Kugane
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Posts posted by Kugane
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5 hours ago, wanderingrogue said:
hey. I'm the guy that was on stream with deepkin last game at bobo.
just say but the thralls are super strong,especially in a meta where shooting is dropping off and with a turn 2 high tide.
That is great to hear!
How did it go? Did you manage to get any king buffs off? What kind of list did you play?^^
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1 minute ago, Reuben Parker said:
I think it still works as it mentions it has to be the closest visible enemy unit I don’t think it matters if closest unit isn’t IDK. Obviously doesn’t work the other way your Allies can always be targeted.
I also think some heartrenders can be useful as 80 points can sometimes left over and a flexible objective grabber.
I see :o, that is interresting, perhaps it is time to build some eternal guards I've been putting in storage for ages haha.
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18 minutes ago, Drofnum said:
I think for pure screening you would be better off just allying in some eternal guard. Same survivability as Thralls for half the points.
I think forgotten nightmares wont trigger with normal eternal guard, so the enemy can still shoot at whatever they are trying to screen. So not sure if that would work into our favour.
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15 minutes ago, Unter said:
I saw bits and pieces on stream.
It really isn't about how you line up a thrall charge, or whatever, you just have the thralls, and if people are targetting them they aren't targetting your eels.
Both lists I think played 15-18 Morsarr, to give you some context.
In that environment targetting the Thralls isn't a great idea.
To clarify, I think any strategy depending on Thralls to win the game will NOT work. But as a filler unit, used to control the board and objectives, they pack a good punch.I see! Nice to hear :). I generally use some thralls as bubble wrap for my leaders since shield eels leave quite a bit of gaps. Wish they could get into combat more often though =P
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17 minutes ago, Gildaheir said:
Hey folks, I'm interested in Idoneth, but I'm a bit tentative. My chief opposition would be Tzeentch demons/tzaangors and Nighthaunts/Death. We don't play hyper-competitive lists by any means, but we also don't intentionally cripple ourselves. Does Idoneth match up well with those? I'm trying to figure out what I'd like to play in AoS, and I'm struggling. I heard some whisperings that Beastmen might be on the horizon and am debating holding off until I know for sure if they are/aren't coming down the pipeline.
Some of my concern about Idoneth is I love the big models (Leviadon, Alloplexes, Aspects) and it sounds like they kinda stink? Also, do Idoneth play like Sylvaneth? That's who I had before, and I wound up hating their playstyle (mostly how damned slow they were and their relative weakness to ranged/mortal wounds). So, I'd like something that plays different.
The leviadon is quite good and you can generally fit in an allopex if needed. The aspects are not as good as other options, but considering how fragile the spear is, that is probably for the best. Miniatures that break easy are no fun to carry arouns after all
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21 minutes ago, Rogue Sun said:
You could put a more durable target in front of them. Can only target the closest unit with shooting.
It is sometimes hard to pull off with stuff such as deepstriking stormcast eternals shooting from sides or behind, but I guess a unit of shield eels could do the trick. (I am yet to build mine, mostly used the turtle to hide models).
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2 minutes ago, DanielFM said:
Did you take into account the extra killed model if Battleshock is failed? I assume you didn't, because it's not usually included into calculations.
Raw damage, Evos on foot win. But Evos on Dracoline can start on the table, charge turn one (with a run+charge and run buff) reliably and with an Empower thrown on themselves. To do the same, Evocators need Scions, Gavriel "I'm on every single list" Sureheart (+ Hammers tax) and they won't have any buff on them. So I think a fair comparison would have Evos on Dracolines rerolling wounds while Evos on foot don't. It's a self-contained buff, it doesn't get the "but more points!" excuse
On a slightly different note, they Will be 45€ for 3. Is it me or it feels like a steal?(in the good sense!)
The extra lost model is all nice and fun, but you are looking at 1 model or so, which is 1 to 2 wounds. Which if included into the calculation is only anothet 0.33 to 0.66 damage, still underwhelming in my opinion. Even if so, regular evocators kill more, so the opponent would lose more models because of that as well, so that argumentation is flawed at best.
Also I did mention they can start on the table and get where they need to be quickly.
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8 minutes ago, ledha said:
I think we need to take into account the charge bonus of the dracoline, as well as all the possible buffs they can have. A lord arcanum on dracoline with the good mount trait give them 4 attacks 2+/3+/-1/D3 in charge for example
I think the trade off is too much and even with the extra attack on monstrous claws you are looking at a 0.45 damage increase per 100p and a "wasted" command point. I think the role these dracoline units can fulfil is being deployed on the field instead of scions, while on foot evocators can be deepstriked. They are fast and can get where they need to be quickly. There are cheaper units to fulfil that role though. Like a ballista on field + unit of evocators.
19 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:Ok thank you. Its what i thought. So Normal Evos for me.
Same for me! I wish it were otherwise. Absolutely love the models.
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16 hours ago, Erdemo86 said:
Can someone do me a favor please and do the Math of Dracolines vs. Foot Evocators on charge?
want to know if the 100 points are worth it.
Dracolines about 2.9 damage per 100 points and on foot about 6 damage per 100 points. Quite underwhelming.
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16 hours ago, Erdemo86 said:
Can someone do me a favor please and do the Math of Dracolines vs. Foot Evocators on charge?
want to know if the 100 points are worth it.
Foot evocators are better as far i recall. About 30% better I think, but I will calculate them again later on and get back to you.
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2 hours ago, Unter said:
Hey Thralls are core to good lists.
Both the high placing Deepkin lists at BoBo (big English tourney) on the weekend played with I think 30 thralls split across 3 units.
They aren't superheroes, but they are very solid for what they do.
For example, you'd expect 10 thralls to do 8 wounds to a high wound monster with a 3+ save, that's without any buffs.
They tear through multi-wound, high armour targets, which is a relatively rare commodity, and they are flexible enough to deal with hordes.
You'd expect around 9 wounds against infantry with a 4+ save, for example.Crucially they also fight in both turns, remember you are still fighting with them after your opponent activates in his turn.
Again, not saying they are perfect, but they are very solid battleline.
That sounds nice. Did you manage to see the games? I am curious how they managed to get them in range. From personal experience opponents tend to know they are super strong and shoot them down turn 1 XD
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7 hours ago, Reuben Parker said:
Oh yeah I was meaning I wouldn’t like playing it rather than it’s OP (although I do think it would be good). Even with things like new SC and nurgle being a bit crazy having an entire fast flying army is a huge weapon. Especially as if you get to turn 3 with even a reasonable number of eels left it’s probably a win due to Volturnos multi pumping 3 units.
Having proxied the big thrall ball style I do agree it’s fragile and actually frustratingly hard to make the healing work. Renders should be either both battkeshock phases or our hero phases.
I actually started the army because I loved the look of the soul render and infiltration tactics. Soulscryer + 30 thralls and a soul render seemed so cool on paper to deep strike, lol.
I think GW will update thralls at some point. At least I hope they do
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8 hours ago, Manxs said:
The only things i have brought is the king a soulrender and tidecaster i also have a unit of thralls and one unit of revers
but after looking at what you guys have said i was looking more in to this i will be looking to replace the tralls and the revers
Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Nautilar
Leaders
Vulturnos, High King of the Deep (280)
- General
Isharann Tidecaster (100)
- Artefact: Arcane Pearl
- Lore of the Deeps: Protective Barrier (Nautilar Tidecasters)
Isharann Soulscryer (100)
- Artefact: Black Pearl
Battleline
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)
6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (320)
10 x Namarti Thralls (140)
Units
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (140)
10 x Namarti Reavers (140)
Behemoths
Akhelian Leviadon (380)
Battalions
Royal Council (140)
Akhelian Corps (100)
Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 98
Looks good! Depending on your local meta you can always replace some stuff. I think this list will be fun to play
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7 minutes ago, Reuben Parker said:
All eels maybe the most competitive (I say maybe as I don’t think IDK are fully explored) but saying that the eels do seem to have the most power. So we could be reductive and play something like.
Volturnos
tidecaster
scryer
3*6 spear eels
4*3 shield eels (sub in a unit or two of Thralls maybe for screening and zoning).
Although the list is probably very good, to me it just makes my heart cold. I have a strange combination as I like competitive gaming and tournaments but only playing lists that I also like. To me there’s no point doing IDK if your not using Aspects and turtles maybe with an allopex or the other way playing a bunch of Thralls.
As always though list building is horses for courses and what each person likes both in terms of models and play style.
I understand your point and I think you mean that your heart is cold as in that you won't enjoy the list, but if you meant that you feel you are coldhearted fielding an overly competitive list, that is hardly the case, the way it stands right now is that Idoneth are only barely competitive in the sense that if you wait until turn 3 you can pretty much delete any unit, but before that, you are going to perform much poorer than most armies.
If you look at the new Stormcast Eternals from the soul wars set stuff for example, Evocators are dealing a good 6 damage per 100 points unbuffed each turn, sequitors 5 damage per 100 points unbuffed (both against 4+ save targets).
Morrsarr guard on the other hand, our strongest unit, are doing about 5,2 damage per 100 points unbuffed after they managed to pull off a charge and use their one-time-use volt weapons, without that its even less and you will end up having to spend lots of points to protect said eels.
So if you want a bit of a mix, I would suggest investing in 1 big unit of Morrsarr and mix it with an AOS or turtle, maybe throw in an allopex. My "fun" list is basically Volt, AOS, Tidecaster, Soulscryer, 10x thralls, 3x Shield eels, 9x morsarr, 1 allopex, and its quite a lot of fun to play :). I am going to paint up the turtle next week though and may replace the AOS with it and am likely to either get 3 more morsarr to make 2x 6 groups, or a 2nd shield group to replace the thralls, but thralls and reavers by themselves are going to perform badly (I had a 30 group of thralls + soulrender at first...), you'll lose like 10 to 15 of them after a 200 point Evocator units charges and attacks them and likely lose a ton after that to battleshock... It really isn't fun to face :(, not to mention you cannot get them in range.
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5 hours ago, Manxs said:
Hey guys i just got some deepkin stuff and this a list i am thinking of running what do you think
Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Mor'Phann
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Leaders
Isharann Soulrender (100)
- General
- Trait: Born From Agony
- Artefact: Black Pearl
Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Sea (440)
- Artefact: Arcane Pearl
- Lore of the Deeps: Arcane Corrasion
Vulturnos, High King of the Deep (280)
Isharann Tidecaster (100)
- Lore of the Deeps: Protective Barrier (Nautilar Tidecasters)
Isharann Soulscryer (100)
Battleline
20 x Namarti Reavers (280)
20 x Namarti Thralls (280)
20 x Namarti Thralls (280)
Battalions
Namarti Corps (100)
Endless Spells
Soulsnare Shackles (20)
Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 95
If you haven't made purchases yet, I sincerly advice to avoid the thralls and reavers and get eels instead. Also, instead of the aspect of sea, get the turtle or more tidecasters (you could convert a few) :), your list will be a lot more competitive! The thralls and reavers are way too fragile to be the backbone of your army, and the aspect of the sea does not deal enough damage to make him worth his point cost (neither is the storm). I wish I had figured this out BEFORE buying, painting and playing them.
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43 minutes ago, Richelieu said:
Of course not! While other people were griping about how Soul Wars was a cash grab and useless for competitive players I was coming up with ideas for simple conversions that wouldn't cost us a dime!
I also got my hands on a couple of the Getting started magazines with alternate knight incantor sculpts to use as my evocator stand ins. Funny thing is the armor, vestments and iconography are identical to the evocators rather than the female knight incantor, so he looks like he belongs to the unit. I'll mix and match with a regular kit of evocators so I don't have any repeat sculpts within a unit.
Thank you!
I also used the female incantor stave as a grandstave for several evocator conversions. The boxed set look very cool and detailed, but the cheap route = best route when converting XD.
All my sequitors have swords now at least!
(Many harvested from the evocators haha)
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22 hours ago, Richelieu said:
You nailed what I was going for.
Do you mind if I steal the idea to make a similar conversion? I am planning to make a shattered shield and helmet resting against the sword to reinforce the gravesite idea. I have a derpy evocator who is standing with his hand in the air doing nothing lol.
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16 hours ago, Richelieu said:
I needed another greatmace Sequitor and really liked the pose of the ETB kit prime. I clipped off the shield, replaced it with an unused Tempestor sword and glued some extensions onto the mace.
Nicely done!
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12 minutes ago, DanielFM said:
It was just my opinion
however, the Grandmaul is a two handed weapon. Even in Warhammer, almost no-one uses a two handed weapon in one hand and a hand weapon in the other.
If he likes rule of cool, it's ok! It was only my point of view.
The way I see it is that the sword is stuck in the rock and would likely be something such as the grave of a fallen warrior, specially since the whole thing is sheeted. The prime is simply resting her hand on the sword while watching over her unit. I hardly consider this as her wielding it.
Also, when it comes to realism, smashing your sword in a rock isn't going to happen, you'll just shatter the blade, so I highly doubt she carried that thing there.
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16 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:
Wow, then it's not going to be good data.
I have pretty much had my hobby in limbo since TK went (I do mess around with Darkling Covens a bit, as a place-holder), and, in terms of GW, my biggest hope is a TK return (not new models, but just the plastics and Ushabti back).
Yet, I didn't buy Khalida or Settra.
If they want good data - and cannot produce plastic Made to Orders - Ushabti would be a much better barometer than two characters than most people have already (especially as one of the Tomb King on Exhalted Chariot's main abilities is basically obsolete now).
Indeed... setters was very wanted pre-Ghb2017 though. I ended up selling my TK army so I don't think about it anymore and can focus on new stuff. I really hope they return though. I miss their aesthetic.
I read somewhere that the majority of warhammer buyers do not play the game though. Perhaps it was marketed towards those?
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I actually think the made to order is partly there as a market survey to see which cut miniatures sell well to figure out in what direction to guide releases.
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What is that made DoK fail anyways? The models looks and/or ammount required or the rulesets? Lots of people complained that the DoK boxes were just way too costly for way too little points/pounds, but I didn't look into it (not a fan of the whole Khaine theme)
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51 minutes ago, michu said:
You reminded me that in Malign Portent book there was mention about human worshippers of Great Horned Rat. I imagine that it works like usual Chaos Champion's rise to power, but with a little twist. You kill and conquer for your god to ascend and rule over your own dominion in the warp as a Daemon Prince, but in the end you're being turned into a lowly slave to be used as cannon fodder by other Skaven and Champions.
Nice irony.
Human worshippers of the great horned rat? Thats quite interresting. I need to go read into that!
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On 7/24/2018 at 4:20 PM, kenshin620 said:
Well if you dont mind Non Skaven, could fill the Battleline Tax with x3 ungors (total 180pts). Could even say "they're ungor slaves"!
Any chaos unit can be a Skaven unit as long as there is a verminlord that transformed them
"They are ungors, but turned into Skaven."
How did it go? Did you manage to get any king buffs off? What kind of list did you play?^^
"They are ungors, but turned into Skaven."
AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion
in Order
Posted
I guess so, I was thinking he might have suicide the tidecaster to swap to a king general, but I suppose most players wont fall for that.