Neil Arthur Hotep
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Posts posted by Neil Arthur Hotep
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1 minute ago, Snarff said:
I don't think Legends has an image problem as much as that legends rules aren't maintained. If Grombrindal gets a beautiful 3rd Warscroll with bravery on it, it'll be quite useless as soon as 4th hits. And if they commit to it and continuously update the rules (which they haven't before for Legends rules to my knowledge), why not just keep the model available? It's just one more model to print, they add new heroes to factions all the time.
Of course, the best thing would be to have models perpetually for sale, properly integrated into a faction. That much is clear.
But starting from the assumption that GW is not always able or willing to do that for every commemorative or side game model? Putting them into Legends right away is the best solution. What other options are there?
- Release them with no rules: "But they already put out a model, why can't I use it in game?"
- Release them with matched play rules, then legends them next edition: "Great bait and switch, GW! I would not have bought that model if I knew you were squatting it."
- Release the model and update the rules: "Why is this weird out of production model from 6 years ago required to play competitively? Great pay to win game you got there, James Workshop!"
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4 minutes ago, Snarff said:
It is definitely the best way to handle models which won't always be available (otherwise you'd get 'Pay to Win' situations very fast) but I don't think that's the main point people are disappointed about.
It's disappointing that Grombrindal has been built up in AoS so much recently (2 White Dwarf short stories series, one of which was novelized with a bigger story alongside it, a new design, a role in Broken Realms, an appearance in a Gotrek book, etc.) and that there's finally an AoS model for him, and then they make it limited edition.
They could've easily done something like they did with Gotrek. Multi-faction, still with rules, great model to paint and show off too. But this just goes on the pile of limited one-off models they've released recently. Especially in terms of Duardin models we've had four in the past couple of years. (Jakkob Bugmansson, Torrk Lenssen, Brakki of the Gilded Key and now Grombrindal)
It's certainly reasonable to want more dwarf action in AoS. I'd like to see that, too. But maybe 4th ed is finally the time for it
I stand by what I said about Legends having an image problem, though. If they had a separate category which was functionally the same, but called "Narrative rules" or whatever, I really believe people would be more accepting of it.
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3 minutes ago, Sception said:
until the end of whatever edition they're published in, at which point they stop being playable even for casual & narrative due to not being updated to work with the current ruleset. Every previous legends scroll will still have bravery instead of control, for instance, and many already have rules text that makes no sense in 3rd edition, let alone 4th. The stuff going into legends in 4th will be relatively playable until 5th (unless their legends scroll has some unit breaking typo in it that never gets fixed), at which point they'll not really be playable anymore.
It's not the end of the world, there's always homebrew, but I don't think there's any spin or purely perception based change that will fix why most players don't care for legends rules and consider their units being shifted to legends the same as if they were removed outright.
The perception change I am talking about is that at time of release, legends rules are just as good as non-legends rules (for non-tournament play). Putting a model's rules directly into Legends tells you what to expect: You can play this unit for now, but don't count on them being a permanent fixture in the game. This is 100% the best way to handle limited edition and side game models.
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4 minutes ago, Chikout said:
A lot of the disappointment on here seems to come from unrealistic expectations. As far as I'm aware Grombindal has never had rules as part of the core game for AoS or Warhammer fantasy. It's always been semi unofficial white dwarf magazine rules.
He's also not really been involved in the main narrative of either game. It was Grungi that was the mysterious old character in the broken realms book and not Grombindal. Him getting a dedicated novel as the most he's ever had unless I'm forgetting something from fantasy.
There's still potential for an official unified Duardin faction but it will be because of Grungi and not Grombindal
It's also a bit frustrating to see the community as a whole just ignoring sections of the rules. If a designer sat down to write a warscroll and battle plans it worth at least taking a look rather than dismissing it out of hand.
Wouldn't it be great if one of things to come out of some of these changes is the community actually embracing legends.
Legends rules have an image problem. They are treated as a warscroll graveyard, when it would be much better to treat them as non-tournament legal rules. Legends rules are perfect for casual matched play and narrative games.
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1 minute ago, Tonhel said:
What a mini! Best version of him to date.
But can someone point out the KO and FS stuff on him? It's mentioned in the article. I gonna buy this one, but he will a king TOW 😄
I think the pocket watch and weights on his belt are KO bits. I don't know enough about Fyreslayers to point out their stuff, though. Maybe the rune on the axe?
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2 minutes ago, Jagged Red Lines said:
Damn, why legends rules
That's the best part! Straight into casual-only, so he can get fun fluffy rules and we don't have to worry about a limited edition model messing up competitive play for the next three years.
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2 minutes ago, Luperci said:
I hope if slaanesh does get free they swap places with another God and we get to see that, Nagash or Khorne in space prison would be funny to see
Release the Malerion faction and then put him into deity jail right away.
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21 minutes ago, PraetorDragoon said:
Which is why I was in favour of having basic heroes join units. Its much more in line with what both designers and players want out of it. Having the heroes seperate in AOS isn't the best setup when we don't want basic heroes to be able to take units on their own.
Having infantry units give 4+ bodyguard to infantry heroes in their own regiment seems like a soft incentive they could implement without messing up a bunch of edge cases. But I suspect they will just leave it at Look Out, Sir! for now.
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1 minute ago, Tonhel said:
Lol, yeah you are correct, but isn't it a bit sad that the threat of a foot hero is so low, that you can just ignore it. It's even more humilating for a Chaos Lord 🤣
Seems to me that either it gets focus fired or it gets ignored. Not really sure how you get out of that dilemma.
More to the point, I also think that if heroes were so good that you would never prioritize normal troops over them, people would be complaining about how hero hammer is too strong instead. Really, overall I think it's quite nice that normal troops are often the deciding factor, rather than heroes.
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2 minutes ago, Tonhel said:
Again a named character :-D, would love to see them as a more generic Witch hunter option that can specialize verus wizards, daemons, undeath and etc.. .
I more or less agree, but if the "single guy" provides a good buff it probably will be more interesting to kill it instead of the bigger units. You probably wouldn't kill the foot hero for the damage output, but for the buff the foot hero provides.
Yeah, no idea why they decided to give us three different witch hunter units and then made them all unique characters.
I don't actually know if heroes getting sniped in melee will be a big concern in 4th. It's hard to predict how the interactions will play out. I can definitely see myself making the decision of trying to wipe out an infantry block on a 4+ save rather than trying to deal with a 3+ save on a hero model. Even more so if "anti-hero" is less common than "anti-infantry" or "anti-cavalry" melee troops, because that also changes target priority pretty significantly. And, of course, regular units are better at capturing objectives, and that's what wins games in the end.
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2 minutes ago, Beliman said:
Let's wait and see. The system already supports specializations, USR are so open that each heroe or special/magical weapon could be really unique and interesting without being crazy. As an example:
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#DuelistHeroe:
- USR: Anti-Heroes (mortal).
- Parry (ability). Passive/ Fighting Phase: Can't be hit with a better roll of 4+.
Even artifacts and weapons can be really unique with that.
I like running the ven Densts in Cities for that reason. You gotta respect damage 4 attacks against wizards, no matter who you are. Using Anti-X for similar abilities on melee heroes should help make them a threat without just invalidating melee infantry. Actually, 3" combat range should remove a lot of that concern, since concentrating that much hitting power into a single guy is no longer a big advantage vs. infantry blocks.
A Chaos Lord with Anti-Infantry (Double Damage) should definitely feel suitably epic.
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#DuelistHeroe:
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3 minutes ago, Tonhel said:
There you have it. It's all about named characters.
I use Chaos Lord as example as that is the most obvious one, but the Soulblight Vampire lord is also a good example and it's not only about being to weak. Its about the usefullness of foot heroes in game, besides being a buff token and how it will be changed in 4th.
In AoS 3 all of them are more or less clones in combat prowness. The only difference are the buffs they provide. But basically broadly taken all non named foot heroes have more or less the same damage output and survivability.
As I said, I think the discussion would benefit from a separate thread, since nothing about the strength of melee brawler heroes in 4th ed is currently known.
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11 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:
Well small shift. How we think Seraphon are gonna be handled between Starborne & Coalesced? Looking at Blades of Khorne it feels like they’re gonna keep that flavor.
So my guess is Battle traits split between the 2.
starborne: “Beamed down, Deploy units into the Celestial Realm to be summoned by Slann or Star priest keyword units.”(wee bit more restrictive than Stormcasts who can pop units down anywhere instead as they combo’d their traits for it)
”Ethereal, all infantry & cavalry units gain the Ethereal trait.(all Hits against them become 4+ & gain a 6+ Ward)
Coalesced: Bites & Scaly skin are back for extra attacks & saves to the big bois.
(also saw the green highlight conversation in rumors. I say it’s just color coding. It’s on too many different Warscrolls to have any significance)
Do you mean in the eventual battletome or in the index? Because I am not 100% sure they will get their two subfactions in the index.
I don't see a huge barrier for them to have one battle trait that basically goes like this, though:
"A Seraphon army can be COALESCED or STARBORN. If COALESCED, then melee buffs. If STARBORN, then magic or whatever."
Did they tell us yet if they are cutting back on summoning? If so, maybe Starborn will get a new focus, because as I understand it summoning is currently their "thing".
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21 minutes ago, Tonhel said:
Can you give an example? As my Chaos Lord, who I think should be able to fight a lot of different opponents gets his ass kicked by almost everything.
Edit: Imo he is a master in hiding and avoiding combat. Making the gods really proud....
You can find a lot of solid unique melee heroes in AoS. Off the top of my head, I like Sigvald, the Light of Eltharion, Kurdoss and Radukar the Beast.
For generics, there are fewer of them. The Ogor Tyrant is pretty good. A Megaboss on foot is certainly pretty fighty. The FEC Royal Decapitator is pretty scary, too. But in general, you will find few generic normal-sized dudes on 32mm bases who are worthy anything in combat. I think there are a few more in Fyreslayers.
EDIT: I would appreciate if we opened a separate "griping about how chaos lords are too weak" thread, by the way.
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15 minutes ago, cyrus said:
Ratogre or Jezzail ???
I'm going to say it's all ogre.
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2 hours ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:
I envy anyone who can knock out a good paint job in such a short time-frame! My record for a single model would be a couple of days. I'm such a plodder... slow but steady.
Haha, thanks. Personally, I don't always speed paint models (I do like to take my time most of the time), but I think it can be a good exercise when you are practicing composition for your paint jobs. I think the secret to good looking speed painting is to decide which details to focus on, and which to leave sketchy. Honestly, the hardest part about it is letting go of your perfectionism.
WIth Dagnai here, I really just wanted to check if the colour scheme works. Since I am planning to paint some Stormcast with the new edition, I wanted to see my idea for drybrush bronze was viable. The metallics here are just bronze paint over brown, and I didn't do a lot to enhance them, because I want to be able to knock out those Stormcast quickly when the time comes. I skipped quite a few details like gauges and trims on here, but I think the effect is still good, overall. If you look at areas like the axe blade, it's pretty obvious that the aim was to go fast.
I focused most of my effort into the coat, actually. Traditional layering techniques, but rough so that I can go fast and not worry about blending.
Putting some extra work into the face of the miniature also allowed me to be really sloppy in other areas. There are a bunch of tubes on the model which are just painted with a mix of all the inks I had on my palette after shading the coat. Dagnai's gloves and collar are a one-coat contrast paint job. The straps on this chest are not supposed to be metallic, I think, but whatever, I already had bronze paint ready. All of this is just not that noticeable because I put in the work to direct attention to he face instead.
I think painting some quick details is pretty valuable for speed painting. Like on this mini, I painted the eye and lens and spent some time on the visible skin. And since I already had whites and skin tones (as well as a small brush) out, I decided to paint his little scroll, as well. Took maybe 5 minutes to do all that but I think it adds a lot.
As a side note, just realized that this guy was the last Cursed City hero I still had unpainted, as well.
I painted some of them in a classic style and experimented a lot on others, but they are cool collection of weirdos. Very fun set overall.
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I did Cursed City Dagnai as a palate cleanser. Quick speed paint, 2-3 hours.
I also used him as a test piece for my planned Stormcast scheme.
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Just now, Tonhel said:
Every foot character is watered down in AoS the game.
Gotrek is pretty solid.
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6 minutes ago, Tonhel said:
The problem is that lorewise, Vampire Lords and Chaos lords aren't generic at all. They are killing machines, but now they are units that avoide combat.
I don't think that's true anymore for vampires in AoS. At least not to the extent it was in WHFB.
I would like to see vampires be a bit more fighty, but they are already on a 3+ save and heal from combat. I don't really see a need to up their melee pofiles to the point that they need to be 200+ points, personally. They are already really good units.
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16 minutes ago, Flippy said:
Based on WHFB? With the right setup (Blood Dragons bloodline) you had a killing machine like no other, save perhaps a Chaos Lord. Slaughtering whole blocks of infantry in single activation was not uncommon. Think Megaboss on Maw-krusha level of melee threat with some magic abilities on top of that.
I'd love something like that for Radukar the Beast, but wouldn't petsonally expect it from the likes of Kritza or a generic Vampire Lord.
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24 minutes ago, Marcvs said:
My bet is: same profile as now with +1 wound, weapon profile: 5/3+/3+/-1/2
As someone without any priming in what a vampire should be from WHFB, that seems about right to me. It seems like this kind of vampire would be a serious threat to a group of normal human vampire hunters, but they would still have a shot at taking it down.
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4 minutes ago, Ejecutor said:
40 pounds in the end.
Just about the price I paid on Ebay around 4 years ago.
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1 hour ago, Lucentia said:
Do I think melee foot heroes have historically been a weak spot in AoS? Yes, certainly, I think that's a fair assessment. Do I think the solution to that is to make every random priest or wizard with 'Blood' in its name into Conan the Barbarian? Probably not. Let's see what vampire lords actually look like before jumping to conclusions.
Thanks for saying it, because I also don't really see the problem with the Slaughterpriest. Seems to me that between his attack profile, prayer and ability he has a chance to take down a Kroxigor. But after all, he is just a Khorne priest. I certainly wouldn't expect any random priest to take down a melee elite. Especially one like Kroxigors, which are slow bruisers that can't pick their engagements and need to absolutely wreck when they get in.
I would like to see dedicated melee units be morw viable in 4th. But I don't see a need for every priest or wizard to also have an inflated attack profile. Even in Khorne, you need to leave yourself room for the actual melee heroes.
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Zenestra no longer WIP:
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The Rumour Thread
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
I think he looks pretty neat, but the brown-on-brown paint job is not doing him any favors.
Also, someone needs to tell Skaven how telescopes work.