[The Rumour Thread]

Archaon does not get the allegiance abilities from the other Chaos armies, is that correct?

[AoS 3rd - Idoneth Deepkin discussion]

12 hours ago, vinnyt said:

Eidolon is always on the brink of being a Big Damage Dealer but never really makes it. Maximizing his output with Fuethan and possibly all out attack will put you on 2srr1/2s/-2/3 with the big spear, 2rr1/2s/-1/1 with the little spear and then the fish attacks. That's pretty much the most he can do and it is a LOT but not quite mawkrusha level. 

His main utility (IMO) is the ability to do moderate to severe damage and then retreat and charge into ideal targets. He doesn't solo big stuff but rather goes in with a shark unit and kill it together. 

Retreat and charge of 12" flying is unreal.

Also his healing ability and ward just got a bit better now that the FAQ came out.

I just started finishing off my IDK, can;t wait to get some games in.

[Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors]

That's amazing. Fulminators come on down.

[Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors]

8 hours ago, SoWJordan said:

Hey Chronos!

I wanted to start off by saying thanks for the kind words about us/our show - we're trying our best to rep the Canadian scene well! As a fan of our content I just wanted to clarify my intentions about the comments/discussions we've had about Stormcast, and the points you've mentioned.

First off, as a general blanket statement I didn't mean to imply that any units were grossly overpowered/undercosted or anything when referring to SCE being 'very strong', nor did I want to be derogatory about the army. Like you mention I play Lumineth as well and I would say they are also very strong! I definitely didn't mean any of my comments as complaints, or with the inference that I felt any of the units should be nerfed, have their pts increased, or that the army shouldn't be good at anything.

At this point with AoS I collect/play so many armies that I don't view the game through the standpoint of one specific army, and aim to be fair/impartial in my opinions & comments. That said, I LOVE Stormcast as an army (particularly once I had an idea for how to customize the army hobby-wise) so never meant to disparage the army or anyone who plays it.

In the batrep you mention my goal was to highlight the areas of strength in the faction, not to tear them down but merely to highlight them to hopefully help players the community adjust to a new tome easier - I 100% agree with your comments about needing to adjust your perspective & tactics (and even lists) in response to new battletome or changes in the meta. One of the big goals of our channel is to help prepare those interested in tournament play in AoS, as learning opposing armies can be one of the biggest challenges when starting out - when I was starting there were almost no battle reports featuring the lists I would be seeing when going to events, so we wanted to help fill that gap.

Regarding my comments about Longstrikes and your comparison between them and Sentinels; I again did not mean anything as a complaint about the unit. Playing a similar roles, Longstrikes do outperform 30 Sentinels with power of Hysh, with Sentinels only matching or eclipsing them when considering Lambent Light (generally requiring a combination of 3 spellcasts - and we all know how reliable spells can be at times). I actually think Longstrikes are maybe even slightly harshly pointed for their fragility and weaknesses. All that said, I think the main thing I aimed to highlight with Longstrikes are their 'ease of use' for players to be aware of - there's almost no fail points in the application of their firepower when they're on the board. Regardless, in the end I think Longstrikes are completely fine as is.

The main point I did highlight as a potential concern was Thunderbolt Volley - I do think it is potentially too strong/problematic on my early experience with the army (I admittedly have only played 8 games with them now after the GT). Am I calling for its immediate removal or FAQ? Not at all, but I do think its worth highlighting as something the game designers should keep a close eye on - it is very strong. Again, I'd say the same thing of the Sentinels ability to ignore LoS - I play no favorites!

In the end, I just wanted to clarify my comments to avoid any unintended derogatory sentiment towards the army - so I hope you know that I do not hate the army nor want it to be nerfed into the ground or any such thing. In addition (lol) I've got nothing but love and appreciation for your time and consideration of our content!

 

Hey Paul!

As Chronos first said the Incantor is a great unit and was a strong consideration for the list, to explain my choice and respond to your - justified - thoughts on the list overall its worth considering the context of my choices for the event itself:

- This was a small GT (sub 30 players) with what I expected to be a HEAVY Destruction/Combat presence (indeed 10/26 were destro with another 8 being nearly pure combat armies). Good reasons to go Stormkeep/Hallowed Knights.
- Of those there were 4 SoB players, and I knew to expect at least 2 of the players bringing them to be fighting on top tables. I fought and beat 1, but didn't get the chance to play Yury who won the event. Further good reasons for Stormkeep/Hallowed Knights.
- I expected very few 'Magic Dominant' armies, and also knew the venue had lots of LoS block terrain, so I had little fear of casters picking off Gardus or my other heroes early.

With all those in mind I felt the Arcane tome Relictor would replace the Knight Incantor well as a caster for Celestial blades/mystic shield, and I didn't 'NEED' the auto-unbind. Additionally the Relictor brought the 2+ Bless Weapons prayer, and the extended range as another potential hero from which to trigger Thunderbolt Volley. In the context of this event the second Lord Relictor definitely felt like he provided more value - and in hindsight it was definitely the right decision based on my matchups!

In large part, Stormkeep was also the right call and provided much more value to me/my games than Scions would have (which I think is predominantly the better choice at larger/more varied events).

Also worth noting that prior to list submission I had played 1 game with SCE (the one vs IJ) where I wasn't forced to rely on many dominion units because of my limited collection. I wouldn't claim its a masterful list that can podium at any event - missions and matchups in the final rounds are SO impactful in AoS 3 as Stormkeep does have some significant weaknesses.

All in all, I think it was definitely the right list for the event, and I had a blast playing it - I hope I was able to shed some light on its perceived faults!

Anyways, cheers - keep up the awesome content!

- Jordan

Hey Jordan, thanks for the awesome reply.

It seems I read into what you guys were saying a little too much or in the wrong way. I think my mindset was, after watching your last two tournament recaps, that here's 3-4 guys who are obviously really great at the game, placing 4-1 and 5-0 and it seemed like to me you were saying the damage was too easy, not to be careful it's too easy. So that's my bad on the misinterpretation.

Also I found it funny that your Seraphon player(I'm bad with names...) is 5-0 the last two tournaments with probably a mean list and here you guys are talking about Stormcast being maybe too good? But again obviously you've clarified you're talking moreso about TV being the problematic part so again that was maybe my mix up in what you were saying.

I'd like to say that I wasn't trying to say you were the ones wanting them nerfed into the ground, but there has in general been talk of Stormcasts' good units getting nerfed especially with the December FAQ so that's why I brought it up.

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In the batrep you mention my goal was to highlight the areas of strength in the faction, not to tear them down but merely to highlight them to hopefully help players the community adjust to a new tome easier - I 100% agree with your comments about needing to adjust your perspective & tactics (and even lists) in response to new battletome or changes in the meta. One of the big goals of our channel is to help prepare those interested in tournament play in AoS, as learning opposing armies can be one of the biggest challenges when starting out - when I was starting there were almost no battle reports featuring the lists I would be seeing when going to events, so we wanted to help fill that gap.

Just watching your channel in general this has helped me a lot as someone who got into AoS just before Covid hit and am just starting to play a lot of games now, because you're absolutely right. I had a pretty good idea of how to fight Archaon Tzeentch due to your batreps but going in blind against giants was rough.

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The main point I did highlight as a potential concern was Thunderbolt Volley - I do think it is potentially too strong/problematic on my early experience with the army (I admittedly have only played 8 games with them now after the GT). Am I calling for its immediate removal or FAQ? Not at all, but I do think its worth highlighting as something the game designers should keep a close eye on - it is very strong. Again, I'd say the same thing of the Sentinels ability to ignore LoS - I play no favorites!

You're obviously much more experienced and a better player than myself, so you're probably right. I just find in this meta with a lot of power-pieces that to me it's just another power-piece. Add in talk of Fulminators getting a points bump and it does seem a bit like Stormcasts good pieces are getting adjusted RIGHT AWAY, and (someone else already brought this up in earlier pages) but other power pieces can last a year or more. I guess we will see what happens in December!

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In the end, I just wanted to clarify my comments to avoid any unintended derogatory sentiment towards the army - so I hope you know that I do not hate the army nor want it to be nerfed into the ground or any such thing. In addition (lol) I've got nothing but love and appreciation for your time and consideration of our content!

Even if I did complain about what you guys talked about, I don't think anything you said was derogatory or that you hate the army! You gave an in depth look and I'm somewhat biased so disagreed with your opinion.

Not to sound like I'm a promoter, but you're content is awesome and everything you're doing with your channel is great. It's my go to for batreps and to learn nuances of the game as it's IMO the best place for a competitive look and just such good production value!

On a side note, I'm in the west GTA but I think you've scared me off of going into X-planet(I think you've mentioned that FLGS) as it seems like the meta is really strong/amazing players.

Thanks again for the reply.

[Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors]

16 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

That is... very strange. I guess "no plan survives contact with the enemy" isn't as universal a wargamer mantra as I thought it was.  Sounds like these lads wanted the game to go exactly how it would in their mind. 

Yeah, I don't know. The guys on that channel are really good players with a lot of good insight.

I think maybe the impression I'm getting with the Stormcast "hate" is that the army is too straightforward? For instance with Lumineth or First Prince type armies, the player probably feels like a big brain player because there are a million little rules and when you get all those interactions together and have a really strong army it seems justified, whereas Stormcast have strong scrolls and not a ton of little interactions to make things good. So it seems 'too easy' for a Stormcast player to use the army so therefore shouldn't have the same strength, or something. Like, it is not 'earned'.

Thunderbolt Volley is a command ability, boom, done. Gardus just give a 12" 5++ rather than Teclis having a spell that interacts with his special rules to give 18" 5++. Sentinels cast a spell for extra mortals and then can just shoot over things, meanwhile Lord Relictor Translocating Longstrikes into place and then Thunderbolting is a bit trickier and that's also offside?

Anyway, after two years of painting up and exploring a bunch of different armies at different strengths and having finally settled on Stormcast, it just really has started to bug me when I hear all the complaining, yet see so many other armies with powerful pieces and bags of tricks. Plus SoB.

 

[Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors]

23 minutes ago, readercolin said:

Giants is mostly a DPS check army.  Stormcast can handle the DPS check, provided that you bring one or two of the standard heavy hitters (longstrikes/judicators, annihilators, fulminators, protectors).  Even if they go ahead and mystic shield, finest hour, and all out defense on various units, you can still punch through a giant a turn if you focus it.  If you can take 1 down before they can respond, you are in a fairly decent position.  If you can take 2 down, they are going to struggle to hold objectives against you, or pull off their battle tactics.  Then, even if they destroy your hammer units, you should be able to secure enough victory points to take the game.

That being said, this does mean that you are basically required to bring some of those heavy hammer units, and you can't reliably beat them if you decide you want to run one of the more typical durable/grindy setups.

Yeah focusing is probably the way to go. I have to get better at screening as well.

On another note, I just finished watching the bat rep at Season of War between a list similar to the one above against a double mawa-krusha list and the Stormcast won.

I like the guys a lot(being fellow Canadians) but it was... interesting to hear them talk(complain) about Stormcast so much when both these guys are super competitive and play things like double maw-krusha Ironjaws and Lumineth with a bunch of Sentinels.

I mean, in my game against Host Arcanmum Tzeentch with Archaon and Kairos(really underpowered list there), my opponent just sat Kairos within range of my Longstrikes, so of course I killed him. Even without TV I would have killed him turn one. I don't see how it's Stormcasts' issue when the opponent is going to just put his 4+ save monster within range. If you want to castle up and get all your buffs off as Lumineth turn one, it's not my problem if you are going to have to leave you 740 point god model within range.

I'm just really surprised by good players not feeling like they need to counter-play and change their tactics around as new armies come out.

I also can't believe a Lumineth player would complain about another strong shooting unit that isn't even as good.

Do people really want Stormcast nerfed so they aren't good at anything?

*Edit I should also note that in a previous tournament, the Lumineth player lost Teclis turn 1 but still ended up winning the game... Just a weird take all around.

[Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors]

30 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Yes the Incantor is a key unit any time you're not trying to play for an alpha strike

Jordans list is (imo) a worse version of Hallowstrike

It's pretty tough for me to not include the Incantor making lists now, I think it might be more important than a Relictor now.

Any ideas or thoughts on taking on giants? It almost seems like you have to go one drop or get a super alpha from Annihilators/Raptors if you have to go first.

[Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors]

I wonder if it would be better to have the Knight Incator in this list in case you can't go first to stop any sniping of Gardus?

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4 hours ago, mojojojo101 said:

Played my first game with the new book last night, just against a friend who is new so we forgot a fair amount of stuff. Overall was pretty happy with how it went although I did have to grind out the VPs to win in the end.

My list was:

Scions (Celestial Vindicators)

Lord-Relictor / Lord-Castellant / LA on Tauralon / Knight-Incantor

3x 5 Libs

6 Longstrikes / 4 Fulminators

His list:

FEC (Blisterskin)

AAR / AKoTG / AKoZD / Infernal Courtier

6 Flayers / 2x3 Flayers

Battleplan was Savage Gains.

I was 2 drop, went first, used Thunderbolt Volley to shoot off the Zombie Dragon, wiggled about a bit and dropped the Liberators in to screen / claim objectives. I should probably have gone for the Terrorgheist though because he got his spell off, ran 22'', charged another 11'' and managed to drop right in a gap, killed my Knight Incantor, ate 2 Fulminators, piled in again and ate another one, luckily Unleash Hell and the last Fulminator had him down to 9 wounds.

Turn 2 he won priority, took the double, used the big unit of Flayers to kill half the Longstrikes, who killed 3 back, the TG then massively whiffed and couldn't kill the last Fulminator who, combined with the Castellant who had got dragged in on his second pile in turn 1, brought him down. My turn I TP'd the Longstrikes out of combat and killed a smaller unit of Flayers to get my battle tactic.

After the bloodbath of the first two rounds the game went the total opposite direction and pretty much nothing else died, got the AAR with the last Fulminator and he cleaned up 2 of the Liberators, but the two Lords in particular just refused to die and the Infernal kept bringing back Flayers everywhere.

Ended the game at the end of turn 4 when I won the priority roll and the FEC wouldn't have been able to secure enough points to get the win. Got the win 29-23.

Overall I like this list a lot, I think I just need to play it out a lot more. Made too many silly little mistakes especially with my positioning.

Nice list and good game. I just got back from a couple games and the Fulminators were my MVPs, too bad you lost them early.

I only ended up playing two games and the first was Archaon Tzeentch with Kairos, savage gains.

We were both 8 drops and he finished first so he took first. My Longstrikes were placed kind of center of my deployment and in range of Kairos, and he was probably nervous of them so kept Archaon off to my left. He did his buff spells and I Voided Mystic Shield on Kairos. Moved up and took both side objectives and summoned more screamers and scored 7.

My turn, I knew Kairos was the lynch-pin so I TV'ed him down to about 4 wounds left. I kept one unit of Fulms in the sky and brought them down behind Kairos and 10 Acolytes. I charge 2 Fulms into a bunch of the screamers and magister on the right objective and moved up a bit on the left, blocking any moves by archaon with positioning.

Totally blew away Kairos with the Longstrikes, and then re-rolled the 9 inch charge into the Acolytes killing all 10 and taking his back objective. Got 8 points. With Bring it Down on Kairos.

Didn't get the double, so he needed to chase the 2 Fulms in his back lines with Archaon, and they survived with 3 wounds left. he couldn't move much and his magic phase was lackluster without Kairos. He did score 7 but thinkgs were going my way. He got another 7 points.

My turn I believe I sniped both his Blue Scribes and Magister with the Longstrikes. I think I finished off most of the screamers and got my Vindictors on the points to take it with conquer scoring me 7.

Still missed the double as it would probably be over, but the Fulm who was in combat with Archaon I retreated to the edge of the objective so he had to chase me. At this point I believe he had Archaon, the Sorc Lord, 3 Screamers on the left objective and a few left on the right. He summoned 10 Blues to take the left objective for conquer. He scored 5, killed the fulminator, I still had four left.

Bottom 3 I believe I moved up 2 Fulminators to charge Archaon but he redeployed 5 inches, which led me to make a mistake in that I didn't move my Longstrikes up in the movement phase and then they were out of range to shoot! I failed the charge on Archaon, but had the last two Fulms in position to counter charge once Archaon charged those other Fulms. Was able to kill enough Blue Horrors to take the left side objective and score Aggressive Expansion, scoring 7.

Still didn't get the double, but he charged the Fulminators, killing one. That's about it, tried to get the objective for killing a Battleline unit but wasn't able to. This was pretty much it, but we played my turn 4.

I was able to Translocate my Relicotor and move the remaining unit of Raptors into his territory for Savage gains. Then Took Archaon down a to something like 5 or 6 wounds left, charged in the remaining Fulminators and killed Archaon. We called it there. Fun game and great opponent, I can't really believe my plans came together, but killing Kairos I knew would be key.

Second game, there's not much to say. I played Giants for the first time and got doubled turn 2, so really had no chance and got stomped. Made a lot of dumb mistakes, but I didn't know what the giants would be like. I even forgot to TV on my first hero phase... ugh.

With AoD and the Latern from the Castellant on a unit of Fulminators, they were able to tank a gargant only taking 3 wounds in two round of combat. I did roll well though!

Take away from the Sons game, would be I should have killed his baby giants, and not forgotten Thunderbolt Volley, and also played much more conservatively after being given the first turn. He was a 2 drop, so I think if I specifically played him again, trying to get to a one drop would be beneficial, and taking some Annihilators. I also think a unit of 4 Fulminators or 4 Concussors would be really good, not just two.

Anyway, fun couple games, thanks for all the advice.

[Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors]

Alright, I have my three gamer tomorrow and here's what I've settled on if anyone has any last minute advice!

Hammers of Sigmar, Scions of the Storm, Pillars of Belief, Thunderbolt Volley.

Lord Relictor - General, Mirror, Translocate, High Priest

Lord Castellant - Arcane Tome, Chain Lightning

Knight Incantor - Lightning Blast

3x2 Fulminators

2x3 Aetherwings

2x5 Vindictors

1x6 Raptors - Longstrikes

I chose to go with the Castellant to try to get two units of Fulminators on 2+ just to keep them living longer. Aetherwings and Vindictors make a castle around the Longstrikes(if I deploy them) and can teleport the Aethwings around as needed.

I am considering dropping the Castellant in order to take 2x10 Skinks for some more chaff, but don't think I will this time around. I sit at 99 wounds and 7 drops.

 

[Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors]

14 minutes ago, PJetski said:

T&N in the last round is rough. If it was the first round it might be okay because that is when you will likely be facing the weakest opponent you will see at the event.

I think in this case I would avoid a list that relies on Scions, like 3x3 Grandhammers

Yeah, thanks for the perspective! Furiously building Fulminators.

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46 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Which round is Tooth & Nail? 

What is the rest of your list? If you have sufficient shooting you can probably force the enemy to come fight your Grandhammers.

It's the last round.

Rest of the list is K Incantor, L Relictor, Imperatant with 6 Longstrikes, 5 Vindictors, and 2x10 Skinks.

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Found out the three Battleplans I'll be playing this weekend at a tournament and unfortunately for me Tooth and Nail is in there. My plan was to run three units of Grandhammers, but that battleplan is really going to hurt. Of course it will also hurt summoning armies, but I'm not sure how to navigate having to not be able to use Scions.

I could switch all three units for 4 Fulminators and another 3 Raptors, but then I kind of feel like I should just go with it and try to learn to play around it. Grandhammers are just SO slow and they won't benefit from half their warscroll.

Kinda bummed out, tbh.

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53 minutes ago, lare2 said:

You and me both. I played around with this list for a bit and in previous games, not having feet on the ground really hurts. I like 3 basic battleline here: 1 to protect the castle and 2 to protect a wing each and to hunt objectives. I was just never really happy with the chaff SCE could offer. Aetherwings could work in this role as well but I'm happy to pay the 10pts extra for skinks. 

Depends who I'm up against. There's only so much you can keep up in space. The grandhammers have to go up and if someone can threaten my castle 1st turn, I'm more concerned about the Longstrike. There aren't many armies that have that kinda reach in the 1st turn though. Lumineth, definitely. 

It's a great combo. Along with the Relictor's damage spell and the imperator's shooting, they're a great way to cause chip damage and to deter if anything gets too close to your castle. 

Nope. They can only go in the generic ones. I ran them in Warlord with all my heroes. The grandhammers went on hunters and the rest went in redemption. Having low drops is a trap. I want to be able to counter deploy - see where my targets are and deploy accordingly. 

Worst thing in my mind for this list is Tooth and Nail. That mission right there... it'd really do it over. 

This is all great, I'm definitely thinking along the same lines. I got my skinks! I have my 3-gamer on the 27th so have a few things to get built, I'm excited to try everything out. I'm literally taking the same list, unless I last minute switch another 3 Raptors in instead of Grandhammers, but I think I'll save that against the really top tier lists.

Great conversation!

[Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors]

Well, FLGS had three boxes of Dracoths and I took home two, so maybe they'll be even more more valuable with the dragons going up.

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28 minutes ago, lare2 said:

They're great. I try to bring them down so that they'd be able to charge the Longstrike's target, in case they fail. The Longstrikenever did though so it's good to make sure they can also charge something else. They come down 1 unit per turn. The fear of them coming in really messes up the enemy's movement for the 1st 3 turns. My biggest concern is the 1st turn drop though as there's a potential that they might only be able to target chaff. Hasn't happened to me yet though. With the Longstrike being at the back with the heroes and Vindictors, deleting things, they have to come and try to deal with you. As they come though, they're just getting massive chunky hammers dropped on them.

Yep, pretty much. I'm actually not that big of a fan of our standard battleline. 5 of anything will die... it may as well be skinks. They did the job great, zoning out my flanks and rear. They were generally ignored and zoomed in, in the later game to claim objectives. 

Worked great. Teleported them 1st turn to the far corner. This covered a lot of his army. I did run TV - it's super powerful. The combination of Aetherwings and TV were what popped the VLoZD 1st turn. My Longstrike never leave home without them. Plus, everyone seems to forget the birds are there. Even I did when the Longstrike's gaze turned elsewhere. Remembered late on though and Translocated the Relictor to them late game to score that Battle Tactic (forget its name - 2 units in enemy turf).

This is great, thanks! I've been trying to fit in more bodies in the battleline slot AND the Aetherwings and I just was never comfortable with only two units of Libs or Vinds, but I never considered the Skinks! That really fills an area of need big time in our similar lists. I'm going to my FLGS today and grabbing a box.

I'm curious, do you keep you Lord Imperatant in the sky until your movement phase turn 1? If so, one of the things I've worried about is dropping him and him getting sniped off turn two or three before the other two units of Grandhammers get dropped, but I suppose he is pretty tough with 7 wounds and would be -1 to hit if he can get Look Out Sir. And I guess if they are shooting at him they aren't shooting more valuable units.

I also really like having Lightning Blast and Chain Lightning to splash some mortal wounds around if you aren't going to Mystic Shield, which in this army isn't really that important I guess.

Last question is, the Skinks can go in the Redemption Battalion?

 

[Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors]

5 hours ago, lare2 said:

Good game last night against my bogey opponent, Soulblight. Got the win and happy with how my list is developing. It's pretty much everything I wanted when moving over to SCE - an elite force which just smashes face, fits comfortably into 1 box, and (importantly) doesn't destroy my back when playing. 

6 Longstrike are just oppressive though - point and click every turn. 1st turn, wiped out a VLoZD with mystic shield and amulet, 2nd turn Radukar, 3rd Mannfred. I try building lists without them but always seem to rotate back round to them. List below:

Knights Excelsior 

Battalions: Warlord, Redemption, Hunters

Knight Incantor - Lightning Blast 

Lord Imperatant - Arcane Tome, Chain Lightning 

Lord Relictor - High Priest, Translocation 

Vindictors x5 (ordinarily these would be libs but I couldn't be bothered to dig them out)

Skinks 2x10

Grandhammers 3x3

Aetherwings x3

Longstrike x6 

 

Hey, similar to the lists I've been thinking minus the skinks.

You found using the 3x3 Annhilators worked pretty well? Did you drop each unit per turn and it felt like you were able to really pick their fights?

I'm curious about the skinks, were they used as mobile chaff and screens? And did teleporting the Aetherwings work well? I'm guessing you had Thunderbolt Volley?

Grats on the win!

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1 hour ago, Lucur said:

General consensus seems to be 6 Raptors suffice to take out key targets with thunderbolt volley. Rather go for a second threat, ideally melee based, and fill the rest with support pieces and bodies.

Yeah, doing the math though it takes a lot to take out some key pieces.

First Prince, if I wanted to take out the Daemon Prince it can very likely take a combined amount of shooting from 9 Raptors.

Maw Krusha with a 3+/5++ will take on average the TV from 6, and shooting from another 9 to kill in one go.

Teclis as well would take a lot as he easily could have a 2+, although I think I could dispell his 5++.

You're probably right though, that it makes sense to diversify more, but with all the big baddies I would hate to almost kill one.

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I think after that giant post, I'm going to go with 6 and 3 Raptors instead of 3x3 Annihilators. Just gives so many options to take out key pieces in tough lists, although I don't know if that's too much for the tournament.

Has anyone tried using 9 Raptors? Did you make room for Aetherwings? Translocating them up in range for turn 1 could be worth it.

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@PJetski Really enjoying the Stormkeep videos!

@Erdemo86 Bastion looks great!

 

I wanted to get some advice on strategy and a little on list building as I've got my first mini tournament coming up, 3 games total. I also lost a game to my Khorne friend playing Feral Foray recently, which was partly me underestimating him, not knowing the scenario, and not screening properly. What I learned from that game is KEEP THE RAPTORS SAFE.

So what I'm thinking for the list is building around Grandhammers, as right now I have nine, and six Raptors with the basic hero contingent of Imperatant, Relictor, and Incantor, all in Scions. Here's the list:

Lord Relictor - General, Mirrorshield, Translocate, High Priest

Knight Incantor - Thundershock or Starfall

Lord Imperatant - Doggo friend

3 x 3 Grandhammer Annihilators

1 x 6 Vanguard Raptors w/ Longstrikes

3 x 5 Liberators w/Shields

Thunderstrike Volley.

This gets me to 1990 points and 87 wounds.

I've been going back and forth on trying to make this a one drop to counter any armies like Lumineth, but I feel like with the Incantor, I can set her up in range of Teclis or Kairos if they are one dropping and not worry as much about going second. This opens me up to be able to take Hunters on my three Grandhammers units which is big, and also grab a second artifact OR Holy Command. I am assuming it's possible to take an extra different Holy Command as it is an Enhancement, but if I'm wrong please let me know. If I took another Holy Command I would be very tempted to take Unleash Thy Hatred, but bringing back 5 Libs would be kind of nice too.

As for why I split the Grandhammers into units of three instead of having one unit of six, in the game against Khorne I took a unit of six and although they wiped out whatever they touched, they then got stuck up the board and affected little else the rest of the game. I'm thinking having units of three drop in every turn will let me react to threats/openings as they present themselves and also keep my opponents wondering. This Also maximizes their warscroll abilities.

The strategy is also to use the Grandhammers in conjunction with the Raptors, in that together they can guarantee to take out tough units in a turn(after the Thunderbolt turn), but really I feel the Raptors are the linchpin in that my opponent really has to react to them AND the Grandhammers ability to put damage where I need it.

Thanks to PJetski I've really come around on Libs, and they fit perfectly in here to provide durable screens(even though I love the Vindictor models).

I also haven't picked a Stormhost, as I can't really decide between CW, CV, or KE.

If I went with Knights Excelsior, that frees me up to use the 345 points from the Liberators, but I really need them as screens. What I could do is drop a unit of Libs and Annihilators and bring a Celestant Prime, but that does drop me in wounds, although I get the 4+ ward. Also I'd really lose out on damage unless I kept the Prime upstairs until turn 3, but I would be doing that with a unit of Grandhammers anyway...

With Celestial Warbringers, getting a reroll on the Vanguard Raptors is a nice bonus, and even rerolling a save or hit/wound on the Grandhammers is a nice bonus, but the Celestial Vindicators is also very nice and usually seems to make it so 9 or 10 attacks get all the way through to the save rolls.

Lastly, it is tempting to go Shock and Awe for the Trait, just to keep the Grandhammers around a little longer after they drop in if anything can attack back, but being able to almost guarantee Translocate on the Raptors might be too valuable, and also make endgame moves for objectives.

Anyway, if you've made it this far, thanks a lot. Any advice or thoughts is appreciated. I don't think it's going to be a hyper-competitive event, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Be'Lakor Teclis, Maw Krusha, etc. I feel like if I can take those big pieces out early, my path to victory will be much easier.

Quick edit for the Incantor, I figure to go with one of those spells because shes really just there for the dispell, and I don't think I really need + to wound in this army. Also my Grand Strategy would be Pillars of Belief.

[Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors]

So I ended up playing a game against Nurgle, which I lost, but it was a great game and close up until the end of turn 4 where I just made some mental mistakes. Super fun all around and a great learning experience.

I took:

Celestial Warbringers, Pillars of Belief, Thunderbolt Volley

Lord Relictor -General, A of Destiny, High Priest, Translocate

Knight Judicator

Knight Incator - Arcane Tome, Celestial Blades

Lord Imperatant

2x3 Annihilators

3x5 Vindictors

1x6 Vanguard Raptors/w Longstrikes

2000 points on the nose.

His list included GUO, Be'Lakor, Slopity, Spoilpox, 2x2 Beasts of Nurgle, 20 Plaguebearers, and 2x10 Plaguebearers to the best of my memory.

We played first blood. The highlight of the game for me was three Annihilators one-shotting Be'Lakor turn 2, I couldn't believe it, although he had already used his ability to shut down my Raptors for a turn. Raptors put in a lot of work other than turn two, I just saved TV until the next turn. Vindictors put up a pretty good fight in the middle objective but got slowly ground down, and the Annihilators were a great distraction, I think all six together took down Be'Lakor and then 20+ Plaguebearers which we was able to use to tie them up. Against Nurgle they did a lot of damage to themselves.

I was down by one going into turn 4, he won priority and was able to complete his objective and scored 5 points. Bottom 4 I picked Aggressive Expansion, which I easily would have completed as I had the KJ and hounds on an objective with only 3 PBs on it, and I Translocated the Raptors over to the other side with only Slopity on it(GOU was on the middle tied up by my Incantor). There were 11 plaguebearers who had finished off my Annihilators that could have made it into my raptors turn 5, but I elected to take a shot at the GUO which was not a good idea, even tough I rolled 5 6's to hit I still only did 9 wounds, so I really should have taken out the PBs because at this point he had nothing left except GOU, Slopity, 3 PBs and 11PBs although he would have summoned 10 more next turn.

Then, mistake number two, I charged the gryph hounds into the 3 other PBs and they killed one and I killed nothing in return, so I made myself lose the objective! Really dumb, but I think I just got over confident. Oh well.

I only scored one point, and we rolled off and he won priority, so I didn't really have a chance to come back.

Overall it was a super fun game, great opponent. I started back into Warhammer December of 2019, so to finally get an in person game in was really great(although I did play against my friend 10+ times). I cycled through more than a few armies, including Tzeentch and IDK, but I really like Stormcast.

Anyway, the Knight-Judicator didn't really do that much, so I will probably tweak my list to drop him, and honestly as much as I love Vindictors, 3x5 units of Liberators just frees up 45 points that I can then spend on 3 more Granhammer Annihilators, and I think that rounds out a pretty good all around army that can hold their own.

[Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors]

9 minutes ago, Chronos said:

So I have my first in person game tomorrow, possibly against Nurgle, and I'm trying to finalize my list but not to just specifically fight a certain army. I don't have any Dracoths. I'm thinking either to go Celestial Warbringers, or possibly Knights Excelsior depending on the list. Both would be Scions and both probably Pillars of Belief for the Grand Strategy.

For CW I'm thinking:

Leaders

Lord Imperatant

Knight Incantor - Celestial Blades

Knight Judicator w/Grpyh Hounds

Lord Relictor - General, High Priest, Mirror Shield

Units

2x3 Annihilators w/Grand Hammers

3x5 Vindictors - Battleline

1x6 Vanguard Raptors

 

If I went KE:

Leaders:

Lord Imperatant

Knight Incantor - Celestial Blades

Knight Vexilor - Meteoric Standard

Lord Relictor - General, High Priest, Mirror Shield

Units

2x3 Annihilators w/Grand Hammers

1x3 Annihilators w/Shields

2x5 Vindictors

1x6 Vanguard Raptors

 

I would take Thunderbolt Volley with both. I'm not sure if I should go for a true one drop, or go for another artifact/holy command.

Apologies that I accidentally posted only half done!

 

 

I just realized I can't actually do a true one drop as the lists are, so I guess I may as well go for a 4 drop for an extra artifact or holy command. I could also switch the Knight Vexilor out for a unit of 5 Vindictors and both would be exactly 2000 points.

Really not sure what to do!

[Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors]

So I have my first in person game tomorrow, possibly against Nurgle, and I'm trying to finalize my list but not to just specifically fight a certain army. I don't have any Dracoths. I'm thinking either to go Celestial Warbringers, or possibly Knights Excelsior depending on the list. Both would be Scions and both probably Pillars of Belief for the Grand Strategy.

For CW I'm thinking:

Leaders

Lord Imperatant

Knight Incantor - Celestial Blades

Knight Judicator w/Grpyh Hounds

Lord Relictor - General, High Priest, Mirror Shield

Units

2x3 Annihilators w/Grand Hammers

3x5 Vindictors - Battleline

1x6 Vanguard Raptors

 

If I went KE:

Leaders:

Lord Imperatant

Knight Incantor - Celestial Blades

Knight Vexilor - Meteoric Standard

Lord Relictor - General, High Priest, Mirror Shield

Units

2x3 Annihilators w/Grand Hammers

1x3 Annihilators w/Shields

2x5 Vindictors

1x6 Vanguard Raptors

 

I would take Thunderbolt Volley with both. I'm not sure if I should go for a true one drop, or go for another artifact/holy command.

Apologies that I accidentally posted only half done!

 

 

[Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors]

2 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

Each reserve unit outside a 1 drop battalion is it's own separate drop.

So if you have 5 units outside a battalion and 5 in a one drop battalion, your list is 6 drops, regardless of which units are in reserve and which are not.

Thank you very much.

[Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors]

Quick rules question:

If I'm playing Scions and I have say 5 units in deepstrike, and 5 in a unified battalion to place on the table, do I still have to go back and forth with the opponent in drops even with the deepstrike units or would I one drop my battalion and then say the rest is in reserve in order to have a one drop?