.
So my take aways, I think the Slaanesh book is actually pretty decent. However, due to points I feel its almost unplayable unless you go Seeker conclave (which I always do).
I feel like our book is lacking major combos which other books can create. The obvious one is the KoS double pile in. However, I find that my KoS itself is very swingy as is Sigvald. Blissbarb archers, to me seem to be the unsung heroes of this book. They generate depravity points like crazy. Both on foot and the seeker version just cause so much havoc. However, the foot versions are so overcoated they aren’t worth taking in more than one unit of 11. When I first saw the models I wanted to take like 33 of them. However, I saw the points and knew that was never going to happen ☹
I am consistently generating 8-12 DP by turn 2/3. Which is a really good number in the games I’ve played.
I also feel the book suffers from very poor saves and there aren’t many ways to boost them. While I have won games versus LRL, DoK, KO and Seraphon I have been tabled or near tabled in all of them. I feel like for competitive games (which is what I mostly play) there is a real lack of variety in this book. The models are glorious but half of them, in their current state will not seen any time on the table. Unless playing a causal game with friends.
I also think in a meta where shooting and magic are some of the most powerful tools we are severely lacking in both defence and offence in these areas. As I said above I feel like blissbarb archers are very good. However, they don’t put out anywhere near enough damage to warrant their cost. Plus they die to a stiff breeze. In fact, I’d say this is very true for a lot of our army. Even Slickblade seekers which most people would agree are our most effective unit right now don’t output as much damage as they should for the cost. Given they also have a 5+ save and there’s not a whole lot of ways we can boost that. I understand that Slaanesh are more of a glass cannon, however, I just feel at the current points there’s not enough cannon. I also find our magic offense and defence lacking somewhat.
Right I know that all sounds like a rant/negative etc. However, I don’t think it would require much work for us to become a real powerhouse in the game while not being overpowered. A slight reduction here and there, 10-20 points off certain units and we’d be in a great spot.
I do find this army very rewarding when played well. However, it has a huge learning curve about it and requires you to focus 100% of the time. If you miss something or incorrect measure the opponent can make you pay for it. Playing this army require a great deal of finesse and its not going to smash through armies. You need to pick your battles and wait for the right moment to strike. That’s why the seeker conclave is so effective.
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@Enoby What is the most competitive/viable/all comers Slaanesh list you have found? I have been toying around loads with lists and cant come up with something competitive while being an all comers list.
I do think overall the book is actually quite well balanced. I have played some games (around 10-12 on TTS nothing in person unfortunately due to lockdown) with the new book and find it okay. I think we are still paying for the sins of the first book and GW defiantly wanted to keep our summoning in check and have the book be less focused on heroes. But we are by no means in a terrible, terrible place. At least that's my opinion anyway. I do also think this book rewards good players as there is a more nuanced approach to it rather than just running head first into an opponent and trying to steam role the game with insane summoning. Having said all that, we are going to suffer massively against some armies and I do think we need a points adjustment to make us properly competitive again.
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31 minutes ago, Doko said:
For example i can say that the warmachine is better than the stormcast ballista and cost 100 only
So I've read over all the new rules, as have my whole gaming group. We are very how shall we say it, 'impressed' by the rules. However, we don't think its completely broken.
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23 minutes ago, Doko said:
I said lumineths in global,we dont know even the rules of the new units(i know it because i have seen the new warscrolls allready but i wont post them)
Yeah those rules are looking kinda spicy for sure
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37 minutes ago, Doko said:
I really hope that the last tomes arent the balance that we can hope for 3.0
Dok with teleporting archers snakes shotting twices and doing 50 mortals?
Lumineths with rules that ignore every penalty of the game,game rules or deny every enemy rule?
I prefer olds times with simple warscrolls and rules because it had less potential of happen things as lumineths
I believe that DoK was not meant as a 3.0 book. It was delayed massively due to Covid and Brexit. From what I've heard the Slaanesh book was designed for 3.0. Which would make sense given the points increases, which I think are in line with the board size changing to smaller size. Same thing happened in 40k, they changed the board size and upped the points to compensate.
Lumineth realm lords, I have no idea what's going on there. Unless they are pointed correctly they will mix up the meta quite a lot.
One of the things that drew me to this game was that it was simple to grasp, with a small rulebook and decent entry level but also has a high ceiling, where a good player can do wonders and there's lots you can do with it. I hope they don't go to overboard with sweeping changes to over complicate the game. Or add too much stuff to it. I feel 40k is way too complicated with all the rules and books etc. I wouldn't want AoS going the same way.
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Also, as an aside about fun and NPE. While I agree in some aspects, the game is going the wrong way with this (NPE I mean, I still think the game is fun as hell). I would like to say, having been part of both the 40k and AoS competitive scene. I can say the AoS scene is much, much more fun and a far better place to play competitive Warhammer. People are in my experience nicer, less sweaty (people who play the game seriously or someone who takes a game too seriously when it's not warranted) and wanting to have fun. I’ve rocked up to tables in AoS where the chance of me winning is very slim or been tabled in two turns but had a blast doing it. In 40k if I get outright destroyed its normally a ‘gotcha moment’ or the opponent has wanted to win at all costs. Anyway, to me AoS, while not perfect by any stretch is in a better place than its ever been and once a few issues have been ironed out I think it’ll be one of the best tabletop games out there.
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So, I think GW are waiting for AoS 3 before they make any major changes to the game. In most instances they ramp things up like this just before a major update or release take for example the Slaanesh battletome, the points costs there seem much higher than that of the DoK book. I believe this was because the Slaanesh battletome was intended for 3.0 where as the DoK book wasn’t.
Also let’s not forget the Generals Handbook will be released anytime between June and August. That will sort of a lot of the points issues (lets hope anyways). Everyone knows Seraphon are broken. However, I think GW understand we haven’t had any real tournaments for over a year now (talking specially about U.K tournaments). So maybe they are waiting till the next updates to address these issues.
The things that I believe they need to work on are the double turn mechanic, this is like marmite, love it or hate it. Personally, I hate it. This is for two reasons, firstly I don’t like the fact that if I get doubled, I have to wait another turn before I get to use my toys. Then the other reason is because the game at its current level has so much damage, I can literally lose all my key units in two turns. Getting doubled my KO for example can potentially be game ending. Its very hard to balance shooting without just completely tanking armies like KO in there current state. GW would need to give them more melee tools to compensate for any such nerf.
The other thing I dislike is the way first turn is decided. I like the mechanic in 40k where if you win the roll off you HAVE to go first. Makes games more interesting I feel. However, with the double turn mechanic I doubt this would work in AoS. They need to, in my opinion find another way to balance who gets the first turn.
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I am selling my nicely painted Fateweaver/Lord of change.
This model looks even better in real life. Please see all the photos I am looking for around £200 for this model but am open to offers.
It is listed on eBay here
I am UK based but will post internationally at an extra charge.
Any questions please don’t hesitate to ask
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Selling my nicely painted Fyreslayers army! I am looking for around £600 but am open to offers. It is listed on eBay here
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Age-of-Sigmar-Army-Fyreslayers/283962634227?hash=item421d7deff3:g:goUAAOSwz-FfIW1Y
Full description and photos can be found below.
I am UK based but will send internationally for an additional cost
Any questions please done hesitate to ask :)
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On 6/13/2019 at 5:25 PM, minthras said:
My dear that its what they said in their last live,dont be angry on me ^^ take it easy..i really really hope will be as you say
Anyway the list was wrong ,cant use arcanite cabal just using magister and tzaangor shaman,need fatemaster too soz.. here the new one:
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160)
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
- General
Magister (140)
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
Battleline
20 x Kairic Acolytes (160)
- 10x Pair of Cursed Blades
- 7x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield
- 3x Cursed Glaives
20 x Kairic Acolytes (160)
- 10x Pair of Cursed Blades
- 7x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield
- 3x Cursed Glaives
20 x Kairic Acolytes (160)
- 10x Pair of Cursed Blades
- 7x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield
- 3x Cursed Glaives
20 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (400)
Units
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (280)
Battalions
Witchfyre coven (120)
Endless Spells / Terrain
Soulsnare Shackles (20)So you were saying... https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/06/14/the-generals-handbook-2019-major-points-changesgw-homepage-post-2/
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6 hours ago, minthras said:
If you mean the gh 2019 i dont think will change nothing about the situacion for DoT,if you mean the release of new battletome,GW already said they will not release new battletome for this year so waiting until 2020 for start an army its pretty ridicolous for me ^^ 2 Curseling cuz 2 more casters and well the thing i can cast in the enemy turn its good,yeah agree with the idea of pyro cult the problem is need to pay a lot for take it 140+120+180 otherwise i can try like this:
Allegiance: Chaos
Leaders
Magister (140)
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160)
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
Battleline
20 x Kairic Acolytes (160)
20 x Kairic Acolytes (160)
20 x Kairic Acolytes (160)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
Units
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened (200)
Battalions
Witchfyre Coven (120)
Arcanite Cabal (180)
The Pyrofane Cult (140)
Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 109
You're joking right? Tzeentch will 100% change in the handbook.
As an example enlightened are definitely going to change. Skyfires will most likely be changed as well. Id also be surprised if horrors don't get changed. That's just a few examples but more will change for sure.
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In my experience I'd say Fyreslayers, nurgle and Stormcast are pretty darn resilient.
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2 hours ago, schwabbele said:
As a SCE main player - do not buy them until GHB 19 is out!!
Whatever army he starts it'll be after the GHB
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4 minutes ago, mikethefish said:
Despite my 👂 reservations, of all the weird quasi-fringe GHB factions, I would say Free Peoples is right up there for being reasonably likely to get a Tome. But...
We don't know if they will
If they do get a Tome, we don't know what that will look like - perhaps their whole army play style changes, or perhaps they get lumped up into some of the other factions. Anything could happen
I don't know if would recommend Free People (or any other GHB army) for beginning players - even if they are not new to the hobby in general. Players could be spending lots of money in things that either won't be good in the future, or would end up being phased out of the army somehow.
To be honest I think I completely agree with you. My friend was actually pretty keen on free people's. However, after reading all this.
I think Stormcast might be the safer option.
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OK guys. Back on track here. My friend doesn't mind if they get a new book in the near future. However, he doesn't want to invest in an army that won't be supported in a year or two.
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1 hour ago, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said:
Free Peoples hold the line like no one else; not because they're just tanky, but because they can thin your ranks before the combat phase even begins. Right now they are basically better Dispossessed due to access to cavalry and Collegiate Arcane. They are also 99% likely to get a battletome in the not too distant future.
If he's coming from 40k, I'd argue that Stormcast fit the bill better as they operate much like Space Marines. Free Peoples are more nuanced and difficult to play, but have distinct advantages; they aren't the equivalent to Imperial Guard though. They're my main army, and I find them very rewarding to play. However, large units of infantry are difficult to manage, so if he doesn't want to faff around moving dudes then Stormcast is probably the better pick, with access to greater flexibility; if you're in Free Peoples you're stuck there, but Stormcast can mix and match.
In my experience, Free Peoples can contend with most other armies and participate in all phases of the game (provided you have Collegiate Arcane). Now they might not be the strongest, but they definitely go down fighting to the last. They also often win the long game. They also have room to play aggressive, which nearly always catches my opponents off guard; they have cavalry for the enemy objectives, and suddenly breaking formation and charging a midfield unit can send opponents into disarray as they were expecting to come to you, so now their battleplan is triggered one or two turns early. With some good positioning you can even keep your ranged troops ready to overwatch with full bonuses. Greatswords are a good example of units that can suddenly break formation and rush an unsuspecting unit, because they can and will blend anything they touch when buffed to 2+ 2+.Their weakness is to mortal wounds (and to generate mortal wounds), so a wise player always brings a Luminark. Luminarks provide a 6+ shrug save and a +1 unbind so they provide adequate protection against magic. You also get about 2 laser shots off per game, which can cripple a monster before it can act (shot a colossal Squig turn one and it flopped into my Griffon to die). Warp Lightning Cannons will be annoying as they can kill foot generals easily, but there's ways around that; like the aforementioned doom laser. Also handgunner snipers are good for this. I would not recommend anything from Ironweld though.
Edit: we also have the most efficient flying battletank in the game.
Thank you so much for this write up. I have shown my friend and he is interested to know more.
I'm 40k he play nids so he is used to a high model count.
What would a typical free people's list look like?
He is a little concerned by the lack of a battletome. I agree with you that they should get a tome in the future. Just not sure when.
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1 minute ago, StapMyVitals said:
Freeguild/Free People have a lot of bonuses based on staying where they are, effects that trigger when they get charged, the numbers to take a mortal wound or two without crying, and several ways of mitigating battleshock. They're made as a defensive line. Even as a non-battletome army, they have representation in tournaments.
Never even considered these guys. I'll get him to take a look.
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So both Stormcast and Fyreslayers were my top 2 choices. However, I have zero experience with either army so can't really offer advice.
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3 minutes ago, peasant said:
Slaanesh can be very defensive indeed!
I'll need to do more research here, as my club mate just runs them purely offensively. If they fill both roles maybe this would be a good army for him.
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) but I think the Seeker Cavalcade and Glutos are the key players in a competitive scene. But also as you've said, the issue for most of the other units is their pointe costs. It's why I see this current lack of variety as not as bad as what you can see in other armies; Seeker Cavalcade is good, but not the answer to everything, and other parts of the book hold that answer and just need a bit of a points decrease.
New dwarf army soon? Mixed dwarfs
in Order
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I completely agree with you and as a Fyreslayer player this sucks. However, all I will say is that Elves in all there flavours are some of the most successful ranges GW do. Whereas Dwarfs are some of the least popular. So yeah I would expect elves to get special treatment while we are left out in the cold. As much as this sucks. I think KO will get an extended range as of all the dwarf factions they seem the most popular and I think will be well supported in the future. I hope I’m wrong and we get loads of stuff over the years just not holding my breath.