LeonBox
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Posts posted by LeonBox
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It's a real shame she can't cast the healing spells with unlimited range. Their 6" range is extremely limiting. Why can't Slaanesh's holy number be 12?
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51 minutes ago, Enoby said:
5× chaos warriors
5× chaos warriors
5× chaos warriors
11× blissbarbs
Can I ask why you took 4 battleline rather than 3? Why not drop a unit of Chaos Warriors and spend those points on something pretty? (Not that we have anything pretty for 90 pts)
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6 hours ago, umpac said:
Good point, but this only adds to the wierdness of the spell. Why not give the spell infinite range instead of having it as a special rule? For the insanely rare situation where other can steal the spell and that way make it useless for the opponent? Gonna try building some lists after I mentally processed their warscrolls and try them out by proxying or playing TTS. I'm trying to keep an open mind about them but Im struggling. Maybe they surprise me on the table.
Hey now -- it also makes it completely useless for an allied Kairos to borrow too!
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4 minutes ago, umpac said:
Just saw the scrolls and points, pretty disappointing rules. I'm surprised the models are cheaper than a keeper, I expected them to be around the same, but that's at least one bullet dodged. Really shocking that they are weaker and cheaper than a keeper in game as well. Synessa especially is baffling. She has access to 19 spells but shes a single cast wizard. She can cast Pavane globally but its a 7+ CV and she has no +cast. And what the heck is that warscroll spell!? Its hero only, its 3" range and you need to beat their bravery on 3D6 for +1 to hit! Did they have an in-house competition on who could write the worst spell imaginable, put it on the warscroll as a joke and forgot to change it?
Fighty-boy is a bit better at least. He needs to rush into combat to start stacking his buff and hes made of glass so he will rarely reach crazy damage. Maybe he has some potential when paired with a kipper to protect him and make him go twice. Hes warscroll is a bit bare bones though.
Trying to stay positive but really hoped that these would fill some of the gaps in the army and they are just so lacking. Even with point decreases their warscrolls are still very luke-warm. At least the models are gorgeous. I want to believe that GW is trying to stay away from power creep and lower the general power level of armies, but then Kroak is in the same book and is even more busted than ever with a pretty modest pts increase.
One thing I will add is that the range of the warscroll spell is made irrelevant by the fact that it can be cast anywhere on the field.
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11 minutes ago, azdimy said:
And I assume this does not generate a depravity point?
No, I don't think so as no wound is inflicted; the artefact is destroyed in place of taking a wound.
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28 minutes ago, azdimy said:
Do you lose the extra wound when you sacrifice the lurid haze artefact to the fane?
I will be trying the twins in a list later today as well but in a mostly mortal list so we ll see
Yes, you lose the wound because the artifact is gone.
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33 minutes ago, Enoby said:
I'll be trying the twins today in an AoS 3 style list (e.g. no battalions)
Lurid Haze
Dexcessa (general)
Synessa
Keeper, Lurid Haze Artifact (to fane)
Contorted Epitome (general), Rod of Misrule
Battleline
5 Chaos warriors
5 Chaos warriors
5 Chaos warriors
11 Blissbarb archers
Other
6 fiends
Endless spells
Chronomatic Cogs
Dreadful visage
Probably not the best list, but I want to test it. I'll do a write up after the game
Very interested to know how it turns out. I may run a Keeper as one of the twins (or two Keepers as both) next week, since their bases are basically the same size.
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1 hour ago, PrimeElectrid said:
Elves get all the love historically? 6th edition Dark Elves and 7th-8th edition Wood Elves would like a word.
High Elves on the other hand...
Alright yes, specifically High Elves. 8th edition Dark Elves were pretty mean as well though, though they were easier to counter than High Elves.
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I've just noticed as well that despite Dexcessa wielding the "Scourge of Slaanesh" (which I assume is a whip), it actually seems to be the Synessa model that has anything resembling such a weapon.
Dexcessa 
Synessa, with what looks like the whip.
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23 minutes ago, Yoid said:
In today article they mention that Dexcessa is a Greater Daemon again. She dosn't have the Greater Daemon keyword that would grant acces to improved locus and spell lore, is not even a caster.
Oof, I didn't even notice they lacked the Greater Daemon keyword.
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57 minutes ago, Phasteon said:
Well, its hard to argue against that, as some of the LRL rules are literally gamebreaking (e.g. the pile in-restriction of the Hurakan so that they are untouchable for range 1“ melee or the LOS ignoring Mw shooting, or autocasting with such high casting values) but on the other hand I wouldnt call other armies rules „uninspired“ as I think it doesnt do the designers work justice.
I have not read a single battletome where I thought to myself „wow thats boring“, for me every army has some unique traits and/or abilities - some just dont seem to be that impactful and I think thats something GW needs to adress.
For example Nighthaunt.
Their deepstrike / fight ability is potentially more gamebreaking than the LRL activate two units, but its just such a rare case.
Make it unmodified 9+ after deepstrike and there you go. Every unit that just appeared and charged gets to fight.
Same with the bravery. Make it stack to -3 or even -6 and/or make it so that units within certain models cant use abilities that lets them ignore battleshock (that sounds borderline broken but tbh I just want it to happen, make - bravery stacking actually scary)
The rules are there, they are more often than not just not impactful enough whereas shooting without LOS or activating 2 units at a time will very often come to play.
BUT then again, most of the time its units like Cathallar or Archers in shining company that are picked to fight, so you can really only capitalize on that ability on the offense where LRL struggle imo.
So its actually a moot point.
The Ironjawz got a somewhat similar, even stronger rule and I never perceived them being regarded as OP while also having things like D6 move after taking damage, double move for CP and things like +3 charge with 3D6 on buffed Ardboyz.
What exactly are those armies with uninspired rules and why?
I‘ve read Soulblight - but why are their rules regarded as unfun/ bad ?
I think they look fun.I‘ve read black knights multiple times, whats wrong with them for example?
I‘m really curious on this because if its an objective point people make and not just blowing steam, there are certainly points to back it up.
I can only really speak for Slaanesh but the last battletome, whilst massively improving Depravity Point generation and adding some great new units, really dropped the ball on the lore (why do Godseekers and Pretenders still exist when Slaanesh has been found?) and certain warscrolls/battalions (Shardspeakers are support wizards that need to be within striking distance, some battalions require completely anti-synergistic units, the less said about Slaangors the better). There's not too much lore to support the new mortal stuff either -- Hedonites got no novels and the lore in the battletome is in many parts a straight copy-paste from the last one.
Loath as I am to bring LRL up again but the amount of love they got mechanically (2 Battletomes, Aetherquartz special rules, double activation, powerful magic, powerful ranged, powerful melee, bucketloads of mortal wound output, autocasting, free re-roll to magic from terrain piece, free CP from terrain piece, powerful and versatile spell lores, fast units, tough units, strong units, etc. etc. etc.) as well as fluff-wise (novels, Teclis got his own BR book) makes it seem like not all factions are created equal.As said, I cannot speak for Soulblight but I've heard a lot of complaints that the vampire heroes are pretty boring with the same 3/3/-1/D3 attack profiles and a dearth of interesting/flavourful rules.
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31 minutes ago, Yoid said:
Last note about Synessa. A 3.0 CA that give +1 to cast or +1 to number of spells cast can really improve her. Higly doubtful, but who knows.
Is there *any* chance at all that 3.0 will feature any sort of rework to basic Hedonite mechanics? It seems unlikely given how recently our book came out, but something like "spend [x] DPs for +1 to cast" would be really awesome.
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2 hours ago, Jaskier said:
Being perfectly honest, I've never once used Cogs in a tournament game with Slaanesh. I find they're just not necessary, but yeah, a list built around Synessa would probably want them handy.
I've used them a fair bit in the past (useful for guaranteed turn 1 charges) but we're already so fast that they're often not necessary. They will be fantastic with Synessa, though.
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Upon reflection it's probably best that Synessa didn't get unlimited-range Slothful Stupor; that would be extremely feelsbad for our opponents and precisely the kind of interaction for which LRL is frequently criticised. Unlimited-range Pavane is actually very nice as I believe that spell is usually 6" and almost never sees use (at least not in my lists) because the only thing that would conceivably use it is always going to take a spell from the Greater Daemon lore.
As it is, this is the perfect spell to cast on LRL fox archers. Rolling 24 dice and dealing MWs on 5s to those guys is going to feel very, very good indeed.
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6 minutes ago, Overread said:
Lore is never manifest on the table. Heck Greater Demons spent almost all of Old World being only twice the height of a human (and then only just) and being way smaller than a giant. Yet lore wise they were vast beasts and capable of using incredible levels of power.
AoS has literal gods on the table, which at the scales we play, even accounting for some creative concept of "one model equals 100 in reality"; our forces are still way too small. Nagash on the table should sweep anything that isn't a God on the other side away in a single hand wave.
Absolutely. But I still find it utterly baffling that this "reflection of Slaanesh's godly arcane power" can't be a two-cast wizard (or at least one with some thematic way to get casting bonuses, à la the new Warsong Revenant).
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3 hours ago, yukishiro1 said:
It honestly feels like the biggest problem is that different books get different amounts of attention. You have high attention books like Lumineth, where the love the author had for the faction is dripping from every page, and then you have low attention books like Soulblight or Slaanesh, where it feels like the author was just checking off boxes. That may or may not be the truth, but the fact that that is the impression created is itself a problem.
This is absolutely the case as I see it. Elves historically get all the love from GW (who can forget the Alariellestar days of WHFB High Elves) and the attention lavished upon LRL, including their byzantine ruleset and constant exceptions from established rules (auto-casting, deep-striking to 3", MWs on no-LOS shooting, double activations etc. etc.) makes it feel bad when cool-looking stuff from other factions gets very uninspired rules.
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The lore for the Voice now though:
"While still perfectly capable of bisecting foolish mortal warriors with their claws, Synessa prefers to let their magical might do the talking – which is even more worrying for unlucky foes that now have to stare down a reflection of Slaanesh's own godly arcane power."
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Synessa's spell is so very bland. Basically a better version of Dark Delusions from the mortal lore (making that one more spell that is useless to them).
Dexcessa is fairly tanky with the free CP; -1 to hit, +1 save from Lurid Haze (still little reason to take any other faction right now) and with the CPs overflowing you could easily give them re-roll saves of one even if you don't get Mystic Shield off. If you pair them up with Glutos you've got a tanky shred-monster that gets more dangerous every round. A little surprised they didn't get MWs on 6s to wound, though.
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Dexcessa could combo really well with Glutos in the same way that Fiends currently do (and assuming the rumours that modifiers are capped at +/-1 is not true). Sure, they won't survive against concentrated ranged fire, but what does these days? If you can get them into melee combat fast and with Glutos in range, they'll be pretty difficult to stop.
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1 hour ago, pnkdth said:
There seem to be a disconnect between what the twins are and the expectations of what people wanted/believed them to be. They are not the spawn of a fully powered and unleashed Slaanesh but the result of a portion of Slaanesh's power seeping through the cracks of its prison. Not saying you have to love it, just manage expectations. Two god-tier units which immediately overshadows Keepers would not have been ideal either (as I suspect people would have been furious claiming GW making the battletome obsolete and forcing us to pay for new models/expansions to compete, like typical GW amirite?).
Seeing as HoS got a lot of new units recently and a new battletome I didn't even expect the twins to be a thing at all. Instead, we get two new models who can realistically fit into the same army or complement an army with their respective abilities and areas of focus.
TL;DR: Imma wait for the rules and see what's what.
Yep I think, upon reflection, this is a healthy outlook to have. I certainly wouldn't want Keepers to be even more overshadowed than they are right now, and it does seem like these two will, as @Enoby pointed out, have some utility outside of mega-caster or beatstick. Having an un-unbindable Slothful Stupor will be pretty good, as well as the toolbox of the other Slaanesh spells. Worst case scenario, we've gained new options.
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2 minutes ago, MothmanDraws said:
it would but it also eats into value of the voice. The voice gets access to every spell but if it gives immunity to BS for mortals and already flies thats 2 of its 15 spells it doesn't need
The lore is
1 fly spell (not useful on twins)
2 Healing spells
slothfull (turn off a hero)
BS immune for d3 mortal units (command ability could negate)
roll over bravery to get a +1 to hit target unit
then rest are all variations on "do mortal wounds" based on either unit size, movement value or bravery, all of which can be taken on contorted epitome which is 2/2 cast and re rolls its casts.
really little of these have any value on infinite range outside of slothfull stupor(7+ with no bonus), maybe you can be cheeky with some endless spells. But these are all coming out of a 1 cast wizard, she would be cooler if you could spend 3 depravity to cast another spell. The actual spells you want on Voice are warscroll ones that it cannot cast.
Any word on whether they get a warscroll spell, or just access to all the Slaanesh spells?
Also, is there any chance at all that the terrible mortal lore gets spells added/reworked? -
5 minutes ago, Jaskier said:
I think you're misreading the room, at least as far as I'm concerned. I'm not complaining about how competitive they are. In fact, I think they actually look quite competitive. I'm disappointed because I wanted these to be proper god-tier equivalent models reflecting their lore - I was really hoping that we'd be getting something like a Morathi or Godrakk equivalent. These just look like slightly weaker Keepers (in terms of overall stats and abilities) with underwhelming gimmicks. I'm underwhelmed by them.
Same. I was already disappointed by the models (there's way too much Keeper in them, and the sceptre is pretty unimpressive in either build) but was hoping they might have some cool rules. If the leaks are true they don't.
At least we have the February release with all of the cool mortal models. Could be worse; we could be BoC. -
5 minutes ago, MothmanDraws said:
the melee one just on demon of slaanesh, and demon of slaanesh wholly withn 12 are immune to battleshock
Haha wow that immunity to battleshock is really gonna come in useful on my bravery 10 daemons, can't wait!
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AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion
in Hedonites of Slaanesh
Posted · Edited by LeonBox
Had a battle versus FEC last night which I surprisingly won despite some extremely poor rolls. My list:
Lurid Haze
Leaders (6)
Glutos, Dark Delusions, Priestess having a serious crisis of faith
Keeper of Secrets, General, Sinistrous Hand, Progeny of Damnation, Lurid Haze item
Sigvald the Magnificent, deathwish
Contorted Epitome, General, Rod of Misrule
The Masque, General, slayer of ghouls
Vicebringer
Battleline
2x5 Chaos Warriors, all the bells and whistles
1 x 11 Blissbarb archers
Battalions
Supreme Sybarites
Endless Spells
Dreadful Visage
My opponent's list, roughly:
No allegiance AKA that one that lets you pile in and attack again for free 1/round
Terrorgheist with dude on the back
Zombie dragon with dude on the back
20 x ghouls
10 x ghouls
Abhorrent Arch-Regent with +2 to cast, curious aversion to leaving his throne almost the whole battle
Another Abhorrent type, also determined to sit on the throne all day
8 x Crypt Horrors
(Summoned) 2 x Varghulfs
(Summoned) 10 ghouls
(Summoned) 3 x Crypt Flayers
The battleplan was "Take and Hold" (the two objectives directly opposite each other, take both simultaneously to win). My opponent castled up and put ghouls all around his castle to prevent Sigvald from deepstrike charging anything important.
The battle in précis:
Round 1 Slaanesh
I took first turn, moved most things up and Lurid Hazed the Herald to block off deepstriking on one of my flanks. My original plan was to deepstrike Siggy, but he had not a single appealing target. The Keeper sacrificed the Lurid Haze artifact for +1 to hit.
Blissbarb shooting represented, putting 3 wounds on a Horror and wiping out 7(!) ghouls from 10 shots.
Round 1 FEC
My opponent summoned in 3 Flayers and 10 ghouls on a chunk of real estate I'd unwisely left open in my backfield. Nothing else moved because he wanted to maximise his free summoning from the FEC terrain piece.
Round 2 Slaanesh
I charged Siggy, probably quite stupidly, into 20 screening ghouls. My rationale was that it was a price worth paying to set up a counter-charge on the terrorgheist behind them. He wiped them out without needing a second activation from the Keeper sitting 12" behind him.
A bunch of Aquiescence went off from the Herald (moving to deal with the backfield Flayers/Ghouls) and the Epitome. Despite this, my archers fluffed their 21 shots into the backfield flayers, dealing maybe 3 wounds. The Herald and 5 Chaos Warriors I'd had babysitting my objective charged in and killed 1 Flayer and 3-4 ghouls.
Round 2 FEC
Due to careless Blissbarb positioning, my opponent charged his Horrors into the screening Chaos Warriors and also managed to tie up the archers (I had left them just within 3"). The Chaos Warriors easily died and 3 archers went too.
The Terrorgheist annihilated Sigvald despite my spending 2 command points to put him on a re-rollable 2+. My opponent also threw up a gravetide whatever gate thing to block the Keeper behind Siggy, and also screened out the Terrorgheist with 10 ghouls. I believe he also got off a re-roll wounds spell from the zombie dragon dude.
Round 3 Slaanesh
I dispelled his zombie fence and crippled the terrorgheist with much famishment from Glutos' warscroll spell. The depravity already overfloweth so I summoned a second Keeper in my backfield (foolishly, I did not place it in such a way that I could use it to re-activate my other Keeper).
My archers were making up for their strong round 1 shooting now by failing to force even a single save on the Crypt Horrors. They were subsequently wiped out in combat.
The original Keeper zipped across the battlefield to engage the Crypt Horrors on the left flank, far from the Terrorgheist but close to his zombie dragon. I put 10 wounds on them but 8 Horrors is so very many wounds (32, in fact). My opponent removed casualties so that they were no longer in combat with the Keeper.
My herald and Chaos Warriors finally took his backfield lurkers out.
Round 3 FEC
My opponent charged the Keeper with his zombie dragon and a Varghulf, and the Epitome and Glutos with his Horrors. The zombie dragon did very little even with the free extra activation, and my Keeper disappointingly didn't kill the Varghulf (I fluffed the impaling claw attacks even hitting on 2s).
The Epitome died, failing to get off Horrible Fascination but managing to prevent pile-ins with the Locus, which was good news for Glutos. The big boi brought the hurt, putting through 8-10 wounds on the Horrors.
I believe my opponent moved the Terrorgheist back at this stage to make a charge on it harder (it was still famished so couldn't easily get to me).
Round 4 Slaanesh
Keeper #2 charged my opponent's other Varghulf, located just beyond the Glutos-Horror combat. Keeper #1, gamely holding on with 10 wounds taken, was still in combat with Varghulf #1 and zombie dragon. The Herald moved up and charged the zombie dragon.
I summoned 30 daemonettes on my right flank, ready to defend if/when his Terrorgheist came forward. Glutos famished the poor beast again.
Glutos killed the Horrors. Both Keepers continued to disappoint: Keeper #1 failed to kill Varghulf #1, leaving it on 7 wounds, and Keeper #2 put only a couple on his own (I got three hits through with her claws due to exploding sixes, then rolled three ones. Sigh.). The zombie dragon and Varghulf #1 killed Keeper #1. The Herald held on to lock the zombie dragon in combat.
Round 4 FEC
The Herald was killed by the zombie dragon's pestilential breath. The Terrorgheist charged the Masque (locked in her own private war with 10 ghouls for the past turn or so), needing to spend 2 CPs to do so thanks to crippling famishment. The now-free dragon charged Glutos.
The Terrorgheist killed the Masque (12 mortal wounds from his maw!) and Glutos killed the zombie dragon.
Round 5 Slaanesh
The Keeper retreated from the Varghulf, up towards my opponent's backfield. Glutos moved up, failing to famish the Terrorgheist this time, but the Keeper got Slothful Stupor on it. At some point Varghulf #1 was killed but I don't remember how.
The backfield Keeper summoned 20 daemonettes, who made their 9" charge into the 10 ghouls guarding his objective. My 30 daemonettes moved to my own objective, and after a double pile-in on the 20 daemonettes from the Keeper, it was game to me.
A very, very close game that went right down the wire. Summoning was absolutely key for me (I wouldn't have had the bodies to win if not for it) -- I summoned 50 daemonettes and a Keeper over the course of the game.
Learned some valuable lessons about keeping fragile units better screened. My archers were too close to their screening warriors and paid the price.
Oh, and although it didn't really end up affecting too much, I failed Glutos' 2+ ward save four out of five times. Between that and the awful Keeper rolls, I really need some new dice as these ones are clearly cursed.