darkdaysdawn

Some of the grimghast reapers are a bit front heavy, even if you mount them at the back of the base. I have two 4mm x 2mm under each one, and that isn't enough weight to make a difference. I've been considering the smallest lead-free fishing weights I can find -- just CA glue one under the back of the base on each of the offending poses (not all the reapers have this issue). Other than reapers, no issues.

Edited.... How about 810 so he can play with two chainrasp hordes in a 1k list?

That's an optimistic viewpoint I hadn't considered: Doing one book from each G.Alliance seems like an elegant approach. Fingers crossed! I had to check, because FEC is very old too, but it's from 2019 and NH is 2018, so of the two, I would hope NH is the next Death army to get a book.

To be clear: I have essentially rewritten Ethereal to be "This model ignores rend from enemy attacks and can not gain the benefit of cover". (I don't know why NH didn't get cover in 2.0, but whatever...for consistency, I kept that the same).

FWIW, among my closer game buddies, I've taken back Mystic Shield (I use the new 3.0 version), and since All Out D and the rest of the new abilities are all basically the same type of bonus, I use those too. When I asked if this was ok with them, at least a couple said, "I thought Ethereal was just *ignore rend* anyway? Yeah, that's dumb. You should get the new abilities." Not only did they not care, but a few thought that's how NH worked anyway, so to them this wasn't a change. It makes the games way less one-sided, and NH is actually enjoyable again. They're still not very competitive, but at least you're playing the same game as your buddies. And it certainly does not make NH OP (especially vs 27" range poisonous Shooter-boyz lists).

I certainly did miss the or equal! Thanks! So it's still as effective (in fact, slightly more effective), just not usable when we need it most. Sigh.

I don't think anyone has mentioned the nerfing of Heroic Recovery here yet. I think that's really going to hurt NH. We already have wimpy heroes, who don't get Mystic Shield (but used to), All Out D, or Finest Hour. A Spirit Torment is great for healing heroes, but costs 115, which eats into our "fighting budget". Life Stealer and Spectral Tether require a target in range, and are unreliable (especially with all the unbinding bonuses enemies get). I've been using Heroic Recovery quite a bit so my heroes can actually enter combat and maybe not die. Now GW have made it less reliable (no longer heals 1 wound if the 2d6 roll ties your bravery), and it can't be used in combat (must be 3" from all enemies). It's utility has been greatly diminished, to the point that I don't think it'll be useful at all. We're now down to 1 useful Heroic Action for NH: Heroic Leadership. Willpower is unnecessary (we have lots of wizards), Finest Hour only half works, and now Recovery can't be used when we need it most. I'm totally baffled? Unless you want to play Nagash, we're now even more useless than we were 2 days ago. (And if you're playing a 1k game, Nagash isn't an option).

I do not believe we can -- AoS The App does not allow it. I do think Kurdoss will be a lot stronger at 160 points though -- good inclusion. If we can't use all the new defensive buffs, or Mystic Shield 3.0, then at least we can try to deny 1/3rd of the opportunities for our opponent to use those things against us. And at 160, only 40 more than KoSoES, you get +1 Wounds and better damage output.

That's basically what I was saying too. It just took me 5 paragraphs to get there.

That is absolutely one way to interpret this change, and not unreasonable. However, I will use this as an opportunity to contrast and compare the AoS 2.0 to 3.0 changes, RAW, that killed NH while making everyone else tougher... If we are supposed to play "rules as intended", then why aren't we using Mystic Shield (which was improved for everyone else in 3.0, and removed for us, despite it being on all our wizards' original warscrolls). Also, it's been 6 months and no mention of that in FAQs, so does that mean taking Mystic Shield away from NH was intended? If that's the case, then it clearly sets a precedent (and probably not for the first time) that players should play RAW, not RAI, because GW's intentions are clearly anything by clear. That's just my 0.02, but if I manage to buy, build, and paint a Nagash before this rule is FAQed, I intend to play it RAW, which in my mind allows hexwraiths to bodyguard because it is the hexwraiths exercising an allegiance ability, not Nagash. TOs can, and will, rule how they want, but the majority of AoS games played are not at tournaments, so hey...play it how you like it, I guess? Probably won't make a huge difference for most players in most games -- especially compared to the the devastating changes from AoS 2.0 to 3.0, resulting from 2.0 RAW clashing with 3.0 RAW that took away Mystic Shield 2.0 and gave everyone else a more powerful Mystic Shield, plus also gave everyone else a non-magical version of Mystic Shield which we also don't get, thus creating, on average, a 25% power swing away from our favour (enemy uses AoA and we don't get AoD = 25% advantage to enemy), plus making garrisoning stronger for everyone else, and creating a Heroic Action we only get half of too. I would still very much like to know why NH weren't allowed the benefit of Cover in 2.0? That's the only defensive bonus / ethereal rules interaction that was left intact between 2.0 and 3.0, and for the life of me, I still can't figure out why it exists. Can a ghost not duck behind a wall?

Lots of good ideas for Nagash + Hexwraith lists, but man...I just can't bring myself to buy hexwraiths. They look worse than the Crypt Infernal model with two right arms (which I do have, and it bugs me constantly -- I can't unsee it!) How about spamming generals and abusing teleportation? Nagash, Olynder (general), Reikenor in Reikenor's Condemmed -- three generals means three heroes that can Spectral Summon units into 12" bubbles around themselves. Three 12" bubbles covers a lot of battlefield! PS: Currently working on hexwraith conversions with Dreadblade bodies and Grimghast arms, but that's expensive, so I'll probably only build one unit with the spare Reaper parts I already have.

KoSoES (General, Ruler of the Spirit Hosts, Pendent of the Fell Wind) Nagash Black Coach 10 Grimghast Reapers (x2) 3 Spirit Hosts (x3) 1995/2000 points Every battleline unit gets 1 model returned each of your hero phases by Invocation of Nagash, plus RotSH and Coach return d3 models more each. If Supreme Lord of the Undead applies (the inclusion of DEATH keyword in the description is confusing) then Invocation of Nagash returns 2 models and RotSH/Coach return d3+1. Use Death Magic Incarnate on KoSoES every turn so he has WARD 5+. Both heroes are generals, so they can both use Spectra Summons to teleport units as needed. Doesn't abuse hexwraiths as bodyguards, but seems fairly stout as it is, and should be able to hurt things if you play the charges right.

Ok, cool, thanks for clarifying. I was worried there'd be a big debate and we'd have to wait for another FAQ, which would be annoying since we're already waiting for a WD update and a book...and some new models would be nice...and still waiting...and waiting.

"you can choose either the EMERALD HOST or REIKENOR’S CONDEMNED Procession keyword. All NIGHTHAUNT units in your army gain that keyword," Nagash does not get the EMERALD HOST keyword because he is not a NIGHTHAUNT unit, however... " In addition, roll a dice before you allocate a wound or mortal wound to your general if they are within 3" of any friendly EMERALD HOST HEXWRAITHS units. On a 2+, you must allocate that wound or mortal wound to one of those units instead." ...Does not refer to an "EMERALD HOST general", just a "general", so Nagash would be able to offload damage to EMERALD HOST hexwraiths. I'm not sure how this could be read any other way? What is the basis for arguing that Nagash cannot use Hexwraiths as bodyguards? Was there any reason given by TOs or other people you've talked to?

955? Did that change? I believe it's 970. If it did change, I could sure use those 15 points...

I would like the new Soulblight Deadly Coordination ability for Nighthaunt please! That sounds really fun, especially for NH since we have so many fun by fragile heroes. Soul Cage is kinda cool, but it's not guaranteed to go off, and if you've already closed range the previous turn and the spell fails, your hero/wiz is probably in trouble. Deadly Coordination would be like Mini-Soul-Cage-Lite. Ghastly Coordination? PS: This would make my dream of having a Cairn Wraith with the Reaper of Sorrows or something lead a unit of Reapers, without losing the Cairn Wraith in the first combat, a reality. Just seems like a fun combo, especially from the Underworlds in enemy territory for a battle tactic!

Casual where I play still means Gotrek, Nagash, Archaon, etc. And the new Kruleboyz and Stormcast books are really terrible to play against. Ethereal = "Ignore Rend" so far makes games much more enjoyable and much closer. Played against SC this evening, and we both had more fun (else SC would have likely tabled NH in 3 rounds, based on previous games). I like the house rule so far. I don't want to build a Hexwraith list just because our book sucks. That's not very fun, IMO. If anyone else would care to try this house rule, I'd be interested to know if it feels balanced or OP. Thanks.

I have a Nighthaunt Patch proposal for casual games with friends (as in, we own our stuff and can play how we want, but wouldn't expect such a patch to be official): Why not change Ethereal to read: "Ignore negative modifiers when making save rolls for attacks that target this unit.", as opposed to ignoring negative AND positive modifiers? Or make it even simpler, "This unit ignores Rend from enemy attacks"? This would allow us to use cover, garrisons, All Out Defense, Mystic Shield, and Their Finest Hour (i.e. the obvious list of buffs we currently can't use but everyone else can). Thematically, if an ork and a ghost are both inside buildings, both should be harder to hit, because they're inside buildings! Thematically, 3.0 and Ethereal as implemented make no sense at all. A shield is a shield, mystical or physical -- it blocks stuff and doesn't care what is standing behind it. I don't see an easy we could abuse this -- I don't see any spells, abilities, or universal enhancements that we would be able to use other than the same core rules (listed above) that everyone else can use too. Statistically, the new Mystic Shield is more powerful than the v2.0 implementation, so not only did we lose defensive buffs in 3.0 but everyone else's defensive buffs got more powerful (reroll 1's to Save is not as good as +1 to Save roll -- the former offers a 6.25% Save improvement whereas the new 3.0 buffs offer a 12.5% improvement to Save likelihood, based on a 4+ Save characteristic). I don't think this would be unbalancing -- we're already totally out of balance. But perhaps I haven't noticed some ramifications that would be problematic, which is why I'm posting for feedback.

Are Ward Saves optional? Specifically, does Reikenor have to attempt a ward save when using a corpse candle on himself? (I thought I'd read a discussion about it here somewhere in the past, but I couldn't find it...sorry) Thanks.

Help with Spectral Summons: When I first read this ability, it seemed like a tool the general could use to summon minions to their side. Made sense. But then in practice, you have to have a hero near the minions to issue the command, which has the unfortunate side effect of leaving an unprotected hero behind. Also, thematically, it's not as if the general is summoning anything at all -- it's more like a sub-commander is saying to the minions, "Hey, the boss wants to see you. Report to him immediately." which feels...um...less thematic and cool. Anyway... What are reasonable uses of this ability? I'm aware of the Dreadblade Harrows teleport shinanigans, but that still leaves a hero behind, unless the Dreadblade is the hero giving the command and can thus teleport himself immediately after issuing the command. I've also read some people making a Dreadblade their general, but I don't see how that improves things? I guess you could teleport the Dreadblade to a target location, then have another hero tell the unit of minions to teleport to the general? Other than rescuing a poorly considered deep strike from the underworlds, I struggle to find uses for our special Nighthaunt command ability. Tips please and thanks! Cheers.

Hahah...yeah, I tried that too. I even offered to rewrite the app for them. Didn't go over well. I had better luck reporting one bug at a time via the survey link. But yes...tedious given the number of glaringly obvious bugs they should have found themselves.

Indeed, but they are accepting bug reports. They've even followed up and asked me for screen shots, so they are working on it. https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/3DSRJ8N They definitely still have a long way to go though.

Gotcha. So I guess I need to read the SOB book? 🙂 Thanks for explaining. Also, I think AoS The App has yet another bug then - it considers my list invalid if I add Big Drogg (says I can't have allies AND mercenaries, but I only have the one SOB; the rest is all Nighthaunt proper).

I'm not sure if that's a joke or a real list, but it would definitely be interesting. What about the limit of 400 points for allies? Also, what's this about Mercenary units? I feel like I missed a rule or something. Is there a way to include mercenaries that's different than including allies? Thanks.

I'm sorry I missed that! It's a very long thread when you start from the beginning. 😉 Glad to have confirmation that I understood those rules correctly. Thanks so much for all the extra info too. I've replayed some games in my head and considered the range/charge situations you describe. Makes a lot more sense. I think I was trying to charge from way to far away. "Charge at an angle" also makes a lot of sense -- now I see how I to unleash my 2nd rank of troops. That leaves me with one question though: How do I make use of Death Comes Swiftly (or should I?) without bursting my aura bubbles? Is it only really useful for sending in an alpha strike to pin something while you focus the rest of the deathstar elsewhere, or to sprint to an objective, but not necessarily try to land a charge afterwards? Ok, I guess I have a second question too, lol: Is the NH deathstar designed to play the objective game, or to table the opponent? I noticed having most of my army in one blob leaves lot of unprotected territory/objectives that my opponent's fast-movers can get to pretty easily (although I do try to pin/block those units with something from the Underworlds). Thanks for the tips/advice/clarifications. Cheers.